The Red Thirst Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'm all for a Heresy starter set, but for the blood of Sanguinius don't touch the fluff... In the name of all that is holy, hell, even in the name of Sek 'who's voice drowns out all others' DON'T TOUCH THE FLUFF! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 First thoughts are - leave FW alone to do their thing, because they're doing it very well, and GW mainstream rules haven't been as solid as FW HH in a long while. GW taking the reigns on HH and putting their direction on things has been a real fear for this since it all started. However, if what we're talking about is FW "outsourcing" core sets to GW to make in plastic at cheaper prices, with FW keeping control over rule sets, high-detail / high-quality resin kits (I.e super-heavies, legion upgrades and units, characters & Primarchs, etc), and the narrative - I'm all for that. Surely it would be quite simple for GW to put together plastic mould for the common stuff that everybody buys, and have the capacity to manufacture on a larger scale than FW do currently. A "tactical" box of 10 marines in a specific pattern of armour, with bolters and optional command upgrade, sure that sounds like a great idea. What about a clam pack of special / heavy weapons, sounds great to me. Another hidden benefit is that there would be no reason to not stock these in GW stores if GW (not FW) have control of manufacture. How great would that be, to wander into a store and pick up a Mk III kit, or to order it online and not have to pay a high postage fee without breaking the £250 barrier. You might even have a side market of 40k players picking these up to add character to armies they have, especially if they play first / second founding chapters that would have these armour types historically. Still going to take this with a pinch of salt, and frankly I'm still more in the camp of "leave my 30k alone GW!" seeing as how FW have nailed this on all fronts (rules, models, tone, narrative, openness on upcoming stuff). The last thing I want is GW to come along and make it more 40k-esque. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 The cost to machine those five different plastic molds as compared a single mold which contained all five mk's. The possible sales desparity between certain mks may then result in certain mks not being viable. A safer intitial forray into the plastic mks would be a multi mk box set. Either way I think GW doing plastic version of Heresy models can only result in good things. I agree that the booksshoudl be left with FW and I suspect that they will, however I also suspect that if sales spike on plastic, GW will possible release a 30K codex or expansion with basic rules and leave FW to do the big black books with all of the awesome fluff. As long as FW remains an option, I dont really care what GW does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I believe I read that this kit will be out sometime in May? If so, that would be great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramell Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 My thoughts on the matter are pretty much identical to m_r_parker's, but here's some numbers to put it into perspective: A ten-man, mono-mark (or 50/50 split) tactical squad with Bolters (one pattern), holstered pistols, ammo pouches and command upgrade from Forge World costs at least £71.50 with a bundle, and £79.50 without (though you get command upgrade for two squads). In plastic, assuming price stays consistent with the regular plastic Astartes, it would cost £25. Approximately a third of what it currently costs. And that's not counting FW's ridiculous shipping charges. Even if they increase the price, if they think sales won't cover the cost of the molds, it will still be cheaper than Forge World. Model quality isn't really worse - trading a bit of sharpness on the details for increased consistency and zero miscasts. Of course, in this, so far purely hypothetical, situation, FW would have to remain in control of everything 30k except of the casting and distribution of these plastic sets. But if it were to happen this way? It would be terrific, and I'd buy a lot more models, and so would a lot of other people, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Yeah, if that's all it is, great. If they try take over any more than that, that's my worry... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If GW made some of the "generic" units in plastic 10-packs, that is fine. I can see that as being a way of bringing more unwary souls to the 30K train. If they started carrying FW goodies in their stores, that would be fine also. What would be a major turnoff would be them meddling with the fluff/crunch in any way, shape, or form. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Having really enjoyed assembling the 2013 tactical and sternguard kits, noting that they're actually quite a bit better than similiar marine kits of the past, I have zero misgivings about plastic 30k marines produce by GW. None. Provided that everything else stays with Forgeworld. Even the specific legion upgrades (heads and shoulder pads... they're like the Terminator pauldron upgrades that FW has had for ages. What keeps me addicted to the Forgeworld new stuff page is the continious release of all the 'special" things and crazy toys that I can field with my infantry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsovitt Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If this rumour were true and GW was to make a Multi Armour or MkIII/MkIV box of 10 models I think I may be dropping quite a lot of money on them. I once made a list of what I wanted from Forgeworld for the Heresy and no matter how many times I try I just couldn't justify the cost to myself - I could buy several fridges/dishwashers or tumble-dryers for the cost of what my heart desires. If 10 models were priced at approx £25 - £30 I would definitely reconsider the Heresy. Also the parts would be interchangeable with Chaos Marine Kits and now I really really want it to be true... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ehh I give no credit to this at all, FW would never pass the heresy on to GW it's a massive cash cow and it would then need to become a common stock item in all remaining GW stores, to mass produce to a global scale rather than on demand is a cost worthy endeavour Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 I don't know how much choice FW would have... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I don't know how much choice FW would have... From a business standpoint it's too big of a risk to mass produce stock that may not sell, the heresy is a big deal I get that and everyone would love a plastic starter kit blah blah blah. But with GW closing stores reducing operating hours and constantly putting out new releases that they may not see profit from for a couple of years I doubt at this point in time they will mainstream the Heresy, it's alot of production and FW still have the occasional quality control screw ups, imagine trying to do a plastic spartan fire raptor and other kits like the fell blade. It's more cost effective to get your 15% shipping fee and keep your production rates down to maintain quality Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Forge World is Games Workshop. They're a department, not a company. Forge World do niche resin products, Citadel do (relatively) mass market plastic. It's all Games Workshop, all reporting to the same CEO.Forge World and Black Library put together are only 9% of GW's sales. If there's more money to be made by making it mass market, it will go to Citadel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 From the new information it sounds to me like GW are making a plastic teaser box with a couple of suits of each of the old armour Mks in it. I suspect they will probably be getting a couple of sculpts given to them by FW to recast in plastic. This gives GW and 40k some older armour to mix in for flavour, but also gives FW a hook to drag more people into the HH and their sweet, sweeeet resin rules and models. GW sell more marines, FW sell more expensive goodies and everyone is happy (except my wallet). As for the mixed armour problem, well, y'all need to play Shattered legions :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 From a business standpoint it's too big of a risk to mass produce stock that may not sell Plastic Space Marines are a risk that might not sell? Nah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 From a business standpoint it's too big of a risk to mass produce stock that may not sell Plastic Space Marines are a risk that might not sell? Nah. I'm saying to mass produce FW resin such as fire raptors and Spartans and have them sit on a shelf isn't a great practice and then to try and make them plastic sprues would be another cost that's hardly worth the money, power Armoured figures aren't hard to produce big kits are hard to maintain quality so please don't try put words in my mouth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsovitt Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 They could be dipping there toe in to test the water a multi variant box would please both 30k and 40k players. With the trend we've seen in Limited Edition Plastic Commanders - The two GW Direct Captains, Terminator Captain from Strike Force Ultra and Space Wolf/Blood Angel Captains from campaign boxes it cannot be beyond their capabilities to run the multi armour variant box as a potential limited edition run (1000 - 5000 units). I still take this with a massive ocean of salt along with Chaos Multi Part Chosen/Havocs, Multi Part Cultists and Multi Part sisters of battle. But as GW see it Space Marines sell. Hell I've been buying Space Marines since August '87 (it actually upsets me to think that if I'd spent the money on those first three plastic marine kits back then that I've spent recently on the multitude of kits for my space marine army I'd have an actual legion *exagerration*) Edit - The conversation moved on whilst I reminisced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Just my initial reaction http://m.memegenerator.net/instance/59218070 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I'm saying to mass produce FW resin such as fire raptors and Spartans and have them sit on a shelf isn't a great practice You know Forge World have a 40k range, right? Citadel doing Heresy miniatures wouldn't mean every current Forge World kit being replaced. and then to try and make them plastic sprues would be another cost that's hardly worth the money The evidence of every plastic Space Marine kit they've ever made makes this statement a unlikely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The boater Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Honestly, I could see this going one of two ways: 1: they leave the rules be and create some plastic kits as most think. - this would be really cool as it would be cheaper to get into so you would have more heresy players. It would also get forge world rules somewhat popular in stores so it would kill the negative stigma of trying to play with forge world specific models. This might also be the gateway to purchasing forge world in stores worldwide. Lastly, it would also lead to more games of heresy vs xenos, which most I have found are unwilling or hesetant to do so simply because they are unfamiliar with the rules. 2: GW does what they are horribly good at and turns a dark story line with awesome (and frankly) mature models into a line of build it yourself tonka toys (looking at you storm raven) and mechanical deamon dragons. Given the track record, I'm sure you know which one I'm worried will happen... :P But who knows, maybe GW will surprise me. Admittedly this last release did... -The boater Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongGone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Argh, there be a lot o' unsubstantiated rumors floating round these parts, matey... The only reason I doubt this is happening is because it would water down FW's sales. GWnhas already discovered that we'll buy their product regardless of the price, and they clearly aren't worried about our own personal bottom lines. Why rob FW of potential sales when there's no guarauntee they'll increase the sales of plastic marks enough to cover the difference? Would it be cool? Of course. Will GW undercut the goose that's laying their golden egg? I don't know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 If I had to wager I would say something along the lines of a starter set or introductory 'set'. Older armor and bolter types. Can be used in normal 40k, but let's them dip their toes into 30k water. if they sell well, they make more older stuff. If, a big if at this point, it kicks off I can see them making more. Namely relic vehicles and other basic infantry. Stuff that works in both settings. The character series and legion stuff would stay FW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Newton Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 This would fit in with the rumors from 2 years ago that forge world would be more widely available and they were realigning production capabilities. This was at the same time that finecast started to disappear. The was a rumor going around then that the finecast special characters would be made by forge world so the wouldn't have to spend the money to make the molds for plastic. If GW main made some of the marks of armor as plastic kits, I would think a box of mixed marks of armor and separate boxes of the legion marks where disserent pieces of marks are on the same model, then that would be a lot of production capacity that forgeworld would no longer need to worry about. Then the missing characters or one off models and limited edition models wouldn't have to be in plastic. GW could have them produced by forgeworld since the production of general marines is not being done there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I don't see it happening yet maybe in 2 or 3 years but not right now FW are only just getting stuff rolling out and to hand over alot of there new ideas to GW could create a shortfall for the older/advanced bobbyists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Horus Heresy is most likely the most lucrative product FW will ever put out. It makes sense that GW would want to promote it, and a starter box or even a couple minis wouldn't kill us. . . . On the other hand, if they touch my Thousand Sons like the way they do in 40k, it will be Prospero all over again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/3/#findComment-3952525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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