Mephistons full potential is blocked?

[GrunTeufel]

Let me get this straight.

 

A psyker can roll the same number of powers of his mastery level. So if you roll on the same table for a ML2 librarian, you will get three powers (not counting force), two from the table and one primaris. 

 

Mephiston is a ML3 psyker but he already has a power. Does this mean If I were to roll on divination, I only get two powers without the primaris? 

 

 

[shandwen]

You get the primaris power as long as all your rolls are on the same table.

[GrunTeufel]

But his original power is from the sanguinary discipline. Even If I don't roll for it he has a power from another discipline so I'm kinda confused.

[Leonaides]

He gets 2 rolls, both are on the same tabke.

[CaptainHelion]

Sanguine Sword is a unique power, not from the Sanguinary Discipline. Like Force, it doesn't actually even HAVE a discipline. There's nothing there to suggest it would block taking the primaris.

[johnyocum]

For any psyker that has a set power, if that power is not in any of the disciplines, it does not affect you gaining psychic focus with your rolls.  The powers that you roll all have to come from the same discipline to get you psychic focus in the case of Mephiston (like Ezekiel of the Dark Angels).

[Charlo]

To clarify ad a ML3 He gets 3 rolls on a discipline(s) of his choice, getting the primaris if he uses just one?

[Bukimimaru]

OK, now I'm confused too. :s

 

If I took Mepgiston and (for example) I decided to take all his powers from Biomancy, would I then get:

 

Sanguine Sword

Force

Biomancy (random card A)

Biomancy (random card B )

Biomancy (random card C)

AND

Biomancy (Primaris)

 

Is that right, or does he only get 2 Biomancy powers, one being taken up by Sanguine Sword?

[Jolemai]

Only two rolls. One of his three choices are taken up by Sanguine Sword. He then gets two rolls on whatever table he is entitled to roll on and if they are the same table, he gets the primaris in addition. He also gets force.

 

So:

 

Sanguine Sword

Force

Table A random power

Table A random power

Table A Primaris

 

Or

 

Sanguine Sword

Force

Table A random power

Table B random power

[Bukimimaru]

Thanks (as always) Jolemai for the breakdown.

 

Is Mephy even worth taking since his lamentable but deserved nerf?

I have the model but he hasnt seen a fight for about 2 years.

[Ushtarador]

He is very strong when joined to a unit in a drop pod or transport ;) it is awesome to have a hidden ML2 psyker that can also kill almost every model thrown at him with ease, the S10 is still very good. 

[Jolemai]

In my opinion yes. What he has lost in stats he has made up in gaining Independant Character and can still be quite brutal. Last game he was in a Squad with Corbulo and with a good Quickening roll and Sword active he had WS 7, INT 10, STR 10, and ATK 9. He promptly missed the lot against an Invisible Be'Lakor and got hacked to bits, but that's beside the point...

 

He simply has to be used differently and like all strong Psychers, he needs an additional supply of Warp Charge. I still like the idea of running him solo with Biomancy with a Librarian Dreadnought in tow. but that's just me.

 

tl;dr he's no longer an auto include and needs a delivery system.

[Charlo]

It's a shame sword takes up a slot but one can survive I suppose!

In terms of using him how many dice do you all like to dedicate to powers? I'd say getting force and/or sword (depending on enemy toughness/ AV) and at least another buff (quickening for example) is pretty important, so maybe at least 2 for each of those if possible?

[CaptainHelion]

I've found (with my little experience) that Mephiston with biomancy is brutal. I've gotten a good deal of mileage out of a combi-melta heavy sternguard squad. It's a horrendous threat in someone's backyard. If you get lucky and snag Endurance, that makes an extremely difficult  lump of bodies to shift, as well. I had these guys tie up a squad of seven or eight terminator Wolf Guard for three game turns, eventually coming out on top, with only seven lost wounds!

[Charlo]

Yeah he definitely seems like he'd do great in a pod with something like stern or vanguard with Shields to tank or spank whatever you land near!

[BloodTzar]

My ideal Meph setup is to put him him plus 9 sterns in a Pod, with another pod where Servin Loth rides with another 9 sterns. With decent rolls on BIO he and Loth can exchange nice buffs and wreck face

[Charlo]

Just looked up Servin's rules... Chooses his powers?!?!? That's brutal.

[Karhedron]

I do rather like the idea of an allied Loth. Although he has a limited range of disciplines available, the ability to select which powers he has access to is potentially very powerful. Guaranteed Invisibility on a drop podding unit of Centurions for example could be verging on broken. Too bad he cannot take a Jump pack or we would have invisible Sanguinary Guard.

FNP ObjSec tactical squads (Chapter Tactics: Red Scorpions) as back field objective holders are not too shabby either.

[Charlo]

FNP ObjSec tactical squads (Chapter Tactics: Red Scorpions) as back field objective holders are not too shabby either.

Two minimal squads would be pretty amazing as well. Just pop a heavy in each (or a plasma gun?) and let them sit there taunting the opponent. The FNP is pretty fluffy too for us (to an extent) and you could always paint them the same with a little fluff saying how they're using the thirst for the strength to keep fighting rather than smashing faces. Work even better when you think that the BA Tac's are the more experienced marines

...With Mephy, Servin, two squads and then the rest of your army it does get pretty pricey though, surely? entirely Workable though for the deathstar you could bring.

Stupid BnC Making me want to convert even more count as characters.....

[Brit Viper]

I always run meph with quickening then a roll on the biomancy table. The powers from that table are all great, the only one I would ever swap out for smite is hemorage. Get really silly if he rolls warp speed. Int 10 with potential for 12 attacks on the charge. :D

[Karhedron]

Two minimal squads would be pretty amazing as well. Just pop a heavy in each (or a plasma gun?) and let them sit there taunting the opponent. The FNP is pretty fluffy too for us (to an extent) and you could always paint them the same with a little fluff saying how they're using the thirst for the strength to keep fighting rather than smashing faces. Work even better when you think that the BA Tac's are the more experienced marines ^_^

 

...With Mephy, Servin, two squads and then the rest of your army it does get pretty pricey though, surely? entirely Workable though for the deathstar you could bring.

You could even use apothecary models for the sergeants as if they are sanguinary novitiates in training.

 

Pricey for sure but with 6+D6 warp charges a turn and the ability to optimise your powers, you can really build the rest of the army around these guys with a high degree of confidence in the support they can provide.

[Charlo]

 

Two minimal squads would be pretty amazing as well. Just pop a heavy in each (or a plasma gun?) and let them sit there taunting the opponent. The FNP is pretty fluffy too for us (to an extent) and you could always paint them the same with a little fluff saying how they're using the thirst for the strength to keep fighting rather than smashing faces. Work even better when you think that the BA Tac's are the more experienced marines ^_^

 

...With Mephy, Servin, two squads and then the rest of your army it does get pretty pricey though, surely? entirely Workable though for the deathstar you could bring.

You could even use apothecary models for the sergeants as if they are sanguinary novitiates in training.

 

Pricey for sure but with 6+D6 warp charges a turn and the ability to optimise your powers, you can really build the rest of the army around these guys with a high degree of confidence in the support they can provide.

Yeah the noviates thing is what I was going for, would be pretty great! What other units would people suggest to acompany this core? I guess some fast moving jumpers and other pods would be good to spread the threat around.

[Karhedron]

Yeah the noviates thing is what I was going for, would be pretty great! What other units would people suggest to acompany this core? I guess some fast moving jumpers and other pods would be good to spread the threat around.

Neither psyker has access to a jump pack so if you want to get close to the enemy, you are looking at transports. Since being in transports nerfs certain powers, that makes pods the obvious choice. Red Scorpions are a codex chapter so you can take something easy like a unit of Invisible Centurions in an FA pod. Being close to the enemy means you have the option of landing a psychic shriek on something too.

 

Land Mephiston nearby with a unit of Sternguard to lay down some more heavy firepower and you can cripple most non-vehicle-targets on the turn you land.

 

In the meantime, you could have a unit or 2 with jump packs moving up the field to reinforce their position. On turn 2, the psykers can leave their pod units and join the DC/SG/etc before they charge. Invisible Death Company will eat their own points value of TWC for breakfast.

 

Don't forget that Loth can expend a WC to turn his 2+ save into a 2++. While not a combat monster, you can potentially use him to tank  non-ID hits if you are feeling brave.

 

[BloodTzar]

RS is just broken chapter; they have FNP (on tacticals-which are the way now in 7th) for free , plus very nice power weapon choices; such as -1 I axe...not mentioning they have the Loth

[Arufel87]

Sanguine sword doesn't take a slot as its not part of any discipline. It is a personal power and therefore he can get focus on whatever table he rolls on. It is the same for Ezekiel as far as I know.