m_r_parker Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Would probably make sense given the plain Contemptor likely sells less now than it used to.If the plain Contemptor isn't selling because there are Legion specific ones, why would a plain plastic one help? It's less the comparison between a vanilla plastic dread versus a Legion specific dread, but more of targetting an audience with the contents, and attempting to remain neutral with the design so not to alienate customers. If I were buying a FW dread, the regular Contemptor is bottom of the list, as I'll have a Legion in mind and would gravitate towards those. Even for a Loyalist force, the Relic Contemptor is a much better choice. If I were designing a starter box that would attract new players to the game, I would want to avoid any Legion-specific decorations / designs - and potentially anything that might lean it one way or the other towards Loyalist or Traitor. The only way to really do that would be the Vanilla one. Maybe I'm wrong, and their thinking of a dedicated Loyalist and Traitor forces for the box, and outfitting the designs of the models to gravitate towards that in the plastic designs, and maybe the dread comes down on one side and not the other. If that were the case I'd give it a Loyalist feel, a few Aquillas here and there, and it remains compatible with the largest subsets of players. Or they could do a Dark Vengeance on us, and have dedicated Legion plastic sculpts for the forces in the boxed - which would be fantastic if those happened to be your Legions, and a potential let-down if they're not and converting them / removing the Legion iconography is too much hassle. For me, the smarter play is to keep it as open as possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 That's what I mean. A vanilla Contemptor would make the most sense and it also means 40k Successor Chapters can happily use one, etc.Also, it would be like the current "template" whereby GW does the stock version and FW does all the variants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Would probably make sense given the plain Contemptor likely sells less now than it used to.If the plain Contemptor isn't selling because there are Legion specific ones, why would a plain plastic one help? Because it will be cheaper and more readily available? Regardless, I'd have to see it before I decide wether I'd get one, if it keeps the brilliant posability of the original FW kit, then maybe... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah, it sounds like you could be looking at a Battleforce type set up, so 15-20 tac marines, 5 Cataphractii Termies and a vanilla contemptor dread would be a pretty decent starter that's open ended enough to allow players to build whatever legion they like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 What would be the opposing force? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 What would be the opposing force? I don't think we're looking at a Dark Vengeance style box. As I said, I think we are looking at a battleforce type thing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Even if it is a DV type thing, providing they don't go legion specific, you'd be able to use everything in it anyway haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 What would be the opposing force? Mechanicus? Making it so either side can be used loyalist or traitor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Which brings us the the Ad Mech rumour... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'd be surprised if they drew the Mechanicum into this, I've given it some thought. I would think they'll go PA vs PA, so a Loyalist Legion versus a Traitor Legion. As an outside shot I would have said some non-Astartes in the form of (most likely) Solar Auxilia, but frankly those guys are too new to be converted in plastic. It'll be a weird answer I feel Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 I think it'll be PA vs PA too, because that's basically a summation of the Heresy. I hope they don't do specific legions, or make one side look evil or whatever. One of the draws would be that you can use it all in your army if they keep it vanilla. Even if it's like one side MkIII and one MkIV or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'll give credit where it's due, in the last 3-4 years GW have seriously upped their game in terms of the plastic multi-part kits (no comment on clamp packs - everyone complaining about them seems to have forgotten it's no different than when they were lead and still needed converting) even for stuff that people disagree with the aesthetics of such as the centurions or the santa-sled, nobody could deny that in terms of the model quality, they're excellent. Then you have things like Riptides/Wraithknights etc and it shows the level achievable in plastic. Do I think the FW Knights are better than the plastic one? Yes but it's wrong to compare them too much. The plastic was designed for a 2 unit codex whilst the varieties we've seen from FW have more scope for innovation. I don't see why they couldn't be done in plastic in the future. Which brings us to the crux - for some of the bigger kits, I'd take them in plastic over resin. Anyone who's bought a large FW kit (more on the smaller ones later) and had to carry out no repair or touch up work has been incredibly lucky. Some of them have been horrific (Fire Raptor) whilst I'll hold my hands up and say others (Sicaran) were very good. I think a lot of that is to do with the packaging - plastic sprues are pretty sturdy so only damage to the box itself would cause a problem. Bags are a different story, I don't doubt that the majority of deformities I've received are due to the bits and pieces being free to move around and get contorted into who knows what shapes. If the bigger vehicle models could potentially be done in plastic to the same standard I'd be all for it. Basic infantry as well if only because of the cost of a relatively small number of models but anyone passionate enough about 30k will soon bypass that I've noticed. The more Legion specific things I'm torn over. I don't know if it's possible for things like Palatine Blades/Deathshroud/Templars to be rendered in plastic as well as they are currently in resin. Plastic weapons would be most appreciated however - resin is very flimsy for some of the things As for the writing side of things, I'd let GW take over from FW over my cold rotting corpse. I'll say that the End Times stuff has been exceptionally well written but could that level of quality be carried on in a HH volume? Could it match what Alan, John, Andy et al have done? I'd never take the chance. There's a difference on taking the plunge on something based on early material (Betrayal) and letting someone fresh try their hand at it with a brand new perspective when there's 4/5 volumes already done to a very high level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Which brings us to the crux - for some of the bigger kits, I'd take them in plastic over resin. Anyone who's bought a large FW kit (more on the smaller ones later) and had to carry out no repair or touch up work has been incredibly lucky. Some of them have been horrific (Fire Raptor) whilst I'll hold my hands up and say others (Sicaran) were very good. Yeah - ironically plastics were discussed at the Weekender, and one of the examples given was the Spartan and also the Fire Raptor as models the resin doesn't particularly suit. We all know that the Spartan tracks generally don't fit well, and Fire Raptor / Storm Eagle sides bend like you wouldn't believe. Plastic would be a great solution to them, given the success of the larger Knights, but more appropriately the plastic Baneblade. The only concern would be how many would they sell, and would it be worthwhile tooling a plastic Spartan for the masses? Basic MkIV armour, yeah, that would be worth it. A plastic Spartan might be a touch too far, but with the crossover of 30k vehicles into 40k as Relics (as per IA2v2 and IA13), who knows what the 40k market for these will be if the price point dropped 35%. And I'll agree the sprue creation from GW has been stellar over the past few years, and whilst the examples you have given are excellent, the stand-out for me was the newly tooled Tactical Squad. Crisp, sharp, huge amounts of options, intelligently designed, competitively priced. If GW did MkIV to that level (allbeit without all the bells and whistles of different special / heavy weapons) I would be very happy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Anyone remember this thread about making your own Heresy-era armour marks? It wouldn't be too difficult for GW to use their own earlier mark bits and create a boxset with a few tweaks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I think anything that is now fair game in 40k in general such as the regular Sicaran, Fire Raptor and Spartan will do well. Given the weakness of the Chaos dex having big hitters like them as options makes them far more attractive propositions. If the general reaction was anything like the reception the Spartan got among the Chaos forum there's probably more of them being used than Land Raiders. No I have no worries that 40k usable vehicles will struggle to justify the production costs. The rub comes for the other things - Sicaran Venators, Jetbikes, the Xiphon (can't see that being 40k approved tbh) it's those that may struggle in among the rest. The rhino based chassis' should do fine as well given that it's relatively minor additions like the vindicator armour or the predator turrets Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The trouble with that is (and I know this contradicts my belief that they would release a Contemptor) that they are not in any Codex and unlike earlier armour marks with can be used in 40k without problem, this could potentially harm sales. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 That's easy, put rules in the box ala the newest Nids stuff, and put them in the next SM codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Newton Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I could see the box being PA vs ad mech because then anyone who buys the box has a start of a new army to buy more for. Also if they keep both genetic either one could go loyalist or chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I think we're past the point now in a lot of cases where dex vs Imperial Armour is a thing anymore. In the vast majority of places at least. Even a lot of tournaments are letting FW stuff in so I don't foresee that much of a headache with that debate. But then again who knows. I've never understood how people could piss and moan about some of the FW vehicles/units and willfully ignore some of the stupid combinations in the codexs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3953972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Something we can probably all agree on though is that any GW 30k bundle deals will not be discounted like FW ones... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3954004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I think people are focusing too much on the idea that a starter box needs to be a marines vs something box. It could just be an individual army starter. I think the Spartan and some of the other vehicles could do well in plastic and I'm convinced that they would sell much more of them if it was a more reliable kit cheaper, which should be achievable in plastic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3954040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 The rumour says 'Horus Heresy standalone box game' which to me sounds like a 2 player starter type thing. All GW starters are 2 player ones, they don't do faction ones (you could argue battleforces I guess but they're hardly a standalone box game, or even really a starter). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3954046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Something we can probably all agree on though is that any GW 30k bundle deals will not be discounted like FW ones...And that is exactly my fear. GW knows that the kits will sell at FW prices. They have literally no reason to sell the plastic kits at a lower price. Meaning your choices will be paying for plastic or resin because they'll be the same price. Provided that GW keeps up their normal pricing practices. Which is why I laugh a little at this suddenly making the Heresy more accessible. Because there is literally nothing to suggest it will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3954060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Something we can probably all agree on though is that any GW 30k bundle deals will not be discounted like FW ones...And that is exactly my fear. GW knows that the kits will sell at FW prices. They have literally no reason to sell the plastic kits at a lower price. Meaning your choices will be paying for plastic or resin because they'll be the same price.Provided that GW keeps up their normal pricing practices. Which is why I laugh a little at this suddenly making the Heresy more accessible. Because there is literally nothing to suggest it will. Actually I hadn't thought about that haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3954077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The rumour says 'Horus Heresy standalone box game' which to me sounds like a 2 player starter type thing. All GW starters are 2 player ones, they don't do faction ones (you could argue battleforces I guess but they're hardly a standalone box game, or even really a starter). Hmm, standalone box game does sound Dark Vengeance-y right enough. Could we be looking at a tac marines vs PotL style starter then? I'd always considered the battleforces as individual army starters which is why I thought it could just be one faction, as putting two loads of marines into the box would seem a bit daft Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303518-worrying-rumour/page/5/#findComment-3954079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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