Prot Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This is a really stupid question, and a long shot I'm sure, but I have to ask this. I've hit a real wall with my Dark Angels. I know need to do a lot of bikes... a LOT. Plus finish speeders, and attack bikes, and a Ravenwing HQ squad, plus the Black Knights. Here's the short version: I hop back between painting Ultramarines and Dark Angels. I've finished some nice pieces for Dark Angels but finishing bikes that I've had for 2 years now is WAAAY over due. The problem? I hate painting bikes. I don't know why, I've never been a fan of painting vehicles but I despise bikes. I have no patience for it, even though the Ravenwing have some of the nicest looking bikes in the game... nice, ornate, some great options and really unique looking models. Every time I go to sit down and finally do up bikes, I pick the Black Knights because they are the most featured of my Dark Angels, in almost every list I play. So I start painting them, get grinded down in trying to pick out highlights. I get sick of painting the highlights, and fiddly bits, I promptly put them down and start painting my Ultramarines. This has been great for my Ultra's as they've made a lot of progress based on my bike frustation alone! So I'm giving in. I'm asking for advice on technique. I know this is a long shot, but at this point I figure as slow as I paint (which is very slow) I will NEVER finish or progress the army any further. (Maybe you've seen my thread on all the DA games I've played and models I've painted. It has become stagnant because of this very issue.) If you have pictures of a squad you've done in a quick method I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm pretty sick of restarting the project and all I've done to date is start an Apothecary, partially painted a champion and standard bearer. The Black Knights have a basic level of crappy highlighting, and everything is primed black of course. Any advice? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I have the same illness as you. Love the models, hate to paint them. The bikes I keep fairly simple. Gunmetal trimming, wash with black. I do just small highlights in the sharper corners. Then, my trick is... Put a lot of Dust and grit, either through pigment or drybrush. Since I have a sucessor, then my bikers are painted in sucessor colours, but you cn do almost the same for the black knights. Keep them simple and not ostensive. Black Knights re supposed to be black, not festooned with jewels and gold. Keep them sinister. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3957196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonBased Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Could be worse, my colors pretty much preclude speed. Which is part of the reason I'm so darned slow. http://i.imgur.com/BLMtjdZ.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3957199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302121-new-ravenwing-project-updated-2142015-group-photo/?p=3950725 Bottom photo I tend to just do them. Line up my paints and work through a squad at at a time if possible. I'm just now finishing out my second Ravenwing army, but it's mostly painless as long as you just hunker down, line up your paints, and get to work. I'll try to post some work of my current squad in progress when I get home today. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3957204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varizel Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Well actually, same feeling here Prot. Even though it's more my Deathwing that irks me, but Ravenwing too. The one i hated the most was the white on their feathers. The new Black Knight models doubled that amount of feather, which drives me even lazier to paint them. Due to the new DV bikes looking the same as them feather/antenna wise, i pulled out my unused feather antenna from my black knight boxes and put them on 4 of my bikes to make them look the same. But damn the laziness kicks in after that. Now i got my first Ravenwing Battleforce a while back... 2008 i think? I just finished painting them last December i think hahahaha. Now i got 2 more boxes to go, i think i got those 4-5 years ago ? Good luck though on painting them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3957322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Well I'll try to sum up some of the most important points of my painting method and way to motivate myself painting bikes (and more generally models) 1st - Never expect a golden deamon result. Perfectionnism tends to be presented like a quality of a default... it is not. You say you regularly play with unpainted models, so the most important is to have painted models, not painted models with a zillions of layers of enlightments on each details. 2nd - make sure you've undercoated your bike properly, there's nothing more demotivating than a bike with grey sides when you start painting. 3rd- I usually paint all the bike metal parts first with a small drybrush. sure I leave metal paint on the hull but who cares? I'll have to make a layer of black to correct all the colors imperfections anyway. 4th- ALWAYS end by black enlightments. First because like I've said just before you'll put paint on the hull so you don't want to rework what you've alredy done, but also because it's the boring part. BUT you'll see that once you'll have worked on the details, this boring work is not that necessary because all those details add a lot of depth to the model. You'll see you'll spare half of your enlightments use just by doing that. Less enlightments = less boring work. 5th - try to avoid mix and use paint out of the pot for the work on your majoritary colour. Having a step of enlighting a large area of a model with a mix is really annoying because you'll have to make a new mix every 2 minutes with the risk of not being consistent. So buy several pots of diferents shades of gray (50 is too much if you want my opinion, I do well with 4) and work with them. 6th - black needs few work to look nice. You juste need to make 4 or 5 spots of grey to make it look actually black. More and your bike will start to look grey, so restrain yourself. Good news it's again less work! Here's the result of a quick painting using my method : (grey is replaced by blue) http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Masteravoghai/Dark%20angels/555523DB-936E-40FE-A333-A2E899FA8555.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3957566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Remember that one bike is like painting 3 regular marines, so 3 bikes is like painting a whole Tactical squad worth of surface area. I never try to paint more than three at a time, its like painting a whole tank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3957639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galthan Ironsturm Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I used the same method that Master Avoghai : http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/13/17/29/53/dsc08325.jpg http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/13/17/29/53/dsc08011.jpg http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/13/17/29/53/dsc08311.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3959356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/186/1/5/ravenwing_black_knight_by_elmo9141-d6c3ujn.jpg Here is my tuppence worth... Black: chaos black spray, light drybrush shadow grey - done White: fortress grey base, skull white, watered down codex grey in the recesses - done Metal: boltgun, black ink - done Gold: shining gold, agrax earthshade, highlight shining gold - done Red: scab red, agrax earthshade, blood red highlight - done Muddy up tyres and lower frame, base to suit.... Jobs done. Extra detail if required. ;) Make sure you have some good music or an audio book on in the background and do not have any other distractions such as tv or social media on! Paint in batches but not too many at a time so the progression seems faster. I normally only paint a maximum of 6 bikers at a time. Hope this helps ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3959427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I join the pain of painting bikes for table top for us slow non-golden daemon painters... For me, speed is about having a VERY streamlined paint scheme. I like a touch of bone to blend with the DW, but if you stay pure... 1.- Paint black all of the bike..if you can spare the robes and light coloured areas, better, but not fundamental 2.- Paint metal: motor block, bolters and exhausts 3.- Paint brown: pouches, seat and holsters 4.- Paint yellow: light and the screen on the handlebar At this point, you have a pretty flat result, so I suggest 2 ways: A.- Quick Shade, medium tone, brushed (not dipped)...let dry 24h and spray matt varnish B.- Start highlightling, layering and all the hard stuff... Using the first method I pumped out 12 RWBK in around 20 hours...a neat TT, won't ever win a prize but I feel happy about them Edit: When I have to work big loads (as in a few new units you want to take to a tournament or something like that), it is soul crushing to see the whole task lined up. My method? never spend more than 1h doing the same, so I alternate: cutting sprues+filing mold lines, assembly, priming (usually I do this all at the time, its a moment with the airbrush), base coating, doing a specific colour... The most important trick: a board. I have a small cork board where I form columns and rows. Columns: the stage you're at with that unit. Usually they are: Building, priming, base colours, details, Varnishing, playing! (yes, its an actual column, to motivate!) Rows: a small paper with each unit Example: 6 RWBK, 1 RWGL That way, you can easily see at one glance how progress is going...because you can phisically move the papers and its really encouraging. Hope it helps!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3959506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Well guys confession time.... I had a moment I'm not too proud of but I consider this probably the best place to confess... just about anything. ;) I was determined to make a short list, and go from there. I have just finished a fairly decent looking Ultramarine terminator squad (I just posted it HERE if you're bored/curious.) That cleared my hobby table as I also just finished about 500 more pts of my Necrons. I came back to this thread, and thought I'm going to make that short list.... The first models I tried was the bikes... I failed. I lasted about 2 hours trying to find parts I lost.... I had to crack open new boxes to supplement missing plasam talons, also I lost the 2 Black Knights I actually had painted. I'm not gonna lie... I was pretty peeved. I didn't like how the bikes were looking and I thought my frame of mind at this point wasn't good for speed painting bikes. I grabbed Belial because he's been on my 'to do' list for about 2 years... ugh. I like him but never finished painting him because I knew I had to magnetize him since I change his load out every other game.... I started magnetizing him... the magnets must have 'flipped' in my fingers, and I got the polarity wrong. Before it dried I tried chipping out the glue/greenstuff. Made a real mess, and ended up having to cut the magnets out.... I was so ticked off at this point I shoved him in a drawer and slammed it shut. Yup, not a proud moment. lol Belial is probably not happy about my treatment of him. :) I wasn't going to post about any of this but I came back here and saw such great motivation/feedback from you guys I felt a little guilty. I really appreciate the great posts and ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3960242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 That sucks dude. I've had that frustration a couple of times and did the same thing. Next time you have a few moments grab some bikers with all the bits you need and put them all in a baggie in a safe place, don't do anything else. The next time you get pumped to work on some bikers you just tip out the baggie and go, avoiding any annoying dramas. I saw your Ultra's page they are all amazing, keep it up! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3960248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Actually I find bikes to be relatively straightforward now because I had much the same problem you did - the issue is all those straight edges. My solution was to drybrush the bike, but edge-highlight the marine. For the bike I did the following: 1. Very dark brown/grey drybrush. 2. Very gentle codex grey drybrush on areas you want the sharpest highlights. 3. Fill in the flat areas between highlights with black again. Once the marine is painted too, I may well wash the whole bike with black if I think the highlights are too sharp, but generally I only need to do it for the rider. Try it - it sped up my painting of bikes enormously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3960447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 @Prot It honours you coming forward...but I think you did the right thing. It is a hobby after all, and IME the most important thing is to know when to stop. That finaly brush stroke...that extra icon you're glueing... And then is when you mess up all the hard work. When you see that you "almost at the edge", much better to drop it RIGHT NOW, go for a stroll and come back later...or tomorrow :) That said... WE DEMAND PAINTED DARK ANGELS!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3960465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ugh... thanks a lot guys. I am giving it one more shot. I am continuing from yesterday. I have 3-4 partially finished Ravenwing. I am giving myself one more day to finish them (probably 3 hours more painting on top of about 4 hours in total, plus magnetizing the banner.) Let's see if I can grind through 3-4 bikes. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3961292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
egon1six Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 You must unlearn what you have learned. Feel the force flow through you must. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3961406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Hey guys, I just didn't want to let this go without at least posting a quick result: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=B8CAA5ACC3753857!1658&authkey=!AEN8Hy-8ETStp6Q&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg I'm not really happy with them. They took too long, and I'm not particulary happy with them. Every day I said okay, just one more hour... by the end of the week i had put over 8 hours into them? Probably more because I had started them with highlights and air brushed the white spots to get a start on them a year ago before putting them away. Thanks for the help though. At least I have 3-4 bikers done. The banner guy has his arm magnetized now as well, and who knows, maybe one day I'll actually paint the banner. lol I ran this simulation about 10 times: No one gets the rush: Everyone goes at initiative. Belial and the Ultra captain squad off with the Ultra captain having a hammer and a shield eternal vs Belial's sword. The 4 termies, vs the 4 bikes with 3 twin plasma's, and the grenade. At first I rolled out 7 fights, no shooting. Then I added 4 more rounds with the Ravenwing getting shots going into close combat but still no charge bonus. (Termies were at -1 toughness). https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=B8CAA5ACC3753857!1654&authkey=!AJ7wihYcpXfPjzI&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3963616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Those bikes are looking nice. They need a few finishng touches but they are tabletop quality plus at least. And what was the result of the fight? Now I'm curious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3963644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 See the bikes are disappointing though because I agree I could go back and touch up a few little things: handles on the Corvus hammers, for a biggie. At this point I wanted them done.... Also, as far as the fight: 6 out of 7 times the Termies wipe the bikes. (even at T3) 100% of the time Beliai died before the Ultra captain 50% of the time the Bikers would win IF they got to shoot going into combat (it came down to the hammer/shield guys passing most of the 3++). The killer was the twin claws. if they lived, they chewed up the bikes which kind of surprised me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3963664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Very decent bikes!!! Congrats for tearing down the wall :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3963670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Truckin Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The bikes are looking great, but I also have to say Ultramarine tacticals you posted a link for look flawless! I have just finished a fairly decent looking Ultramarine terminator squad (I just posted it HERE if you're bored/curious.) Well Done! I'd be ridiculously happy if the ravenwing I'm working on at the moment look half as good as those! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3963812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Thank you for the kind words. :) Everyone likes my Ultra's better. It's almost... annoying. lol They seem easier to paint to me. I have people I play against tell me that they love my DA until they play my Ultra's.... Don't get me wrong, I'm very appreciative when someone says they like my stuff, but I guess it's just I paint blue better I suppose??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3963829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I would say those bikes look pretty good. Liking the blue used on the feather details. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303737-speed-painting-dark-angel-ravenwing-bikes-ive-hit-a-wall/#findComment-3963918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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