So.... who's excited about GW taking over the Heresy?

[Corsovitt]

I'll re-iterate what I've said in a few separate posts:

• I'll be happy if I can either a) buy ForgeWorld stock in a Games Workshop store, or order ForgeWorld through the main GW webstore (and avoid postage charges). It's been a long time coming in my opinion.
• I'll be happy if Games Workshop made plastic versions of basic HH units and vehicles that were available from the main GW webstore / in store.
• I'll be happy if Games Workshop put together a plastic starter set for HH
• I won't be happy if GW goes any further that that.

Excellently summarised.

If I may add another point -

• I'll be happy if GW extend any new plastic HH range to be available through Independent Stockists, so that I can pick them up for 20% off at Dark Sphere...

Very Much This

[blackoption]

I think Forgeworld did mess up some of the lore.

Originally the Legions were around 10,000 to 25,000 strong, but then they decided to go Super Saiyan on us and multiplied the number by 10.

 

This means that during the first founding the Ultramarines would have created 250 chapters - yet Gw lore states it was 25.

 

Also, if the initial number of Marines was so high, considering there's been about 40 foundings since the end of the heresy, even if HALF of all chapters in the last 10k years were destroyed or fell to Chaos, there should be 10,000,000 Marines in the 41st millennium, not 1 million.

 

Original gw lore: about 60 000 loyal marines at end of Heresy, devided into chapters. Ultras split into 25 Chapters. Foundings since that time create additional chapters, number of Marines grows and hits 1 million.

 

Forgeworld lore suggests there were around 500k or more loyalists Marines at the end of the Heresy (250k from Ultras alone, and DA and Wolves were largely still alive). This would imply 500 chapters starting at the end of the Heresy. Each founding since was supposed to grow the numbers, it implies there would be a LOT more Marines in the 41st millennium.

 

Anyways, I'm just saying the number don't fit as Gw lore suggests they have increased about 10x since the end of the Heresy...

 

It was not FW that made this decision.  It was the BL.  The Ultramarines were marked at 250,000 marines in KNF by Dan Abnett.  FW is falling in line with BL's established numbers for the legions.  But it makes sense to me.  Remember, all of GW's lore on the Horus Heresy are in forms of Myths and Legends. It was the Black Library who first started showing what really happened in the Heresy. The Black library shows individual stories, while the FW books are that of history texts.

 

I also share the concern that GW might 'taint' the established lore of Horus Heresy.  I am hoping that GW limits itself to the Great Crusade era only or has a very limited handling of the Heresy.  I love the game, but I have lost faith in some of the creative decisions that GW has done with the hobby.

[depthcharge12]

I agree with the above sentiments, but I'd like to add that we are all incredibly passionate about this hobby and 30k in particular. If this pans out like mentioned above, it will be incredibly profitable for GW. If they do what we all fear, then the sky may fall or we will all just ignore it and walk the line with blinders on.

 

FW and the Heresy team are like that nice family run business down the street that's nice to their customers but have higher prices due to their scale of operations. Yeah the prices are higher, but you feel good buying a sandwich from them.

 

GW represents a Walmart like monstrosity (pander to my demagoguery here) that threatens to move in next door to the FW family sandwich shop and kill it's business or drive out the customer base. Shareholders rule over customer service.

 

So in short, I like my FW resin sandwiches. If GW decides to sell us bags of proverbial plastic chips and kit sodas, I'll be cool with that. But as soon as they start selling sandwiches and killing FWs hard work, then there'll be hell to pay.

[BFeeder]

 

It was not FW that made this decision.  It was the BL.  The Ultramarines were marked at 250,000 marines in KNF by Dan Abnett.  FW is falling in line with BL's established numbers for the legions.  But it makes sense to me.  Remember, all of GW's lore on the Horus Heresy are in forms of Myths and Legends. It was the Black Library who first started showing what really happened in the Heresy. The Black library shows individual stories, while the FW books are that of history texts.

 

This. Though it's interesting to note that BL probably sourced their numbers from a particular piece of GW lore from the 5th Edition Grey Knight Codex:

 

 

"It was a simple task to include the Grey Knights amongst the growing roster of Space Marine Chapters, bestowing upon them the designation Chapter 666 - an oddity, as at the time, there were barely four hundred Space Marine Chapters commissioned.

 

 

I still don't believe that GW will "take over the Heresy". For GW to rock the Heresy Train boat that violently would be counter-productive. If these rumours are indeed true, then I think they will provide support for it, but they will leave the FW team to what they do best.

[GhostMalone]

I agree with the above sentiments, but I'd like to add that we are all incredibly passionate about this hobby and 30k in particular. If this pans out like mentioned above, it will be incredibly profitable for GW. If they do what we all fear, then the sky may fall or we will all just ignore it and walk the line with blinders on.

 

FW and the Heresy team are like that nice family run business down the street that's nice to their customers but have higher prices due to their scale of operations. Yeah the prices are higher, but you feel good buying a sandwich from them.

 

GW represents a Walmart like monstrosity (pander to my demagoguery here) that threatens to move in next door to the FW family sandwich shop and kill it's business or drive out the customer base. Shareholders rule over customer service.

 

So in short, I like my FW resin sandwiches. If GW decides to sell us bags of proverbial plastic chips and kit sodas, I'll be cool with that. But as soon as they start selling sandwiches and killing FWs hard work, then there'll be hell to pay.

That plan to raid Nottingham has changed, im preparing a rescue mission for FW if the sky starts to fall.

 

 

But no panic and doomsaying yet I'll save that for 2 months from now

[depthcharge12]

 

I agree with the above sentiments, but I'd like to add that we are all incredibly passionate about this hobby and 30k in particular. If this pans out like mentioned above, it will be incredibly profitable for GW. If they do what we all fear, then the sky may fall or we will all just ignore it and walk the line with blinders on.

FW and the Heresy team are like that nice family run business down the street that's nice to their customers but have higher prices due to their scale of operations. Yeah the prices are higher, but you feel good buying a sandwich from them.

GW represents a Walmart like monstrosity (pander to my demagoguery here) that threatens to move in next door to the FW family sandwich shop and kill it's business or drive out the customer base. Shareholders rule over customer service.

So in short, I like my FW resin sandwiches. If GW decides to sell us bags of proverbial plastic chips and kit sodas, I'll be cool with that. But as soon as they start selling sandwiches and killing FWs hard work, then there'll be hell to pay.

That plan to raid Nottingham has changed, im preparing a rescue mission for FW if the sky starts to fall.

But no panic and doomsaying yet I'll save that for 2 months from now

So we're calling kidnapping Alan Bligh and raiding all the scotch in a 10 mile radius a rescue mission now?

 

Seems fitting. Then again I was never very good with politicking :P

[Slips]

 

I agree with the above sentiments, but I'd like to add that we are all incredibly passionate about this hobby and 30k in particular. If this pans out like mentioned above, it will be incredibly profitable for GW. If they do what we all fear, then the sky may fall or we will all just ignore it and walk the line with blinders on.

 

FW and the Heresy team are like that nice family run business down the street that's nice to their customers but have higher prices due to their scale of operations. Yeah the prices are higher, but you feel good buying a sandwich from them.

 

GW represents a Walmart like monstrosity (pander to my demagoguery here) that threatens to move in next door to the FW family sandwich shop and kill it's business or drive out the customer base. Shareholders rule over customer service.

 

So in short, I like my FW resin sandwiches. If GW decides to sell us bags of proverbial plastic chips and kit sodas, I'll be cool with that. But as soon as they start selling sandwiches and killing FWs hard work, then there'll be hell to pay.

That plan to raid Nottingham has changed, im preparing a rescue mission for FW if the sky starts to fall.

 

 

But no panic and doomsaying yet I'll save that for 2 months from now

 

Roger Aussie One! Can-One Stands ready for air drop intervention in a Search & Rescue operation!

[Daemon2027]

I agree with the above sentiments, but I'd like to add that we are all incredibly passionate about this hobby and 30k in particular. If this pans out like mentioned above, it will be incredibly profitable for GW. If they do what we all fear, then the sky may fall or we will all just ignore it and walk the line with blinders on.

FW and the Heresy team are like that nice family run business down the street that's nice to their customers but have higher prices due to their scale of operations. Yeah the prices are higher, but you feel good buying a sandwich from them.

GW represents a Walmart like monstrosity (pander to my demagoguery here) that threatens to move in next door to the FW family sandwich shop and kill it's business or drive out the customer base. Shareholders rule over customer service.

So in short, I like my FW resin sandwiches. If GW decides to sell us bags of proverbial plastic chips and kit sodas, I'll be cool with that. But as soon as they start selling sandwiches and killing FWs hard work, then there'll be hell to pay.

That post made me hungry.

[GhostMalone]

 

 

I agree with the above sentiments, but I'd like to add that we are all incredibly passionate about this hobby and 30k in particular. If this pans out like mentioned above, it will be incredibly profitable for GW. If they do what we all fear, then the sky may fall or we will all just ignore it and walk the line with blinders on.

FW and the Heresy team are like that nice family run business down the street that's nice to their customers but have higher prices due to their scale of operations. Yeah the prices are higher, but you feel good buying a sandwich from them.

GW represents a Walmart like monstrosity (pander to my demagoguery here) that threatens to move in next door to the FW family sandwich shop and kill it's business or drive out the customer base. Shareholders rule over customer service.

So in short, I like my FW resin sandwiches. If GW decides to sell us bags of proverbial plastic chips and kit sodas, I'll be cool with that. But as soon as they start selling sandwiches and killing FWs hard work, then there'll be hell to pay.

That plan to raid Nottingham has changed, im preparing a rescue mission for FW if the sky starts to fall.

But no panic and doomsaying yet I'll save that for 2 months from now

So we're calling kidnapping Alan Bligh and raiding all the scotch in a 10 mile radius a rescue mission now?

 

Seems fitting. Then again I was never very good with politicking :P

Kidnapping rescuing it's all the same, as long as there's no fifty shades of grey :cuss it's all good

 

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/Taron_James_Beer/Mobile%20Uploads/Tumblr_inline_mh2760p7zR1qj097p1_zpsnspqotca.gif

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

The Chapters that the XIII Legion broke into after the Heresy might have suffered significant losses in the Scouring.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

The Chapters that the XIII Legion broke into after the Heresy might have suffered significant losses in the Scouring.

 

This may also be why there are so few recorded second founding Chapters for White Scars & Iron Hands - their war of vengeance on the traitor Legions drove them to near destruction, which is an image I love for the X^th - they've spent almost the entirety of the Heresy divided, and when they finally have an opportunity to unite as a relatively singular body, they are driven with such ferocity they almost make themselves extinct (that's certainly when my Clan meets it's end).

[LongGone]

...why did this thread start when there's an already established, much longer thread where this exact same conversation is taking place right above it?

[Fire Golem]

...why did this thread start when there's an already established, much longer thread where this exact same conversation is taking place right above it?

I was gonna say that, but I did kinda start a big off topic thing, which may have been why. But yeah there is already a thread, and we'll stop the off topic stuff.

[KBA]

The best thing of GW dipping their retail toes into the Horus Heresy means MORE PLAYERS. Some of the elitist FW attitudes aside, I think we can all agree that's a huge bonus for the game/hobby. Maybe I'll actually get to play a game with my unpainted models.

[Phalanx Warder]

I think Forgeworld did mess up some of the lore.

Originally the Legions were around 10,000 to 25,000 strong, but then they decided to go Super Saiyan on us and multiplied the number by 10.

This means that during the first founding the Ultramarines would have created 250 chapters - yet Gw lore states it was 25.

Also, if the initial number of Marines was so high, considering there's been about 40 foundings since the end of the heresy, even if HALF of all chapters in the last 10k years were destroyed or fell to Chaos, there should be 10,000,000 Marines in the 41st millennium, not 1 million.

Original gw lore: about 60 000 loyal marines at end of Heresy, devided into chapters. Ultras split into 25 Chapters. Foundings since that time create additional chapters, number of Marines grows and hits 1 million.

Forgeworld lore suggests there were around 500k or more loyalists Marines at the end of the Heresy (250k from Ultras alone, and DA and Wolves were largely still alive). This would imply 500 chapters starting at the end of the Heresy. Each founding since was supposed to grow the numbers, it implies there would be a LOT more Marines in the 41st millennium.

Anyways, I'm just saying the number don't fit as Gw lore suggests they have increased about 10x since the end of the Heresy...

I would say that FW has done a fine job of killing off Astartes to date the RG, IH and Salamanders are all but gutted. FW themselves say it will take decades to reach Terra thats plenty of time to drop numbers down to established lore by the end of the Heresy.

 

On topic. GW's encroachment on FW's gig worries me. Even if we get Plastic Heresy era MKs of armour why would GW cut prices when we are currently happy to pay £60+ for 10 armed marines? Even if you want to class FW as a direct competitor of GW the money still ends up all in the same pot anyway, if GW gets it I fear they will keep the prices high regardless. They care about money and the only thing stopping them (in their eyes) is FW's inability to flood the market with accessible product @ high prices. I think that we will see FW stuff on store shelves before GW makes a move to make it cheaper by doing it themselves. Or Forge World might be at capacity and are looking to shift production of certain items to the bigger GW system, who knows. Just please keep it balanced as I would hate for my 2k+ investment become shelve decoration.

 

Those starter kits will be the FW RoW bundles, watch.

[GhostMalone]

But is it quantity of players you want or the quality?

 

 

This is why I'm not so keen, my local GWS and club all bad mouth FW and the Heresy and are all tau elder and neuron players, those attitudes they bring I don't think I'd want to play against, it's hard enough when we do an apocalypse game and everyone gets piss because I bring the super heavies, apparantly if im on one side it's unfair yet those 4 knights 30 odd fire prisms and teseract vaults are fine against my fell blade falchion glaivé and titans.

 

those attitudes aren't what I feel the essential core of the 30k hobby are.

[shandwen]

I am very excited about this. At my local gw a few of us have stated interest in playing 30k with 40k models, to suport the store. If they actually release anything to be sold at the store it will Sell out.

[Dom_]

 

I think Forgeworld did mess up some of the lore.

Originally the Legions were around 10,000 to 25,000 strong, but then they decided to go Super Saiyan on us and multiplied the number by 10.

This means that during the first founding the Ultramarines would have created 250 chapters - yet Gw lore states it was 25.

Also, if the initial number of Marines was so high, considering there's been about 40 foundings since the end of the heresy, even if HALF of all chapters in the last 10k years were destroyed or fell to Chaos, there should be 10,000,000 Marines in the 41st millennium, not 1 million.

Original gw lore: about 60 000 loyal marines at end of Heresy, devided into chapters. Ultras split into 25 Chapters. Foundings since that time create additional chapters, number of Marines grows and hits 1 million.

Forgeworld lore suggests there were around 500k or more loyalists Marines at the end of the Heresy (250k from Ultras alone, and DA and Wolves were largely still alive). This would imply 500 chapters starting at the end of the Heresy. Each founding since was supposed to grow the numbers, it implies there would be a LOT more Marines in the 41st millennium.

Anyways, I'm just saying the number don't fit as Gw lore suggests they have increased about 10x since the end of the Heresy...

I would say that FW has done a fine job of killing off Astartes to date the RG, IH and Salamanders are all but gutted. FW themselves say it will take decades to reach Terra thats plenty of time to drop numbers down to established lore by the end of the Heresy.

 

On topic. GW's encroachment on FW's gig worries me. Even if we get Plastic Heresy era MKs of armour why would GW cut prices when we are currently happy to pay £60+ for 10 armed marines? Even if you want to class FW as a direct competitor of GW the money still ends up all in the same pot anyway, if GW gets it I fear they will keep the prices high regardless. They care about money and the only thing stopping them (in their eyes) is FW's inability to flood the market with accessible product @ high prices. I think that we will see FW stuff on store shelves before GW makes a move to make it cheaper by doing it themselves. Or Forge World might be at capacity and are looking to shift production of certain items to the bigger GW system, who knows. Just please keep it balanced as I would hate for my 2k+ investment become shelve decoration.

 

Those starter kits will be the FW RoW bundles, watch.

Why would they cut prices? Well, why wouldn't they? These will be on sale in their brick and mortar stores, on sale next to their other kits. Now, no offence to you HH players, but any starter sets or plastic models aren't aimed at you. GW knows that current HH players are happy to pay £60 per squad, and that they are fine having it mail order only and that they are resin kits. They know that since you all play it regardless of this. To you current players, they know the price tag is more or less irrelevant.

 

Let's say that once this set is on sale, a new potential player walks into a store interested in playing one of their games. They look at 40k and fantasy and see similarly priced models, and then they look at HH and see tactical squads that are 2.5x the price. Which one would you think they'd choose?

 

FW models are more expensive due to higher work load on the sculpts and models that will only sell a fraction of 40k/WFB kits. They are priced higher to make up for the smaller consumer base.

[KBA]

But is it quantity of players you want or the quality?

 

 

This is why I'm not so keen, my local GWS and club all bad mouth FW and the Heresy and are all tau elder and neuron players, those attitudes they bring I don't think I'd want to play against, it's hard enough when we do an apocalypse game and everyone gets piss because I bring the super heavies, apparantly if im on one side it's unfair yet those 4 knights 30 odd fire prisms and teseract vaults are fine against my fell blade falchion glaivé and titans.

 

those attitudes aren't what I feel the essential core of the 30k hobby are.

 

I definitely see what you're saying, and agree with a lot of it. The thing I'd bring back to offer is simply a numbers game. If there's a ratio of bad attitude players to good attitude players, if you increase the numbers, yes you will get more bad apples, but you will find more gems too :)

[sockwithaticket]

Hmm, seems like I'm the only one not excited by potential plastic versions of the heresy armour?

Thus far FW Mk. IV and Mk. VI  parts are vastly superior to their GW counterparts imo. FW Mk IV helmets, in particular, make their plastic equivalents look like the work of a child.

I'd only be excited about HH stuff going plastic if it were vehicles with large resin parts prone to warping (Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor, basically).

[Fire Golem]

Hmm, seems like I'm the only one not excited by potential plastic versions of the heresy armour?

Thus far FW Mk. IV and Mk. VI  parts are vastly superior to their GW counterparts imo. FW Mk IV helmets, in particular, make their plastic equivalents look like the work of a child.

I'd only be excited about HH stuff going plastic if it were vehicles with large resin parts prone to warping (Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor, basically).

To be fair I'm fairly certain they'll keep the style of the FW armour. Especially asmthe aim of this is to get people into the FW stuff, having it a different style will kinda defeat the point.

 

However, that's a sensible outlook, so I do have a slight niggle that GW will disregard that...

[sockwithaticket]

Hmm, seems like I'm the only one not excited by potential plastic versions of the heresy armour?

Thus far FW Mk. IV and Mk. VI parts are vastly superior to their GW counterparts imo. FW Mk IV helmets, in particular, make their plastic equivalents look like the work of a child.

I'd only be excited about HH stuff going plastic if it were vehicles with large resin parts prone to warping (Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor, basically).

To be fair I'm fairly certain they'll keep the style of the FW armour. Especially asmthe aim of this is to get people into the FW stuff, having it a different style will kinda defeat the point.

However, that's a sensible outlook, so I do have a slight niggle that GW will disregard that...

I'd like to think they would, too. However, since the FW kits have been out we've had the new Tactical kit with a bunch of MK. VI heads and legs (even a couple of torsos, though I don't have much issue with those) much thicker and less well proportioned than their FW equivalents as well as a pair of MK. IV legs that's incredibly stylistically different in the crucial area of the distinctive knee pads. Similarly the Vanguard kit has Mk. IV legs that bear little similarity to the established FW as does the new BA tactical kit whereas the Sternguard kit has a Mk. IV helmet that more closely resembles the pre-existing plastic examples than its FW counterparts as well as a pair of Mk IV legs with the knee pad issue.

So, yeah, I'd like them to take their cues from existing FW designs, but so far that hasn't happened with newer plastic bits for older armour Mks. Plus I'm naturally pessimistic and fear the worst

[Fire Golem]

Yeah but that's just a few bits in a kit, and was probably made before they decided to do this.

[sockwithaticket]

True, but as yet they are the most recent plastic examples of older armour marks (coming out quite a long time after the FW versions have been released and so the design features are well established) we can look to to get a sense of what future efforts might look like. Obviously I have no idea if they were trying to emulate FW's existing designs or not, but if they were then I can't say I'm overly impressed.

I'm totally fine with them making a ton more crusader/Mk. 3 helms like the new BA one, though. It's badass and looks like it could have been in the Sevrin Loth  honour guard kit (love those helmets).

[KBA]

 

 

Hmm, seems like I'm the only one not excited by potential plastic versions of the heresy armour?

Thus far FW Mk. IV and Mk. VI  parts are vastly superior to their GW counterparts imo. FW Mk IV helmets, in particular, make their plastic equivalents look like the work of a child.

I'd only be excited about HH stuff going plastic if it were vehicles with large resin parts prone to warping (Storm Eagle and Fire Raptor, basically).

To be fair I'm fairly certain they'll keep the style of the FW armour. Especially asmthe aim of this is to get people into the FW stuff, having it a different style will kinda defeat the point.

 

However, that's a sensible outlook, so I do have a slight niggle that GW will disregard that...

 

I'd like to think they would, too. However,  since the FW kits have been out we've had the new Tactical kit with a bunch of MK. VI heads and legs (even a couple of torsos, though I don't have much issue with those) much thicker and less well proportioned than their FW equivalents

 

 

Interesting you should mention your preference to the FW legs. It might just be the true-scaler in me, but I've always found the legs of theMark VI and IV from Forge World just too skinny:

 

http://s22.postimg.org/ushkixrox/mk_VI_1.jpg

 

Definitely, though, they make the marines seem taller and less squat than their citadel counterparts.