InquisitorBlack Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It's not as simple as that. The bike can't run. Turboboost does not = run. 'Units' roll a d6 to determine a run movement. If a bike is part of a unit, then there is a model in the unit that cannot run. If that model cannot run, it cannot roll a run move. By rolling a run move for the unit, you are rolling a run move for a unit that can't roll a run move. Can't be done. I know you like bikes, and I know you are very invested in this. I also know most of the 40k community would let you get away with this. I wouldn't, nor would any knowledgable TOs ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It's not as simple as that. The bike can't run. Turboboost does not = run. 'Units' roll a d6 to determine a run movement. If a bike is part of a unit, then there is a model in the unit that cannot run. If that model cannot run, it cannot roll a run move. By rolling a run move for the unit, you are rolling a run move for a unit that can't roll a run move. Can't be done. Until you can point me towards a page that says that explicitly, I will have to reiterate my stance that you are making an inference. It doesn't even make sense, anyways. A bike would be able to make a turboboost move while a unit runs as long as the bike is further away than 2 inches in the movement phase, but as soon as its in coherency, neither can move in the shooting phase? Yeah, ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alluminas Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 “Characters and moving Characters follow the movement rules for models of their type, whether Infantry, Jump Infantry, Bikes, etc. However, remember that they must maintain unit coherency with any unit they are in” page 535 As long as they end within their 2" they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 The onus is not on me, it's on you. Give me a page reference where it says units that can't run are allowed to run. Running is a unit wide action. Not a model specific action. If a "unit" runs, it can't shoot. Even if a specific model with a lascannon doesn't move with it's run move, it still can't shoot, because the unit ran. Bikes cannot run, so even if they don't move, they technically ran if a roll was made for them and their unit. That is illegal. The logic behind it is similar to Terminators being unable to sweep. A Terminator IC prevents its unit from sweeping, even if it doesn't involve itself in the action and wants to attempt to maintain coherency after the consolidate. That is because sweep is a unit wide action. Another example is 'go to ground'. If one model in a unit can't go to ground, the unit cannot. Corvis' citation doesn't give permission for a character to perform an action is not allowed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alluminas Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 “Different Movement Distances Within a Unit Sometimes, a unit will contain models that move at different speeds. When this is the case, each model can move up to its maximum movement allowance so long as it remains in unit coherency (see the next page).” Page 383 It's seems that you just don't want it to work and I'm not really trying to convince you but you can also read page 384. And then the run entry under shooting. Your argument so far lacks any references to support your assertion so I can't agree with your argument. Have fun with the discussion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Your quote is about movement distances. This argument has nothing to do with movement distances. This is about whether bikes are allowed to run. Which they aren't. 1. Unit with bike in it wants to run. 2. That requires Bike to involve itself in the action. 3. But it's not allowed to. 4. ??? Terminators can't sweep, fearless units can't go to ground, bikes can't run. These are restrictions that unfortunately don't cease to change when they join a unit. For unit wide 'actions', these restrictions then restrict the unit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Turbo-boost p 63 "Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead of firing in their Shooting phase." So yes, Bikes can't run... but they can make a Turbo-boost instead. So... yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 We already knew that, but it's not running. It's not a form of running. It's a separate rule. Just so you guys know, I'm not arguing this to piss you off, I'm doing it because it's my honest interpretation of the rules, which others have agreed with. For this reason, I specifically passed up putting my Libby on a bike (to escort Dante). He has an (inferior) jump pack instead, as I don't want to prohibit run moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Run is performed by the whole unit, and every model in the unit would Run if you rolled for it. So now you're faced with the old "No sweeping advances if you have a terminator in your unit, because otherwise you'd be telling the terminator to make a sweeping advance" style result. If a model in the unit cannot run, then the unit cannot run, because the Run rules say that everyone counts as running even if they didn't move. The rules would have to say that bikes can turbo-boost instead of running in order for a mixed unit to run at all. But that's not stopping you from trying to convince another player to let you, I personally wouldn't mind unless it involved something really cheesy, but the rules are pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Thread is getting derailed, there are 15-20 threads discussing this topic, mostly regarding Chaos Spawn and Lord on bike which is very similar. I'd say houserule it and check with TO for tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Back on topic; I fielded a 10man SG (all swords + banner), a SP (pw), and a Librarian. Dante was also in my list but I broke him off to fight a Contemptor. These guys tore through everything but the clincher for me was, the giant blob of CSM terminators + Lord. The lack of AP2 didn't matter at all because of the sheer weight of numbers. They hit on 3's due to the SP and re-rolled everything due to Prescience. In 2 assault phases the terminators were wiped out. I think if you don't want to take Dante the relic JP is good idea, it's only 10 points more than a standard JP. I did use the Veritas Vitea as well which gave me Move Through Cover (ruins), so they could potentially ds into ruins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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