Priest for Sanguinary Guard or Assault Terminators?

[Arufel87]

I can't decide what my next purchase should be. I already run small units of DC and want a hammer unit to press the enemy. I've done the math on both squads and offensively they come out quite similar against infantry assuming that you're taking a couple of LCs in the termi squad and a couple of axes in the sanguard. Against tough targets the termis win. Defensively the terminators are also better as they come with a stock invulnerable. This can obviously be buffed further with FNP. The sanguard however win on mobility and the fact they have a ranged weapon (although I'm not convinced this is a good thing!) 

 

My thoughts are that if I am to run a raven then the termis are probably best to roll with as this will make up for their problems with speed. Otherwise it's probably best to rely on sanguard. Does anyone have any advise? One thing is that I would rather not run Dante... only because everyone seems to be using him.

[Brother Dallo]

I'd be wary of running terminators, or any dedicated assault unit, in a raven. It's a turn 3 charge at best, and it makes the raven vulnerable the turn they do charge. Maybe consider a land raider, if you want to run them? Sanguinary Guard  have the benefit of being a good chunk cheaper, so I'd probably lean towards them. They also have reasonably good firepower for a dedicated assault unit, so there's that. They can also access melta to crack open transports, and charge the juicy contents within.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dallo

[shandwen]

Our termies can ride in a fast attack drop pod.  It doesn't cost a lot, and merely limits the squad to five models, but brings them in turn one, and with more accuracy (and not bunched up to eat plasma plate overwatch).  Its only an idea (and an unfuffy one at that) but it can be effective.

[Red-beard]

I prefer Sanguinary Guard myself. I like the mobility and the points you save on not having to buy a transport can be used to grow the squad beyond 5 models. Rush them upfield alongside some jump DC and force your opponent to pick which target he wants to take out. 

 

If you run Sanguinary guard, I like to pay for the banner upgrade. Giving each model three base attacks is huge. This upgrade makes more and more sense as you grow the squad beyond the minimum 5 models.

 

I've found Sanguinary Guard with an embedded Sanguinary Priest to be very resilient. Attacking at WS5, initiative 5, Strength 5 is very nice. 

 

Also, instead of axes, consider upgrading two models to power fists. It's only 10 points per model and gives you some nice anti-vehicle punch (literally =p).  

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I've found a full 10 man SG, with priest (I do also use Dante though) to be incredibly fun and rewarding; and people are generally quite scared of them. Red-beard hits on some good points; for many reasons they seem to be the better unit.

 

That said, I love terminators and I dig the StormRaven. I've recently started running a 5 man LC squad with a power armor chaplain and Corbulo. They all fit in the transport and hit like a ton of bricks... ws5, initiative 6, s5, reroll hits and wounds, FnP - oh and they get the extra attack for having 2 specialty weapons. The chaplain is s7 and concussive at init6.

[Golden Aegis]

I really want to like LC termies, but the 5++ simply makes them too vulnerable, even with FNP. And even with rerolls to hit, and wound they have huge problems with any 2+ save models. Unless you have some kind of AP 2 in your death star, I see it having problems with some matchups.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Well it's all relative I guess, I'd hardly call 2+/5++/FnP too vulnerable.

 

And at least in my meta the majority of the time I face armour 2+ it's against TH&SS terminators, in which case they're getting a 3+ invul at least anyway - so in such a case I find tons of dice, rather than a few high ap, to be much more useful.

[Golden Aegis]

I could see how they would serve you well if you don't play against much 2+. I guess what I mean is the difference between Assault Terminator loadouts, for only the cost of a melta bomb per model you will get a 3++ and Str8 (9 on the charge.) AP2 hits, at only the cost of striking last, and losing out on an extra attack. But it may be just me, but I can usually find a lot more options to deal with 3+ infantry, then anything 2+.

 

I usually run 5 TH/SS Termies with a sang priest, and Mephiston in a Crusader. Mephiston, or really any Stock librarian with a sword running Sanguine can work really well with challenging anything 3+, and you have the option of using quickening on himself, or the TH/SS sergeant to splatter something in a challenge.

 

I play in a fairly competitive meta with a lot of Tau, and Chaos Demon/Marines. Lots of Riptides, and Plague marine deathstars!

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Striking last might mean some casualties before you can strike back, losing the extra attack and the reroll to wound might also make some difference, but I hear you; TH&SS termies are tough as nails and a great unit. In our new codex however I think LC termies are viable and fun.

 

Just out of curiosity, which 2+ armour units do you usually face?

[Golden Aegis]

Striking Las can be bad if you are really unlucky with your saves, but generally a 2+ will save twice as much then a 3++ so the AP 2 can really help with taking other high invulns out. My most common opponent usually runs 2 FNP, Interceptor Riptides, and a farsight bomb at 1850. Another opponent I face a lot uses a few dreadknigbts, with a paladin squad and terminator troops. So I have to deal with quite a few good armor saves.

 

Against the common Tau opponent the 3++ has saved my butt more times then I can count, I used to run Tactical Terminators a few years back, and their 5++ just can't take all the low AP firepower that's so common to see in most lists at my LFGS. I do love how the LC termies are more viable now, but I simply can't live without the 3++. Although I'm really tempted to try them with Corbulo sometime. I 6 LC termies do sound fun to use if you build a list around them!

 

I apologize for errors, typing this on my mobile, and it simply doesn't let me edit if I go down too far! :P

[Xenith]

It seems to be that the SG are the best choice in a vacuum, but if you have the points for a land raider crusader or redeemer, then these work well!

 

The drop pod is a great choice, but wont fir a priest inside.

 

Jump priest with the SG and terms in a pod?

[BloodTzar]

Do not forget that now you can get your 5TH/SS termies a Drop Pod for some nasty T1 supprise

[Golden Aegis]

I do like Assault Termies in a pod if you have other threats that can come up and support them quickly on T2 giving you opponent a hard decision of shooting your support, or trying to take out the very threatening terminators. Priest with 10 guard is a lot of fun if you can remove/avoid AP 2 pie plates.

[Arufel87]

Does the poor mobility not cripple pod termis though? I wouldn't want to try and chase eldar down after the drop!

[Golden Aegis]

You could use them to carrel fast units into a bad position for a turn two assault with your jumpers. Or simply for area denial. If you get a good drop it can really mess with opponents plans, and is vastly cheaper then a land raider.

[Shaezus]

If you're taking BSF, sanguinary guard have the edge as they benefit from the I bonus assuming you have mostly glaive swords.

 

I run ten of them, for the same reason that a dog can lick its own private parts. Also because they're best off starting on the board and thus the extra bods will help deal with the fire that comes their way. Stick a small unit (or even large if you really want) of jump DC next to them; chances are they will go relatively unmolested.

 

Otherwise as red beard said; banner, fists and inferno pistols are all good.

[Remtek]

If your not running an IC that can tank for SG i'd go with assault termies, either in a Raven or just starting on the ground. Storm Raven is much more useful then a Land Raider, and you can always jink the turn you go into hover, turn 3 charge is not horrible by any means for termies, but without reserve rolls it's risky. I prefer just starting them on the table though in the center, it does create a rather large threat bubble (20-28 inches diameter depending on angle). On the ground with a priests its less than 300, if you space them out center field with move and run they will quickly become relevant and quite tanky per point. You could have a Libby with BA spells and hope for Wings as icing on the cake. 

[Brother_Mike]

If your not running an IC that can tank for SG i'd go with assault termies, either in a Raven or just starting on the ground. Storm Raven is much more useful then a Land Raider, and you can always jink the turn you go into hover, turn 3 charge is not horrible by any means for termies, but without reserve rolls it's risky. I prefer just starting them on the table though in the center, it does create a rather large threat bubble (20-28 inches diameter depending on angle). On the ground with a priests its less than 300, if you space them out center field with move and run they will quickly become relevant and quite tanky per point. You could have a Libby with BA spells and hope for Wings as icing on the cake. 

 

I've been thinking of doing something similar to this, but by also throwing Mephiston into the mix. 5 TH+SS termies means his lack of a invul save would be mitigated to a point, and he can provide all the at high initiative attacks the squad needs, either by himself or psychically modified. The squad sergeant can also be buffed by things like quickening since he's a character, meaning he can be given more high strength AP2 attacks. All that thrown into a stormraven seems pretty significant to me.

 

And I bet it would look pretty cool on the table :P

[Deschenus Maximus]

5 termies in a pod, Priest on bike. Deploy in such a manner that your Priest can join the Termies T1. Profit.

[Xenith]

5 termies in a pod, Priest on bike. Deploy in such a manner that your Priest can join the Termies T1. Profit.

 

Drop the pod within 20" of your DZ, then move one termie back 6" towards the priest?

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

5 termies in a pod, Priest on bike. Deploy in such a manner that your Priest can join the Termies T1. Profit.

 

Drop the pod within 20" of your DZ, then move one termie back 6" towards the priest?

 

 

Something like that, yes. In the shooting phase, the Priest can turboboost forward as the Termies run.

[Khorneeq]

To join a unit You have to be in coherency in the movement phase, not in the shooting or assault. I think that was the thing Xenith thought about. In case of bad scatter this tactic can be risky.

[Deschenus Maximus]

To join a unit You have to be in coherency in the movement phase, not in the shooting or assault. I think that was the thing Xenith thought about. In case of bad scatter this tactic can be risky.

 

I know, I was just saying the squad can move up some more in the shooting phase.

 

As for bad scatter, even if you can't have the Priest join the squad, its not like Hammernators aren't quite durable on their own.

[InquisitorBlack]

Units can't run if there's a bike in the unit, as the roll is made for the unit, and bikes cannot run.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Units can't run if there's a bike in the unit, as the roll is made for the unit, and bikes cannot run.

 

You are making an inference that is without support. The Turboboost says that a bike cannot run, but may instead make a turboboost move. There is nothing anywhere saying a unit with a bike IC attached can't run. So just roll a D6 for the guys on foot, and have the biker turboboost while remaining in coherency.