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The Delegatus - 30k Lists for Smaller Games and Starters


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+++While I could've put this in the Army List section, I feel that the topic would get better visibility here+++

So, with the recent release of the Consul-Delegatus at the FW Weekender, it came to mind that this HQ unit was pretty much the perfect selection for Starters, People wishing to test other legions and People playing at lower points level (ie ZM)

With that in mind, I thought it might be a good idea to create a topic where people wanting to try out 30k - but filled with trepidation about the prospective monetary investment - could come look up some lists that use the Consul Delegatus to unlock Legion RoW's (or use his own) for the purpose of using them in small/ starter/ test games.

The Idea is for us to create lists using the Delegatus for other people to use / be inspired by.

Lets put a points limit of 1000 Points for simplicity's sake. You can use any FoC (with a potential preference for the ZM FoC since its the least restrictive in terms of minimum compulsory requirements with the 3 variants).

Themed lists I will encourage over power builds since thats not really the focus of 30k unless your going to tournaments like Adepticon; at which point, I think a topic like this wouldn't be all that required for you tongue.png

Lists can be Legion Specific or Generic, its up to you, as is the choice of RoW; whether you take a Generic, Legion or the Delegatus' - if taken at all.

Rules for the Delegatus for those unfamiliar.
As far as I know, they have no real wargear restrictions. Ignore the profile of the special character tongue.png

Sadly, link broke and cannot find a complete image at this time for the Delegatus rules sad.png


http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1423315548601.jpg



To avoid any problems with B&C rules, please be aware that you aren't allowed to post detailed points costs for wargear and the like in the lists you are submitting, just the Total Cost of the unit should be sufficient.

With all that said, I might as well start...

Legiones Astartes : Imperial Fists (obviously rolleyes.gif )
HQ:
Legion Delegatus: Artificer Armor, Refractor Field (or Boarding Shield), Power Weapon. 110 points

Rite of War: Chosen Duty

Legion Command Squad: 4x Chosen, Standard Bearer, 4 Power Weapons, 2 Combat Shields. 190 points.

-Alternatively, you could drop this squad and max out the 2 Legion Tac Vet Squads and give them both +1 Heavy Bolter & Suspensor.


Troops:
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad: 5 Marines, 1 Heavy Bolters & suspensor web, Vexilla, Artificer Armor on the Sarge, Power Fist. 180 points (x2)

-Alternatively, you could Swap the Sniper USR to Fearless for Staying Power - do note, Imperial Fists gain Stubborn in cover.

-Another option is to take the squad up to 8 marines each and give them Squad wide Melta Bombs instead of the Command Squad. This leaves 20 points over to give the Apothecaries Artificer Armor or Augury Scanners.

Elites:
Legion Apothecarion Detachment: 2 Apothecaries (1 in each squad). 90 points.

Total: 750 points on the nose. Though each alternative option is mutually exclusive. To bring this to 1k Add a Deredeo Dreadnought with Plasma/Autocannons + Antomantic Pavise.

And there we have it; a small, elite, points dense force that has decent staying power if you play to their strengths. I would have wanted to give everyone who could take them melta bombs but it was either that or more bodies. I went with more bodies.

I see this mostly as a ZM list but it can be used for anything, really.

NOTE: Suspensor webs give you the OPTION of cutting the heavy bolters range from 36" down to 18" to then switch its type from Heavy 3 to Assault 3, making the squad more mobile.

For those wanting to use a Deredeo Dreadnought in their Lists: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/page-38?do=findComment&comment=3949539

+++++++LINKS TO OTHER LISTS+++++
Dark Angels:

Emperors Children:

Iron Warriors:

White Scars:

Space Wolves:

Imperial Fists:

Night Lords:
- The Boater - 1k points
Blood Angels:

Iron Hands:
- Emeperors Teeth -1k points
World Eaters:
- LaborerDNA 750 points - Legion Champion
Ultramarines:

Death Guard:

Thousand Sons:

Sons Of Horus:
- The Boater - 1k points

Word Bearers:
- Talthus - 1k points (revised version)

Salamanders:
- Kor'Vesh - 750 points

Raven Guard:
- Nusquam - 1k Points
- Nusquam - 1k points, ZM, 3 FOC's
Alpha Legion:
- Hesh Kadesh - 1k Points

Generic:
- Kitwulfen - 750 points
- Kitwulfen - 1k points

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I'm planning to post a list up later, but as I understand from the rules if you take a Delegatus and use his ROW don't you have to take 2 Veteran tactical squads?

 

So is there any benefit of this, to me it just seems like it is costing you more points, especially in a small scale game.

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I'm planning to post a list up later, but as I understand from the rules if you take a Delegatus and use his ROW don't you have to take 2 Veteran tactical squads?

 

So is there any benefit of this, to me it just seems like it is costing you more points, especially in a small scale game.

No, the Delegatus can take any RoW but has his own Specific one inaccessible to units with "Master of the Legion"

 

The benefit being you're not paying for a Preator for a RoW.

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I really like the Delegatus and shakes things up for every legion. His RoW especially. Veteran Tactical squads can be kitted for shooting, CC, or both. Between their Veteran Tactics rule and unique legion rules; every legion can take advantage of them. It's a perfect way to break into a new legion. Tac marines can end up being a tax in lower point value games. Why not take Vets for more oomph?

It's also a great way to get a RoW on the cheap. The restrictions some RoWs have, like limiting a specific unit or FOC slot, are felt less at lower points. Inversely you can optimize your force, fluffy since a Delegatus is given a specific task, for a specific tactic. This obviously varies from legion to legion.

For example:

 

Edit: As the Delegatus, according to FW can only be taken at minimum of 1k points, use the following two lists as a 750 point 'springboard' towards 1,000 points

 

Raven Guard
 

  • Legion Centurion (120pts)

    Artificer Armour, Cameleoline, Combat Shield, Combi-Weapon, Power Weapon

    Consul, Independent Character, Legiones Astartes

    • Consul

      Delegatus
      RoW: Chosen Duty

  • Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (210pts)

    5x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web, Sniper

    Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Sniper (Sniper), Veteran Tactics

    • Legion Veteran Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Infravisor, Power Weapon

  • Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (210pts)

    5x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web, Sniper

    Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Sniper (Sniper), Veteran Tactics

    • Legion Veteran Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Infravisor, Power Weapon

  • Mor Deythan Strike Squad (208pts)

    4x Combi-flamers, Melta Bombs, 2x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web, 5x Mor Deythan

    Fatal Strike, Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Scout, Stealth
     

This represents a sabotage or guerrilla force. They infiltrate and do as much damage as possible. Simple and effective.

 

Edit: You have to take 2 Vet squads, so keep that in mind when you take a FOC that only requires one troop as you still need two Vet squads minimum.

 

Edit 2: Just realized the the Chosen Duty RoW is a perfect way to face 40k armies at or below 2k points. You pay a bit more, but those points get you more. The can play like a more elite chapter by taking Fearless to offset the lack of ATSKNF in MSU. At least in your core troops. You can expand from there by taking Tac Support or Heavy Support squads for specific tasks. Plus access to all the normal 30k goodies.

Edit 3: A, perhaps, more optimized 748 point springboard:

  • Legion Centurion (115pts)

    Artificer Armour, Combat Shield, Combi-Weapon, Power Weapon

    Consul, Independent Character, Legiones Astartes

    • Consul

      Delegatus: Chosen Duty

  • Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (180pts)

    4x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web,

     Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Veteran Tactics: Fearless

    • Legion Veteran Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Weapon

  • Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (180pts)

    4x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web,

    Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Veteran Tactics: Fearless

    • Legion Veteran Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Weapon

  • Mor Deythan Strike Squad (268pts)

    9x Combi-weapon(5 flamer, 4 melta), 8x Mor Deythan

    Fatal Strike, Implacable Advance, Legiones Astartes, Scout, Stealth

 

 

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OK, here is my stab at a 750 point Salamanders list using the Covenant of Fire rite of war:

 

+ HQ (130pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (130pts) [Delegatus, Artificer Armour, Artificer Weapons, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Refractor Field]

 

+ Troops (390pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (210pts)

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier

9x Legion Tactical Space Marines

Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Pyroclast squad (180pts)

Warden with MC power fist

 

+ Fast Attack (55pts) +

 

Legion Attack Bike Squadron (55pts) [Melta Bombs, Multi-Melta]

 

+ Heavy Support (175pts) +

 

Legion Sicarian Battle Tank (175pts) [Lascannons]

 

The Covenant of fire brings move through cover, saves for vehicles against certain guns, troop pyroclasts and twin linked Melta weapons. What isn't to love.

 

I've tried to build a starter list with Salamander elements in its wargear, that would be a good basis for a bigger force, and has mobile elements. I think it would suit a city fight style board, as it loves terrain, and can actually have a shot at out manouvering the enemy, which isn't normal for sallies!

 

The Delegatus would have a sword and go with the pyroclasts. This unit could steal the rhino to be more mobile if necessary, and should form a tough, hard hitting small unit that is good at taking and holding objectives. It can deal with most threats, and is a pain to charge. The tac squad holds base objectives or territory, with the bike lending mobility and anti-tank threat that can't be ignored at low points. The sicaran can hurt anything, and it's speed helps the list more.

 

If you are opposed to the rhino (which is fair) you could swap it for more tac marines, and possibly swap the attack bike for an apothecary. With a few wargear tweaks, you'd have a tough 15 man tac squad, but far less mobility.

 

Thoughts?

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This post might get a little ramble-y, as it's probably going to end up as a bit of a stream-of-conscious-ness musings on the Delegatus before I arrive at an army list.

 

I'm still trying to work out what the best way to use the Delegatus is.  His price is so close to that of the Praetor, that I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use a Praetor in the first place; Pride of the Legion isn't that different from Chosen Duty.  Praetor includes AA, so the price difference is like 15 points for +1 BS, W, Ld, A.  So this idea that you get a cheaper RoW... it's not really all that much cheaper.

 

Which, I think, means that if he's going to be worth anything, it's going to be because of the differences between Chosen Duty and Pride of the Legion.  In this case, Pride of the Legion wants you to keep your vets alive to prevent the enemy from scoring an additional VP, and Chosen Duty wants you to keep your Delegatus alive so that you score an additional VP.  So it's going to come down to playing the mission, keeping the Delegatus alive, etc.  Which means that the only wargear he should have is ablative wounds.  Stuffing him into melee where his death could result in a 2 VP swing (slay the warlord and not gaining the one from Chosen Duty) is too risky.

 

He could have some ranged wargear.  Combiweapon might be a good pickup.  It rather defeats the point of 'cheap,' but a Nanyte Blaster might also be good.  Legion specific... AL/SoH for banestrike, Raven Guard for Cameleoline.  White Scars for Parthinian Serpent, maybe.  The Relics in general are expensive, and probably not worth considering too heavily.

 

General assumptions at 750 points... probably playing on a 4x4 table, so mobility isn't a really big concern, nor are Land Raiders.  I think this is the perfect place to slip in a Deredeo.  Low model count, enemy marines that may not have FNP, nothing tougher than AV14 to crack, it's pretty perfect.  The Aiolos will really help with chipping away at enemy numbers and giving you multiple targetting options.  The plasma cannonade is actually probably the best arm option, but I don't know the point cost for it.  No apothecaries at this level of points; force multipliers require a force to multiply in the first place, and putting them in Vet Squads won't help.  Better to just take more vets.

 

Hard to fit in anything legion specific at this low points level.  And I like being a little generic anyway.  This should work for any legion.

 

Centurion

-Delegatus Consul

75

 

Vet Squad A

-10 Members, Sergeant with AA and Power Axe, 2 Power Swords, 1 Meltagun, Furious Charge or Fearless

235

 

Vet Squad B

-10 Members, Sniper

200

 

Deredeo Dreadnought

-Aiolos

220

 

750 on the dot.  Could drop some gear from the assault vets to pay for the plasma cannonade swap on the Deredeo if needed (anyone know how much the plasma for it costs?).  I suppose whether you keep the Sunder ACs or swap for the plasma might depend on your local meta/regular opponents.  The list ended up with less anti-tank than I thought, so keeping the AC's might be best.  Really want to make sure you can pop a melee contemptor before it gets to you.  The Delegatus hides with the ranged vets, and they just try to keep their distance, keep the Delegatus safe, and pump out sniper rounds.  The Aiolos can combo with them by pinning targets for them, or the Assault Vets, besides just whittling away at the enemy's numbers turn after turn.  Assault Vets mostly to deter assault, but 4 S6 Ap2 unwieldy, 8 S5 Ap3, and 28 S4 Apchainsword attacks on the charge is nothing to sneer at.

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Biggest problem I can see is that until Master of the Legion rules get rewritten, you cannot take one until you hit 1000pts. 

 

"A Space Marine Legion army may only include a single model with this rule as part of their HQ choice per 1,000 points in the force."

 

I'm not sure what the intention of the rule was (i.e did they intend it to be for every part 1000pts, or did they intend for it to require, as now to require 1,000pts to indicate that only the more significant operations), but as it stands, 0-999 = 0 MotL, 1,000-1,999 = 1 MotL, 2,000-2,999 = 2 MotL etc etc.

 

Alpha Legion; Counter Reserves, 1000pts

 

Autilon Skorr; 125 (The Coils of the Hydra, Divide to Conquer Warlord Trait, Infiltrate Mutable Tactics)

Command Squad, 2 Additional Members, 3 Charnabal Sabres = 155

Tactical Squad = 150pts

Tactical Squad = 150pts

Tactical Squad = 150pts

Land Raider Proteus, Explorator Augury Web, Armoured Ceramite = 270

 

1000pts

 

There is also this;

 

Autilon Skorr (Chosen Duty, Strategic Genius) = 125

Fearless Vets, +5, 2 Missile Launchers, 1x Volkite Serpenta = 205

Fearless Vets, +5, 2 Missile Launchers = 200

 

Fire Raptor, Reaper Battery = 210pts

Fire Raptor, Reaper Battery = 210pts

 

1000

 

Skorr guarantees reserves reroll, you have 20 Fearless Marines loaded with Missiles, and 2 Fire Raptors. Just realised post list creation that there's nothing outside of 4 Missile Launchers to take on AV14 or AV15, but assuming this is versus 30K, it takes some nadgers to fit in a Flare Shielded Land Raider which doesn't score. 

 

Delegatus, Scout Tactics = 75

Fearless Veterans, Heavy Bolter = 145

Fearless Veterans, Heavy Bolter = 145

Deredeo, Aiolos = 220

Deredeo, Aiolos = 220

Deredeo, Aiolos = 220

 

1000

 

Gives you 12 *guaranteed* Dead MEQs a turn, lots of potential Interceptor Skyfire, a Scout move to ensure that you can move behind cover.

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Biggest problem I can see is that until Master of the Legion rules get rewritten, you cannot take one until you hit 1000pts. 

 

"A Space Marine Legion army may only include a single model with this rule as part of their HQ choice per 1,000 points in the force."

 

I'm not sure what the intention of the rule was (i.e did they intend it to be for every part 1000pts, or did they intend for it to require, as now to require 1,000pts to indicate that only the more significant operations), but as it stands, 0-999 = 0 MotL, 1,000-1,999 = 1 MotL, 2,000-2,999 = 2 MotL etc etc.

Although that is one interpretation it's not the only one. If something happens once a year it doesn't mean the first time is after a full year, just it won't happen until a year has passed. The first 1000pts could easily be 1-1000, in the same way the 1st millennium is 1-1000 years.

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Hesh, your numbers are a bit off in that second list.  10 Vets + 2 ML = 250, not 200.  Even then, the numbers you have there add up to 950, not 1k.

 

Going to 1k, and with an eye towards possibly playing ZM... I think my list looks more like this:

 

Centurion

-Delegatus Consul

75

 

Terminator Squad

-5 Members, 1 Chainfist

185

 

Vet Squad A

-10 Members, Sergeant with AA and Power Axe, 1 Meltagun, Vexilla

225

 

Vet Squad B

-10 Members, Sergeant with AA and Power Axe, 1 Meltagun, Vexilla

225

 

Deredeo Dreadnought

-Aiolos

220

 

+70 points wargear

 

The idea is largely the same, but with a squad of terminators to handle the heavy lifting in melee, and the Vets evened out to be more general purpose and self sufficient.  With Vexillas in there, you probably won't lean on Fearless as much, and either squad could take sniper or furious assault to specialize in ranged or shooting - all depending on what you see across the table from you.  Meltaguns for popping open doors, a chainfist is a must in the terminator squad for similar (and Contemptor-killing) reasons.  70 points of wargear can really go how the player wants it.  Some for the terminators almost certainly, get them a plasma blaster or assault cannon (if they have access to one) or something.  The list probably isn't anywhere near as brutal as it could be, but I like the wiggle room it offers to let players kit their force up and personalize it as they get into the Heresy.  Potential downside is that if you are playing ZM there probably isn't a good place to hide the Delegatus.  Some of that wargear budget might have to go to him to make sure he's alive and useful, even if it is riskier.

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Thought of this one cause it was funny... I call it Volkite Death tongue.png

This could be done one of two ways:

Most efficient:

Sons of Horus

Total: 1000
Command: 225
Legion Delagatus: 125
Volkite Charger
Power Weapon
Refracter Field
Artificer Armour
Melta Bombs
ROW: The Black Reaving
Master Of Signal: 100
Volkite Charger
Melta Bombs
Elites: 110
Apothecarion Detatchment: 110
2 Apothecaries
2 Volkite Chargers
Troops: 665
Reaver Squad 1: 250
7 Reavers, 1 Chieftan
8 Volkite Chargers
4 Chain Axes
1 Power Weapon
Reaver Squad 2: 240
7 Reavers, 1 Chieftan
8 Volkite Chargers
4 Chain Axes
Reaver Squad 3: 175
4 Reavers, 1 Chieftan
5 Volkite Chargers
5 Chain Axes
Melta Bombs
Gives you 25 chargers with some melta bombs to break open doors.
Kinda Less efficent:
Or:
Legion Delagatus: 117
Terminator Armour, Volkite Charger
2X terminator squad: 445 each
10 terminators
Volkite chargers
Power Fist
Gives you 21 Volkite Chargers and 20 Power Fists for breaking down those pesky doors...
Either way would be great in a Zone Mortalis game...
-The Boater
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Thought of giving a 1000pt list with a Delegatus a try. This is using the Word Bearers special rules, though I am foregoing all the "evil" stuff, as these guys are to be Imperial Heralds, Iconoclasts, and/or Loyalists. The extra compulsory HQ seems to be a major hamstring. I have no idea what I'm doing honestly, but these are units I would want to run in a small game. By my reckoning I have 80pts to spare, what should I run? Apothecaries? Perhaps a Rapier or two? Drop a couple guys and get Rhinos? Perhaps a land speeder (javelin?)? SO many choices!

 

Centurion Delegatus 110pts

Artificer Armor, Power Weapon, Refractor Field

 

Centurion Chaplain 105pts

Crozius Arcanum, Artificer Armor, Refractor Field

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (Tank Hunters) x10 295pts

Melta Bombs, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web x2, Sgt has Artificer Armor and Power Weapon 

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (Furious Charge) x10 255pts

Heavy Flamer x2, Sgt Has Artificer Armor and Power Fist

 

Legion Dreadnought 155pts

Multi-Melta, Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked bolter, Armored Ceramite

 

Should stand at 920pts

 

I appreciate feedback, as this is my first ham-fisted attempt at a Legion list.

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Ok, first, thanks everyone for participating in this endeavor! Much appreciated.

 

Second, looks like the points limit is now 1k if you want to use a RoW.

 

Third, Points for the Deredeo's gear - Thanks Reinhard: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3949539

 

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Off the top of my head with 60 points remaining you can do any, or some sort of combination, of the following:

  • Give the second vet squad 2-3 power weapons to make use of Furious Charge(I'm guessing the Chaplain is going here)
  • Add an Apothecary to accompany the Chaplain. Perhaps add a Power Weapon to the second Vet squad and/or change the fist to a PW.
  • Give the Dread a Flamestorm Cannon, brutal in Zone Mortalis
  • Drop a Meltabomb or change the Refractor to a Combat Shield, upgrade the Dread to a Contemptor and take a Kheres. Or drop the Meltabomb, change both Refractors to Combat Shields and also give the Contemptor a Chainfist.

The multimelta isn't bad but it's range will be a drawback in games outside ZM. I don't mean to say a Contemptor is always better. You have to consider the points saving, type of opponent, and type of battlefield you'll encounter. Saving enough points to get an Apothecary in your CC squad and Chaplain are certainly worth considering taking a normal dread over a contemptor, if you fight oppoenets who favor melta and you're in a smaller battlefield, etc.

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How about this? 1000pts on the dot.


I dropped the melta bombs and powerfist, adding 3 power weapons to the FC squad and an Apothecary. I also had enough points for the Flamestorm cannon, which In hindsight fits the "scorch the earth" flavor I was going for anyway. So yeah, basically the Chaplain and Apothecary go in the FC squad, and the Delegatus can either go with them or the other Squad. I think the other squad's role is self explanatory. msn-wink.gif


Centurion Delegatus 110pts

Artificer Armor, Power Weapon, Refractor Field


Centurion Chaplain 105pts

Crozius Arcanum, Artificer Armor, Refractor Field


Apothecarion Detachment 65pts

1 Legion Apothecary, Artificer Armor, Power Weapon


Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (Tank Hunters) x10 270pts

Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web x2, Sgt has Artificer Armor and Power Weapon


Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (Furious Charge) x10 280pts

Power Weapon x3 Heavy Flamer x2, Sgt Has Artificer Armor and Power Weapon


Legion Dreadnought 170pts

Flamestorm Cannon, Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked bolter, Armored Ceramite


Thanks!

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