Adepticon Test List

[Nusquam]

While I may not be attending, I thought it would be a good exercise to make a list anyway.

 

Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1850pts)

• HQ (280pts)
  • Legion Centurion (140pts)

    Artificer Armour, Combat Shield, Cameleoline, Combi-Weapon, Infravisor, Power Weapon

    Consul, Independent Character, Legiones Astartes

    • Consul

      Praevian

      Cortex Controller and Designator

    • Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple (400pts)

      • Enhanced Targeting Array

        Cybernetic Resiliance, Cybernetica Cortex, Programmed Behaviour, Rage, Reactor Blast, Support Unit

      • Castellax

        Darkfire Cannon

      • Castellax

        Darkfire Cannon

        Wrecker

      • Castellax

        Darkfire Cannon

        Wrecker

  • Strike Captain Alvarex Maun (145pts)

    Independent Character, Legiones Astartes, The Bleeding Edge, Cameleoline

    • Master of the Legion

      Decapitation Strike

      Master of the Legion

• Troops (360pts)
  • Legion Tactical Squad (180pts)

    9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla

    Fury of the Legion, Legiones Astartes

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Power Weapon

  • Legion Tactical Squad (180pts)

    9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla

    Fury of the Legion, Legiones Astartes

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Power Weapon

• Elites (640pts)
  
  • Apothecarion Detachment (45pts)

    • Legion Apothecary

      Legiones Astartes

  • Mor Deythan Strike Squad (595pts)

    7x Combi-weapon(5 flamer, 2 Melta), Darkwing Storm Eagle, Searchlight, 3x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web, 9x Mor Deythan

    Fatal Strike, Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Machine Spirit, Outflank, Scout, Stealth

• Fast Attack (210pts)
  • Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (210pts)

    Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles

    Agile, Deep Strike, Missile Barrage, Supersonic

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    XIX: Raven Guard

Classic Bait and Switch style play. Praevian and Co infiltrate to get good LoS or Outflank if really needed. Maun and Apoth infiltrates with a Tac squad away from the Praevian, other one infiltrates where needed. Either they take the bait and get in close, in which case the two flyers deepstrike near Maun and are stuck between the Lightning, Mor Deythan and the Praevians unit. Lightning cracks any big transport and the Mor Deythan get at the gooey insides. The Praevian and Co ensure fire on any Deredeo or other high priority target. If the bait isn't taken then I'm already in advantageous positions due to infiltrate and my reserves can act as a QRF.

 

Thoughts?

 

Edit: Oh yeah, Apothecaries exist.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'm not sold on the Darkfire Cannons without Tank Hunter. S7 vs Armour 12 kinda sucks. Not sure how many Castellax you've got, but it looks like 3. That's 1 Glance a turn from range, assuming all of them hit. Sure, it makes it easier once you get in close, but I'm not sold on its effectiveness as opposed to an AL variant. It still amuses me how a marine in reflective camo capes suddenly makes the 12 metre tall monstrosities on either side of him disappear. For the purposes of tournaments, are you allowed to alter your build between matches provided you are still WYSIWYG, or do you have to declare which CombiWeapon and Power Weapon you are using? Why not give him Terminator Armour and a Power Maul so that he has a S7 Charge to put some additional hurt on enemy units as they can still Infiltrate without him. Sure, you then lose Stealth and Fleet, but really, it's not as though you'll be finding that much cover for them to benefit from it.

 

Alternatively, why not Vorax for the Scout move to ensure you get that much closer, and the loss of shooting from Fleet isn't exactly that much of an issue.

 

No Drop Pods for the Tacticals? That's basically an AV12 3HP void shield they've got.

 

Primaris Lightnings; not a fan of now that Deredeo's exist in 30K giving effective counters, and in 40K, the prevalence of flyers means that people are getting pretty good at being able to counter them on the top tables. A 2HP AV10 flyer that requires being able to shoot its entire payload isn't exactly that Spartan remover it looks on paper when it's Snap shot locked as has happened the last few times I've run it. 

 

What is Maun bringing to the list? A no Scatter Deep Strike for nothing (well, apart from the Primaris, but then it instantly kills itself because it can't Hover). He could do a first turn bringing on of the Mor Deythan if put with them if you drop a member, though. 

[Nusquam]

Praevians can't take terminator armor. I forgot to edit it so say combi-melta and power axe when I pasted from BattleScribe. Alpha Legion being able to take Tank Hunters doesn't help when I'm Raven Guard. It's 1.7 glances or a glance and possible pen. The idea with outflank and infiltrate is to get side shots on things. If it's really big the lightning can kraken it. I debated taking Thuddguns instead(which are almost certainly better), but I love me some big robots.

 

I like Vorax but when you can get T7 vs 6, a better armor save, an actual invulnerable save and access to better shooting for 10 points more its hard to justify Vorax outside Zone Mortalis. Stealth helps, but Castellax offer so much more. Vorax should have had rage over them but that's neither here nor there.

 

Tacticals are infiltrating to keep Maun on the table for his bonuses. A second tac squad keeps numbers on the board if I outflank the Castellax. I could pod him in with Mor Deythan but then they're out on their own and exposed, even with ablative AV12 HP3. This strategy ensures every thing is working in tandem, nothing is left alone, and maximizes all potential firepower into one devastating alpha strike on turn 2. If it were a drop pod based list with Tacs, Seekers in pods and Deathstorms then I would definitely consider Mor Detyhan in a pod with Maun.

 

Lightning can arrive behind the Darkwing to give it cover, likely a 4+ from being mostly obscured(+1) behind an intervening unit 5+, from a Deredeo and the Darkwing can jink for a 3+.

 

You can deepstrike in zooming mode, counting as having moved at combat speed.

 

Mauns warlord trait also allows me to reroll failed reserve rolls for anything deepstriking, so the Lightning and Darkwing. Plus his 18" no scatter bubble can put them both in position to do maximum damage, IE around flare shields, side armor, etc . Plus when he's on the table I can reroll failed Sieze rolls. That plus rerolling to determine who goes first from Decapitation Strike; Maun brings a lot to this army before the game even starts.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Missed the Terminator Armour bit on the pictures.

 

Playing AL theoreticals around with them, I've found that even then, against AV11 sides, that spending that much on Darkfire Cannons to take on Rhino's or basic Predators isn't worth the points put into them. The Blind bit would be good - but then again, non Walker vehicles aren't affected by it, and only a 50% Glance rate per hit against a Rhino and at 400pts is a bit crap, IMHO.

 

4x PE BS4 Darkfire (I'd drop the ETA, I don't think that it's worth it in my personal opinion) = 8 hits ish, and, 4 glances against AV11. Against AV12, that's 3. It's adequate, and dropping 3 HP off a Spartan is no mean feat (well, technically, because you're -1 Strength,, you're still having to roll a 6 against the FA), which gives you maybe 2 on a good day, but I honestly find it hard to justify that as the expense when it will have to pray to the gods of RNG to even kill a Rhino or Predator. 

 

With the Alpha Legion, giving them Tank Hunter, that turns into 6 glances, AV12 it becomes 4, and ensures what you shoot is dead. Even a Spartan, you have a pretty decent chance of dropping 3 in a single turn. Maybe I'm just being greedy (and RG have enough other tricks) due to the AL's tolerance, but I find that niche to be kind of out of the reach of the Castellax due to their points cost. Still, if you find they work (and 16 T7 2+ Wounds are enough), then they work; just my personal findings that you're spreading points quite thinly there (you have 95pts tied up in that side, after all).

 

Fair play on the Vorax. I've tried to get them used with AL with Infiltrate+Scout, but lacking Fleet on the Praevian meant they were still quite slow.

 

Maun; I'm still not convinced that the intention was for Uniques to take items not mentioned in their statblocks; might be worth double checking with the TO to ensure that it's legal.

 

In regards to the Tactical Squad; is there nowhere to squeeze in the Pod for the ablative shield and the redeploy keeping you with the initiative despite your opponent having the early upper hand? I appreciate that they have Infiltrate, and you're sacrificing that, but with 1 pod, and Maun (mounted in the Darkwing) you can bring them on from the 1st turn. It does sacrifice Maun's reroll of the Seize the Initiative, but you're rerolling trying to get that 6 - which you don't really want in a reserves list I find - you want to be coming on second I think then the reserves are taking the least amount of shooting phases. In your first turn, using that, you'd have the big infiltrating Robots, a Darkwing in hover mode having dropped off the Mor Deythan+Maun which has just combined to Assassinate the enemy hq and net you Slay the Warlord VP's, a Drop Pod with its attendant Marines inside, and an Infiltrating Marine Squad, leaving only the Primaris to come on after that.

 

In regards to the Lightning-Primaris however; it would be instantly destroyed; Deep Strike states you cannot move further with the exception of disembarkation, and that Zooming flyers (which it must be when it arrives, as it cannot hover) are automatically wrecked if they're forced to move less than 18" (as Deep Strike blocks that movement, that is exactly what will happen to it).

 

His Warlord trait is actually a little bit different; functionally the same but for the purposes of people reading, he allows flyers and drop pods to reroll failed reserves, not Deep Strikers (so no Terminators/Jump Packs/Jetbikes etc outside of a Transport). If you were to put him in a Darkwing first turn, there'd only be the Primaris benefitting. Still, that's a moot point - remove Maun, and you have to hope for a 2 rolls at a 1 in 6 chance of getting the Strategic Genius and wouldn't get first turn reserves. 

 

However, the Nightfall Vox doesn't work on the Lightning for above purposes, and being fair to the Storm Eagle baseline of the Darkwing, it's BIG, and the nose mounted ramp means it's still got a decent 6" move to get all those flamers into space regardless of scatter. I personally think he'll bring more to the list mounted in the Darkwing, even though his Warlord trait and Nightfall don't get properly used. First turn automatic reserves is BIG.

 

I do like the list, but there are some rough edges, I think - of course, I'm not a major RG player, simply that AL play reasonably similar in this style of play.

[Nusquam]

The idea is that combined with stealth/outflank I can get around flare shields. They also double as a forward unit the can always walk out and start punching things. If I wanted a strictly shooting platform then spamming rapiers would definitely do better. You bring up good points about their shooting, but I'm not taking them just for their shooting. Lot's of T7 wounds and S6 AP2 rage-fueled punching is to be had. Infiltrating(side armor shots or in front of an enemy vangaurd that would not like a handful of Castellax in front of) or outflanking(rear armor, backfield support units like rapiers) them ensures that they are applied to the part of my opponents list where they can do the most damage. Don't forget the ETA reduces cover saves by 1 in addition to increased BS. That plus potential preferred enemy can kill up to something like 6 havocs or 3 rapiers a turn that even in ruins only have a 5+ to rely on. Or coming up behind Thanatars or other automata and blinding them. It's not just armor they're going against.

 

The wargear on unique characters is new territory. But there is no 'Unique Character' rule preventing them from changing gear as that's counter to characters that have optional wargear. Only the 'Unique' rule telling us you can't have duplicates. So when a rule says 'Any Raven Guard Independent Character...' it means any RG IC. I don't see why not.

 

When a vehicle deepstrikes it counts as combat speed. It certainly didn't move 0 inches and didn't move more than 18". What we can infer is that it came down from high orbit and ended(for the sake of moving through a turn) wherever it deepstruck. If that doesn't count as minimum speed than I don't know what does. If boarding shields count as defensive grenades and allows you to throw them out of your shield's camera lens shoot them out that tiny grenade launcher then I see no reason that a deepstriking flyer doesn't count as having move the minimum speed when it comes down from orbit. They kept Deepstrike on all their flyers in all publications since 6th ed came out. If they didn't intend them to work they wouldn't be there. Should they ever lose the rule I can just fly on behind a perfectly deepstruck Darkwing. So there's no real loss either way.

 

Also Maun brings them in starting turn 2. Unless he's in a pod selected for the turn one DPA then he's still in reserves until turn 2, which there are no rolls; he comes in automatically. Great for Planetstrike though. I also don't want to give up a warlord VP if I can help it. If it weren't for the Predatory Strike rule, I would consider Maun in a vehicle, but with that and being able to reroll seize? Best chance of going first against 99% of opponents.

[Hesh Kadesh]

In regards to Primaris;

 

Did said Flyer move 18" or more? Can it hover? If the answer to both of those is 'no' then it is wrecked. Counting as having moved at combat speed for the purposes of shooting is not the same as having moved at 18" for the purposes of seeing whether you stall an wreck yourself.

 

I'm AFB but cannot check whether every single flyer, with or without Hover has Deep Strike. While I cannot see why they have that rule, personally, due to the rules causing you to turn into a lump of useless metal. There are enough occurences about FW not knowing the rules (the Cybertheurgy relic, the Stone Gauntlet/Polux, Master of the Legion, etc) to nake that another thing.

[Nusquam]

We'll have to agree to disagree because I've said all my thoughts on the matter.

[Sully ad Bellum]

We'll have to agree that Nusquam is right about his deep-striking Lightning. The Lightning has the Deep Strike special rule. Legions Astartes: Crusade Army List states at page 81 that "f using a Zooming Deep Strike [(the Lightning cannot Hover)], Flyers deploying via Deep Strike count as making a Zoom move and having moved 18" at Cruising speed (18") on the turn they arrive, but are not moved any further in the turn in which they are deployed."

 

Clear as the summer sun.

 

Also, has nothing whatsoever to do with Boarding Shields or the fact that a model equipped with a Boarding Shield counts-as being equipped with defensive grenades, which is equally clear (LA:CAL, p.89). Who cares whether the defensive grenades are actual grenades that become part of the model's warhead without having to modify its basic profile, or whether that camera-thingy on the Boarding Shield actually strobes erratically and emits dense smoke and thereby confuses folks? Doesn't matter, the model has defensive grenades. None of which has anything to do with Deep Striking Lightnings.

 

Ahem, sorry about that. I just don't understand all the ado about defensive grenades. I apologize if my tone seems dismissive of folks' sincerely-felt concerns on the subject. I am not so, and I think your opinions are all valid.

[Nusquam]

... whether that camera-thingy on the Boarding Shield actually strobes erratically...

I love everything about that.

[Hesh Kadesh]

We'll have to agree that Nusquam is right about his deep-striking Lightning. The Lightning has the Deep Strike special rule. Legions Astartes: Crusade Army List states at page 81 that "f using a Zooming Deep Strike [(the Lightning cannot Hover)], Flyers deploying via Deep Strike count as making a Zoom move and having moved 18" at Cruising speed (18") on the turn they arrive, but are not moved any further in the turn in which they are deployed."

 

Clear as the summer sun.

He is correct with that rule. I'd honestly forgotten about that rules summary page including the flyers, apologies Nusquam! Still, no Jink is a major PitA for the Lightning, and if there are multiple LoS to where you're deep striking it from Deredeo's it's not looking good.

 

Is it just facing 30K lists?

[Grazzlebaz]

I will be at Adepticon as well and I'd be more than happy to play against you :)

[Nusquam]

I will be at Adepticon as well and I'd be more than happy to play against you

I appreciate it, but I won't be attending. But do share your experiences somewhere. I've always been interested in a big 30k event.

[defl0]

Adeptcon is the bomb. Been going for years. Best event in the US IMO and I've been to almost all of them.

As for the list.

Love the robots in the face! It's something that will probably make it into my collection someday. Although, I might just go with the blades. Nothing wrong with alpha strike though.

Personally i think you have two big death stars in one list which IMO is too much at 1850. In maelstrohm missions, with 7th ed rules, you often need to go more msu or you will just get way out scored. This list only has 4 units as boots on the ground. I think you would be better off picking one or the other and supporting it. So if you went castellax, you need to pop all the transports and then you can just eat everything up in hth. If you go Darkwing, you need first turn alpha strike to kill anti air, because maun is going to bring in the darkwing turn 2.

One thing this does have going for it though is that it's hard to get points off of it. You really don't have that many soft targets to give up those 3 VP cards.

Shame ur not coming. Would love to see you make me eat my words with this list

[Nusquam]

I'm glad to hear. I was never interested in big 40k events due to it's... 'nature'... but the mentality of 30k in general could convince me.

 

That's a good point about the mission type. It would definitely require testing and modifying to get the right feel. I want to use giant death-bots so bad I can taste it though ha. Thinking about how many more Shadow Masters I could take instead... Oh well. This was more of an experiment anyway.

[defl0]

You know what would work really well with infiltrating castellax? A librarian...

 

Divination really amps these guys up to another level. Rending shooting? 4++? Re roll shooting and hth, ignore cover shooting, counter attack. I mean everything really helps these guys.

 

My other comment is that I'd be tempted to keep them really cheap. I think i like Catellax with just power blades. If you keep them cheap 5 of them its 475. 

[Nusquam]

You know what would work really well with infiltrating castellax? A librarian...

 

Divination really amps these guys up to another level. Rending shooting? 4++? Re roll shooting and hth, ignore cover shooting, counter attack. I mean everything really helps these guys.

 

My other comment is that I'd be tempted to keep them really cheap. I think i like Catellax with just power blades. If you keep them cheap 5 of them its 475. 

 

Nobody can join the Praevians unit, and he eats up the one 'consul' for Decap Strike. Otherwise that would be brutal.