Newbie looking for help with Style of Army

[Meps]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to 40k in many respects. I've followed it for years but never played a game myself. I'm looking for some help getting my head straight on how I want to play guard and formulating a list from that thought pattern. I figured I would list my likes and dislikes and throw some suggestions around to help you guys help me. Hopefully form there I can begin putting something together.

 

Likes

• Structure - I like Infantry Platoon structure and command structure so will be looking to include CCS and Platoons
• Fluff - My army has to make sense, i need to develop a back story yet and can obviously be flexible but this should play a part
• Humanity - I like the "human" aspect of my army to shine through, its why i picked AM. So I dont want an army where I have next to no bodies on the table such as an armoured list
• Interactivity - I like my units to merge well together - I want to be able to combine their firepower in unique ways to support each other rather than just decking out a unit to handle whatever comes at them.
• Sentinels - I really like the models - I know they have mixed reviews but I would like to find a way of utilising them
• Mobility - I like mobile armies - not to keen on the idea of a gunline.
• Out the box thinking - I don't enjoy playing a cookie cutter army. I like something a little different at times.

I concluded this leads me towards an Order based army focused around Infantry platoons - getting the men where I need them and providing the support they need to keep them there.

I think the start of my list looks like this... (I'm going to aim for 1000pts with a "vs all comers" attitude)

Company Command Squad

 

This will be my warlord - As such he will be sat somewhere at the back, issuing orders to my back line - I need to find a way to protect him and make use of his BS4 Veterans - I am open to idea how to kit them out. 2 Rules. I want him to stay fairly cheap as he will get targeted and killed. I want him to protect himself somehow from incoming fire.

 

Infantry Platoon

 

I want my infantry platoon to be able to advance forwards foot slogging if need be. So i think heavy weapons are out.  I want to base them around units of 20 (maybe 30) men. I quite like the idea of each platoon having 1 x Armoured Fist Squad aswel to provide some fire power from the chimera. and 10 expendable men who can move a little faster and be used provide a meat shield in advance.

 

Platoon Command Squad

 

BS3 leaves melta and plasma out the window - im thinking Grenade launchers. but would you take flamers? 4x Flamers just doesn't seem to fit well fluff wise.

• Officer: Boltgun
• Special Weapons: Grenade Launchers x4

Infantry Squad x2 (20 men)

• Sergeant: Boltguns
• Special Weapons: Grenade Launchers

Infantry Squad x1 (10 Men)

• Sergeant: Boltgun
• Heavy Weapon: Heavy Bolter / Autocannon
• Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
• Chimera - Multi-laser + Heavy Flamer

Special Weapon Squad x1

• 3x Flamer
• Possibly a demo charge?

Heavy Weapons Teams x2 (Sit at the back with my warlord providing some heavier fire

• Autocannon Team x3
• Autocannons / Lascannons x3 (Not a huge fan of Lascannons but I need a reliable way of taking out threats)

 

 

What this has to offer

 

A small back line with some descent firepower but an obvious need for some form of protection

 

An small infantry blob with a dedicated Officer to give them an order each turn (allowing them to move quickly if needed).

 

A chimera with 10men with a heavy and special weapon that can fire from the hatch. I can also edit the composition slightly and load up the SWS in the chimera and put the 10men at the back as a support gunline. This allows the interactivity between my units.

The SWS is the sacrificial lamb for my infantry squad. Providing some defense against assault. Worst case scenario my enemy tries to focus them giving them a cover save behind my other men and an extra turn of safety for blob. If they die... so what its 6 guardsmen.

How would you edit what I have and what would be your next step in expanding it?

Ty for your time.

 

 

 

 

[Meps]

Hmm sorry justn oticed the title. Looks like it mess up. If a mod could change it maybe that would be gr8

[steellegionnaire85]

Flamers are great when taking objectives. They ignore cover. So they would be good for platoon squads. Use plasma and melta guns on veterans and command squads with bs4. Also veterans work well in chimeras to lead the charge forward creating a mobile pillow, and giving platoon squads cover. Also heavy weapon squads are a must. I personally use missile launchers and autocannons because both are versatile on the battlefield. I use veterans to clear objectives with firepower and platoon squads to hold objectives. Your commander can't be too far from the squads that you are giving orders to, so usually I keep two platoon squads back have them combine, and shield weapons teams and the commander.

[Thoqqu]

You might enjoy using scout sentinels with autocannons. Relatively cheap and decent firepower that can outflank. 6 AC shots to side or rear armor is generally an unpleasant surprise.

[elmo]

You can change the title to something more fitting by editing your first post.

 

 

Welcome to the Astra Mili... Imperial Guard ;)

 

This is the right place to ask for advice and I am sure our more savvy guardsmen will come good in short order.

[CommissarZac]

I know you want a more infantry themed army but don't underestimate what even one leman russ can do for you.

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the hobby and 40k Meps :D From your listed likes it looks like you've picked the perfect army as Guard can do all of those things well :) A combined arms force is flexible and capable so you can do a lot with it, plus there are many ways to build such a list :D

 

For mobility and protection you can't beat mounting your Guardsmen in a transport. Chimeras make for good fire platorms too as well as letting command squads issue orders from safely within. Flamers and grenade launchers are my favourite upgrades for Guardsmen as they are cheap and flexible (fluff wise you can arm them with whatever you like), but you do need some stronger weaponry.

 

A bit of plasma and melta goes a long way to tackling hard targets, but BS4 is preferred obviously. Vehicles are a good way to mount larger weapons and Sentinels can be very good if used properly especially outflanking some. Do you have some models and a paint scheme in mind?

[Meps]

Thanks for the responses thus far,

 

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@Thoqq - That is how i plan to use my sentinels I think - I just hear they dont survive long enough to be impactful?

 

@steellegionaire55 - I think missile launcher look fantastic, my only issue with them is they seem a little lack-luster. Frag targets light - medium  infantry which I feel my own infantry will be doing. And krak is 1 shot, a killer for BS3 which the draw back of not having the bonuses that lascannons do against vehicles. If you could justify why they are better (maybe with Flakk?) id love to include them.

@Elmo - Thank you!

@COmmissar Zac - Yes i want infantry but im happy to take armour - just not a fully armoured list. And it had to synergise well with my men.

 

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@WarriorFish - I have a few models I have put together and undercoated my first infantry squad (Boltgun GL 8x Lasguns). Im making a second of these squads and maybe a platoon command and that will b e my models used up bar some heavy weapons teams.

I can't decide on a colour scheme. Im a newbie painting and a perfectionist so dont want to waste model after model trying new ones out. Also Im not gr8 at choosing the layers that go on top so need to put some real thought into it. The Warrhammer TV guide on youtube is great but Im not sure i want standard cadian colours.

I feel the need to incorporate veterans in some capacity for the BS4 and plasma/melta despite disliking the fact they fall out of the platoon structure. Standard set-up seems to be to run them in chimeras which I dont like becuase

1. Not all SW's can fire out the chimera
2. Any vets firing lasguns from chimera loose BS4
3. Not running much other armour they become a beacon yelling to be shot at
4. It seems like a big point sink to have 2 models fire plasma at BS4 moving round the map.

Doctrines look interesting allowing me to use Vets as like a Recce platoon but not sure if there is a way to give them infiltrate or scout to push them up field to fullfill this role. Any ideas?

[hendrik]

how about instead of 1 chimera per platoon you make 1 dedicated chimera mounted platoon? this way the mounted platoon could be 1 actual platoon and you could use numbers etc to give them roles? (it's purely a fluff thingy though).

have a read on this article. It's a very good read about what types of regiemnts there are, and how to create your own:

http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_fanon:How_to_make_a_fanon_Imperial_Guard_Regiment

by the information you've supplied so far i'm thinking either a light infantry regiment, or a standard infantry regiment is what you want.

don't be afraid to dedicate your regiment to this single branch, as often multiple regiments join forces together, so if you ever find you want to field leman russes, or artillery, just make up an additional regiment (it could be from the same howeworld, just another thide, but you could also make a completely different regiment with it's own seperate coloursheme, and distinct uniform( this especially easy on tanks since you'll only need to convert 1 tank commander, so you could have a well camouflaged, light infantry regiment, fighting alongside a bombastic more feudal like armoured regiment. whatever you want you can do it, not to mention this gives you a break from repeating the same colour sheme)

 

list wise i would suggest not to diss the meltagun that easy. Sure, it's only a BS3 model,, but the main power of that melta is area denial! by placing 1 meltagun in that infantry squad your opponent might suddently feel not so keen anymore to rush into you. Especially infantry squads in chimeras armed with meltaguns make a very potent unit!

[Meps]

@Hendrik - The same thought had crossed my mind with the fluff, I see my playable army as a "Company" within a Regiment The company Itself would have have a structure like

Company Command (CCS)

4x Platoons

• Support Platoon (Heavy Weapons Teams - unsure if i want a small body guard of 20 men + PCS or just to take them from my other platoons in terms of the force organsation chart but label them as their own platoon)
• Mechanised Platoon (Infantry Squads in Chimeras ) 
• 2x RIfle Platoons (2x 20men in each)

then dependant on list I would figure out the relationship to this unit of any elites / armour I take. I would build all of them but then choose who to take in each fight.

My only issue with this set-up is figuring out a use for the PCS in the Mach platoon. He cant give orders to embarked units and isn't dangerous enough in himself to cause a big threat. This is why I like the idea of a mixed platoon 2x Armoured Fist Squads 2x Infantry Sqauds. As fluff wise, it gives each PCS a foot slogging force to boss around (this is only a fluff things obviously as gamewise I could just use the PCS on foot ordering other ground troops)

 

Your simple point about the melta has really opened my eyes. I had initially dismissed plasma / melta on infantry squads as they normally want to fire at different targets to lasguns so waste the firepower of lasguns, top that with BS3 and you shoot urself in the foot even further. However, an infantry squad in chimera pretty much split fires, the only other weapon that would be wasted is whatever else was firing from the chimeras hatch - most likely a boltgun.

My issue with 1 melta in a chimera with BS3 though is i have to move upto 12" of a vehicle and have less than 50% chance of doing something.

[hendrik]

a PCS with 2 flamers and 1 heavy flamer in a chimera is a very dangerous threat to infantry, in fact, it'll roast about anything! and if 3 flamer templates aren't enough yet you can always swap the chimeras multilaser to an additional heavy flamer, in addition to the hull mounted heavy flamer. that's 115 pts for 3 heavy flamer templates, 2 flamer templates and 2 lasgun arrays! sure, you'll need to get close, but when you do, boy oh boy! this unit doesn't need to be played aggresive too, you can also use it to hang back (although i would recommend giving it HF+ML) and use it as a counter assault unit to protect your gunlines. note that this unit costs as much as a standard infantry sqd in a chimera, without upgrades. sure, that unit gets to fire 6 more lasguns, but IMO those can not compare to all those templates (note you measure from the hull!)

 

also, the issue with the meltagun is not what it will do, but what it can do! more than once my opponent has completely redeployed all his armour to another flank out of fear of my 4 meltagun totting armoured fist squads. Fear is a weapon you should not underestimate...

 

 

 

Now al this talk about setting things ablaze makes me want to barbecue!

[steellegionnaire85]

In my opinion the missile launcher is a multirole weapon three different ammunition types as allows it to be anti infantry with a fragmentation round anti vehicles and heavy infantry with the Krakow and a flakk round knocks flyers out of the sky.

 

I have been playing a long time. Most guard officers underestimate the missile launcher. They use auto and las cannons to their advantages. I have played ten plus games against storm ravens and ten plus games against chaos/eldar/necron flyers. 8 times out of 10 I drop their flyers to missile launchers. Likewise I have 9 Heavy Weapons Squads in my army the three squads of missile launchers always get use.

 

It's the difference between carrying a bowtie knife and a multitool. The bowtie knife is great for one maybe two jobs but the multitool can do a he'll of a lot more than just one or two jobs.

[Meps]

@steelleionaire85

Thanks for backing up your point. I really do want to incorporate them in as i've always loved the models and i think the versitility would synergise well with my other units giving my infantry the extra support when needed and providing some harder firepower if something a little tougher or specialised comes to the board.

The points is just a little too off putting though. If i choose to fire Frag Missiles I could have taken mortars which have barrage and cost 20 pts less. Wasting 60 pts that turn.

The other 2 options sure do have their advantages, but i almost feel like if i took mortars i could use those 60 pts towards another solution. 

[hendrik]

for skyfire units the only units worth taking are hydras (least viable AA), sabre platforms (great!) or hydra emplacements (great as well)

[WarriorFish]

GW fluffed with flakk, they're too expensive on missile launchers (or perhaps it is the ML that is too expensive?) :( They can work though, as with anything as long as you understand how to use them. Versatility is a conscious decision and as ever comes with sacrifices - a good general merely makes the ones he knows he can work with ;)

[Thoqqu]

I run my own sentinels armoured and with plasma. Priority target for opponent but so is... deathstrike... or leman rush demolisher... or company command squad with all kind of goodies... or massive blob ready to blind everything in sight with their flashlights.

Trick is that you have plenty of stuff that is dangerous and you make the decision making hard on the other side of the table.

An other vital point is that you don't overcommit in one area.

[Meps]

Been giving things some more thought and I want to explore 2 options which hopefully I could have some feedback on.

1. I really like Mortars/Wyverns. My more light infantry theme makes me gravitate towards mortars but obviously the wyvern is pure evil so must be highly considered. However the 2 share very similiar targets. Light - Medium infantry.

My concern is, if i go infantry heavy, would the wyvern/mortars fit as they target the same people as my infantry... would i be packing too much light-medium infantry killers? Are there good ways to change up my infantry platoons to let them have other targets without making too much lasgun firpeower redundant my mixing weapons too much.

2. If I do go with mortars over the wyvern (yes even i think its crazy, but it would be down the the theme of my army). How do i get the most out of them? Keep them in heavy weapon squads or mix them into my platoon infantry squads for anice cheap way of including them?

[hendrik]

when you're comparing wyverns directly to mortar squads the wyverns will always come out on top, unless it's an assault/tarpitting a unit.

that being said, an armies theme can give a certain sense to it so if you truely wish to make an all rounder infantry regiment, i'dd say forgo the wyverns and get 1-2 mortar squads. Hide these units out of LOS and have them shooting away at some distant enemy infantry your lasguns can not reach yet.

If you're more willing to switch the theme of the regiment a bit (or include multiple regiments) you might also consider the heavy mortar/earthshaker carriage emplacements. they cost almost as much as a full mortar squad (heavy mortar is cheaper, the earthshaker carriage slightly more expensive). either option is IMO a bit more efficient than the simple mortar. that being said, a double mortar team has often been part of the backbone of my infantry heavy lists before everything became scoring

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, the humble mortar is outshined by the Wyvern but it has it's own strengths - easy enough to skulk around in cover and scoring. Of course as hendrik says if you want a pure infantry force than mortars become better, as a couple of Chimera chassis in an armour light list tend not to last too long even hiding behind cover.

 

I still use a mortar squad, I never leave home without them almost! It's also easy to build them along with other HWTs from the box :) If you do take mortars they're best in squads, though one in a back field command squad to give them something to do isn't a bad idea.

[Meps]

@Hendrik - What are these heavy mortars you speak of? I dont see them in the codex

[hendrik]

@Hendrik - What are these heavy mortars you speak of? I dont see them in the codex

that's because they are non codex entries. you can find their rules in imperial armour,volume one,second edition. it's basically the same gun as was mounted on the old griffon, but as a carriage instead so T7 etc.

the book contains a whole lot of interesting units, so is definetly worth looking up, although this sort of equipment is more befitting a siege regiment than a (light) infantry regiment.

[Meps]

What are the rules for using these books in a normal AM regiment? Would i need the ok from my opponent or is it considered standard?

[WarriorFish]

Officially you could take them as allies, but in reality FW stuff often relies on opponent's consent (arguably everything does...). This is especially so if you want to effectively add unit choices to the Guard codex.

[CommissarZac]

 

 

My issue with 1 melta in a chimera with BS3 though is i have to move upto 12" of a vehicle and have less than 50% chance of doing something.

 

If I may further preach the glories of armor.  2 tanks could help your grunts immensely.  1st I would take a Leman russ Punisher with pask.  Load it up with Heavy bolters and a heavy stubber.  This gives you 32 shots at BS4, with 20 of those shots being rending.  This will decimate blobs and glance armor to death.  2nd I would take a Leman Russ Vanquisher.  This will allow you to pop enemy armor from across the table.  The Vanquisher basically gets to used the "Melta" rule of 2d6 for armor pen, from 72" away.  load it out with a hull las cannon and melta sponsons to deal with closer threats.  3rd keep the tanks in the midst of your blobs.  Much like the grunts of WW2 Armor was meant to support Infantry.  A great example of the synergy between armor and infantry is in the movie Fury.  When They go and take out the German gun emplacements.   They go slowly acting as a huge shield for the grunts behind them.  And once the Big threats are neutralized the grunts get to mop up.  The downside:  2 leman russes especially the ones i mentioned are relatively expensive points wise but will be  (205 for the punisher and 165 for the vanquisher) but in my opinion well worth the points.  good luck

[Meps]

Thanks CommisarZac, a really good post providing a solution I didnt consider

 

Im drawn more to including "some" armour as Ive come to realise that if i play a wyvern or chimera with no other bigger threats, these "lesser" tanks will just draw all the heavier firepower. Ensuring they die before they can do anything. Im going to need something to bring the focus away from them.