HelBrute: A discussion and Analysis

[maverike_prime]

Okay, so I'm doing a bit of a theoretical deep dive and examination of several of the "worthless" or 'not usable' units in the Chaos Space Marine Codexes. In this post I'm going to post my take and analysis of the unit in question, and then I'd like feed on the unit and my analysis. I’ve already begun threads of the same type that deal with the Thousand Sons, Khorne Berzerkers and Forgefiends. This thread I want to look at the HelBrute. For consistency sake I will be referring to the unit in question as a HelBrute and not a Chaos Dreadnought.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/maverike_prime/helbrute-sized_zpsd0f2f3f9.png
 
So, what do we get for the HelBrute? Lets take a look at it. It’s base cost is 100 points and for that 100 points you get a WS/BS 4 S6 walker with 12 front and side armor and 10 rear armor. It’s initiative 4 with 2 attacks and 3 hull points. It starts with a Multi-melta, and a power fist with a built in twin-linked bolter that can add a twin-linked bolter for 5 points..  Stat-wise it’s point for point a direct match to it’s loyalist counterpart, the Space Marine Dreadnought.  It does need to be noted that the Dreadnought does come with search light and smoke launchers as standard while the HelBrute does not have access to upgrades. While there are considerable similarities between the HelBrute and Dreadnought, and on the surface it seems like the helBrute is coming up short in comparison to the Dreadnought.  While I can follow the logic of this thought, I am going to disagree with it for reasons I will explain later in this post. I want to finish looking at the HelBrute as a unit before I get going on battle field role and uses.
 
The largest difference between a HelBrute and a Dreadnought is the “Crazed” special rule for the HelBrute. The short version of this rule is that the HelBrute is totally 100% with-out recourse crazy, so when it is shot at or takes damage it get angry. When it takes a glancing hit or a penetrating but isn’t destroyed, you roll a D3 and look at a chart to see what the big guy does. On a 1 the dreadnought can not move and fires all of it’s weapons at the closest target. Twice. And preferably the target the caused the hit. So I’ve got a reaper auto-cannon and a power fist with a twin-linked bolter. That I now fire twice. Okay, not a negative. It can be problematic due to the immobilization effect from the roll, but if it’s in the open it’s a nice result that will dish out some serious pain.
 
On a result of 2 the HelBrute gets Rage and immediately recovers from crew shaken and crew stunned results. Hmm… what oh what am I ever going to do with a HelBrute that now gets 2 attacks on the charge? Yeah, I’m gonna charge something if I can.  Lastly if I roll a 3 it gets blood rage, which is the same as the 2 result but it gains fleet in addition to rage and it must run toward the closest enemy unit.
 
Okay, so a bit of not-exactly good special rule that adds a lot of character to the HelBrute.  Okay that’s really a negative but I can see how it falls under the “Reasons I don’t want to use this unit” column.  So what about options for the big brute? Well it’s got a decent list of options but they are all weapons and none of them really change what it is. I’ll explain what I mean after I go over the options.
 
It can replace it’s multi-melta with a 2^nd power fist, a Twin-linked heavy bolter, a reaper autocannon, a Plasma cannon, or a Twin-linked Lascannon.  Okay so I can exchange it’s short-ranged weapon  for a second close combat weapon or other ranged weapons. Nothing really bad among the lot. Plasma cannon is nice in itself, and the Helbrute is one of the few platforms in the Chaos space marine Codex that can take one so if you’re looking to do a plasma cannon thing it has the option. A Twin-linked Lascanon is never a bad option, but this does make the HelBrute 125 points. Not bad over all.
 
It has a further 2 more options  where it can replace any power fist with a Thunder Hammer or a Power Scourge.  The Thunder hammer is a bit of an interesting option for the HelBrute. It’s effectively a power fist that is also concussive. At the surface it seems rather mediocre to be on a HelBrute, a further 5 points for something it essentially already has. I’ll be honest, when I was assembling this write up I tried to find a way to reliably make use of the Thunderhammer on a HelBrute, and I did find some situations where it could give the edge to the HelBrute. If it were facing a WraithLord for instance. Both the Wratihlord and HelBurte will be striking at I4 S10 AP2 while both are hitting on 4s. If the HelBrute has a Power Fist and Thunder hammer it has the same number of attacks as a the Wraithlord. So both combatants would be very evenly matched in the fight. Assuming that the fight goes on longer than 1 round, the 2^nd round will likely go to the Helbrute because of the concussive special rule from the Thunder Hammer. The Wraith Lord will be striking at I1, unless it suffered 0 wounds in the first round. See what I mean? Yes, the Thunder Hammer can be used but the benefits of it are so stream lined and situational I’m thinking it’s not worth taking. Have a different view on the Thunder Hammer? Lets talk about it. I welcome others views on it.
 
The other option, the Power scourge is a new entry to the weapon options though it was originally meant to be a means to use the ‘power rake’ from the 2^nd Edition metal Chaos Dreadnought model in the current game.  It’s a S8 AP2 weapon that causes all models in base contact to loose D3 from their WS. Okay, that is note worthy. Hey Mr. Wraith Lord! I’m gonna come charge you! Oh lookie you’re WS 2 now. So I hit you on 3+ while you hit me on 4+.
 
Now, I said earlier that I didn’t consider the lack of smoke launchers or Search light to be a negative for the HelBrute in comparison to Loyalist Dreadnoughts. My reasoning for this is one of story and fluff. Loyalists look to their Dreadnoughts as beacons of inspiration, links to their glorious past and icons of valor. Being placed into the armored sarcophagus of a dreadnought is considered a great honor, and one reserved for the most honored and revered of the Chapters heroes.  A Chaos HelBrute… erm… well it’s more of an eternal punishment. Basically, we’re going to take you, shove into this wet, dark hole in this body that is going to physically violate you in ways you don’t want to imagine. It’s literally going to shove rustly metal spikes into your skull to grow disgusting sickly tentacles into your brain that will very likely drive you insane. Oh, and then it gets worse. Yeah everything I just said was going to happen to you? That’s going to be eternal. And on very rare occasions we’ll take that pulsing blob of mass that will be your body and stick into that armored body so we can basically wind you and point you at the enemy. 
 
For the forces of Chaos, HelBrute are an ugly means to an end. They are the ability to use what was probably a former rival for power in the warband but was a highly skilled warrior in their own right, and turn them into a weapon. They’re not intended to be tactically effective the way a Dreadnought is. So while the loyalist dreadnought gets a searchlight and smoke launchers, I think the lack of them is a good example of how while there can be similar units in different armies, the armies do not use them the same way and they are not valued the same to each army, fluff wise.
Now, discussing the use of the HelBrute has gotten a bit more involved since the 6^th edition Chaos Space Marine codex was released.  Initially a HelBrute was contending for list space with the likes of Chosen, Possessed, Chaos Terminators,  Mutilators, Khorne Berzerkers, Nurgle Plague Marines, Slaanesh Noise Marines, and Thousand Son Marines.  Yikes, that’s a pretty heavy elites section. And even though 2 of those units can be moved to troops easily enough, with the selection of a properly marked lord and/or Sorcerer, that still leaves a lot of options to compete for space from that section of the list. Want some Mid-range firepower? Those Noise Marines look pretty good. Staying Power? A 5 man unit of Plague Marines are going to stick around longer then a HelBrute.  And then the rest of the Elites section is a bit of a so-so fest anyway.  I’ve already talked about the Thousand Sons and Khorne Berzerkers in their own respective threads, and I’ll be talking about Mutilators, Chosen and Possessed in the near future.  But over all the HelBrute really appears something of a really cool concept that’s a so-so unit in game, that’s competing with numerous other so-so units.
 
Now I had said things had changed somewhat since the Codex was published. Did the Helbrute get some FAQ love? Well, yes it did. It dropped from 105 to it’s current 100, and it got some clarification of rules but nothing really earth-shattering from that direction. No, what the HelBrute got was a Data Slate with 3 new formations. Since Formations are used outside of detachments this sort of removes the “competing with the rest of the elite section’ dilemma for the HelBrute.
 
The first of the formations is known as the HelFist Murderpack. Basically it’s a squad of HelBrutes with one of them acting as the ‘champion’. The Pack Leader is the lynch pin in this formation. Firstly it’s a character so it can issue and accept Challenges. So you can play some musical wounds  with Look out Sir rolls and a WarpSmith that’s close by. Also, so long as the Pack leader is alive you get to choose what effect from the Crazed table applies to ALL of the Helbrutes in the formation. Oh those Orks shot at me, guess who’s getting charged?  If the pack Leader is killed all the other HelBrutes gain the rage special rule. So the Helfist Murderpack… yesss this looks fun.
 
The Second formation is meant to be a bone thrown to Word Bearer players. It’s called The HelCult. The idea is that some Chaos Forces look at Helbrutes as some form of altar to the gods or avatar of them, so they will fight close to it in order to be seen by the gods. The Helcult represents this by allowing you to deploy a HelBrute with 2 units of Chaos Cultists as a single unit. In short, your HelBrute now has 70 ablative wounds. The Helbrute also gains the Rage special rule in this formation, but when it is in combat any to-hits of 1 are taken on the Cultists. So… okay. You’ve got 70 of ‘em right? A nice extra is that the Cultists and the Helbrute both have fearless so long as the HelBrute is alive. Nice little option for objective camping.
 
Lastly we have the Mayhem pack, a 3 HelBrute formation. So you take 3 HelBrutes, get ‘em really pissed off, and then deep strike them onto the field.  Oh, and they have It Will Not Die.  Okay, I am liking this. This formation does a bit of a foot note to it with the crazed rule. Basically in this formation, you make a single roll on the Crazed table at the beginning of the movement phase each turn and apply the result to all of the HelBrutes in the formation.
 
So yeah, HelBrutes got some nice game-love with the new formations. Still, it’s rare to see these debased, evil constructs on the field.
Well I think there are 2 major reasons for this. Firstly, vehicles over all simply aren’t as powerful as they once were. They are still good for what they are, but on the whole vehicles aren’t the monsters that they once were. While this isn’t something explicitly about the HelBrute, it does suffer from the fall out from it. Armor 12 can easily be glanced to death by… well… a lot of things. Plasma guns,  Autocannons, Missile Launchers, Vibro Cannons, the list goes on. And anything that’s S8 or better is even more likely to glance away it’s 3 HPs if not destroy it outright. So the HelBrute is a victim of the Vehicle nerfing that came down in 6^th and 7^th edition.
 
The second reason I think we don’t see the HelBrute very often is it’s really only a so-so unit. It’s best strength is in close combat, but it’s outclassed by the Maulerfiend, while it can be outshot by… well… almost anything in the codex. A group of Noise Marines can lay down more shots then a HelBrute can. Ranged Tank busting ability? Winged Daemon Prince. Anti-infantry? The HelDrake. The HelBrute is good at all of these things, but it’s out classed by other units in the codex to say nothing of allies.
 
So that’s my take on the Chaos HelBrute. You’re thoughts?

[the jeske]

No pods

Av12 no inv and not a skimer

Meh selection of weapons

unplayable outside of formations, and even then you have want to play cultists or multiple dreads.

Crazed does not help it.

[Carrack]

It may not be indicative of most of 40K, and I may not have a ton of experience, but at low 500 point games, their versatility is a greater asset. In these low point games they will not face as much anti tank, and your units are more likely to be called upon to perform multiple roles.

[Strazhakov]

My best experiences with the Helbrute were with the Mayhem Pack. 

[maverike_prime]

They are really useful when deepstriking and blasting Ectoplasma everywhere. For under 400 pts you get a unit of crazy dreads with Ectoplasma (S8 ftw against loyalist scum) and Power Scourges (hella good against anything btw)

Wait, where are you getting Ectoplasma cannons for helbrutes? Did I miss a new dataslate or something.

[Slaanbull]

Ectoplasma? Our helbrutes can buy regular plasma cannons that are still strength 7, unless I'm mistaken.

[Lucio]

The Helcult is indeed useful for objective camping, and has definitely won me games by having a Fearless unit which must be wiped out. For a mayhem pack, the key thing is to get them close enough to a target worth at least 300pts, such as a Land Raider with squad inside, Leman Russ Squadron or similar. Chances are high that you can at least take this one target out before it gets you.

[Dallas Drake]

I regularly field a Helcult, I arm the Helbrute with TL-Lascannons and Missile Launcher mostly.

 

Also, I've played the Mayhem Pack a few times recently, whilst it's not awful (I keep it cheap with Multimelta and Power fist x3) I do find it suffers from deep strike scatter quite badly. Also, like already mentioned, AV12 isn't great too. Maybe if it had an invulnerable save or could be marked? One thing I am leaning towards tactics-wise is deep striking all 3 of them close-ish together, everytime I've deep striked them onto the battlefield all spread out they've been dealt with individually too easily. I might try plonking them down in one place, close together you have a chance of overwhelming an enemy or refusing a flank, or maybe even getting a cover save off each other.

 

I'll still use both formations in the dataslate because they're fun & the new models are lovely, plus a Helcult might win me a game now and then!

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

When i run them i dont run the formations i generally either run them bare bones or with a TL lascannon or a plasma cannon

[Lord Pariah]

crimson slaughter upgrade all plasma weapons to ectoplasma weapons...

 

I use hellbrutes as they come: multimelta and powerfist... great for scaring your opponent and anti-tank.

 

been thinking about getting one for lighter infantry killing, but unsure what to kit it with....

 

 

if any of you have the forgeworld chaos dreadnoughts, how do they actually compare?

[brother_contagion]

I think Helbrutes are completely underrated. I have had great success with them (then again, I've always loved Dreadnought anything), and now with the formations, almost without fail when I take my Helbrutes I use the Mayhempack formation because what's more awesome than DS Multi-Melta/Plasma Cannon Dreadnoughts that have a 2 out of 6 chance to double tap those weapons in the heart of enemy lines?

 

People like to throw them under the bus, but I have always found them effective =]

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Ive found a brute with plasma cannon real effective tbh it sits back and can annoy the hell out of the opponent

[Terkael]

One small note, you have to pay to get the TL bolter on the powerfist arm.

[Kythnos]

crimson slaughter upgrade all plasma weapons to ectoplasma weapons...

 

Never heard about that. What page of the CS supplement is this rule supposed to be on?

[maverike_prime]

crimson slaughter upgrade all plasma weapons to ectoplasma weapons...

 

I use hellbrutes as they come: multimelta and powerfist... great for scaring your opponent and anti-tank.

 

been thinking about getting one for lighter infantry killing, but unsure what to kit it with....

 

 

if any of you have the forgeworld chaos dreadnoughts, how do they actually compare?

huh? Never heard about this. Where is that in the Supplement?

 

Wait I think I found it. There's a Cities of Death stratagem that makes all plasma weapons Strength 8. But that is limited to Cities of Death games. I'm guess Pariah plays a lot of Cities of Death Games.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

I've also been having a lot of great experince with Helbrute in my own games.  I've been useing a single Helbrute ether arm with Twin Linked Lascannon (Forge World model) or Autocannon (useing my converted Contemptor Dreadnought or classic metal Dreadnought model).

 

I've been useing the lone Helbrute to support my Obliterators.  From holding object & giving supporting fire to the rest of my army.  To counter attacking, charging into units with both Helbrute & Obliterator units. 

Just always been really impress in ever game I've use them.
 

I've try the Mayhem formation in one game so far but ended up miss-scattering & oppent got to place the unit.  Hopeful get a few more games in the future with them.  As I like the idea of the unit support my Lord, Sorcerer & Terminators bodyguard, also just use some of the psychic power my Sorcerer might get like re-roll hits, ignore cover, etc... :D
I'm also wanting to try add the formation that allow me five Helbrute in the future.

[tikhunt]

I've always seen Helbrutes as quite an underrated unit in the codex and plan on building around 5-8 using Contemptors, Possessed Contempters, Forgeworld Chaos Dreadnaughts and regular Helbrutes. It's an addiction.

[Sception]

I've try the Mayhem formation in one game so far but ended up miss-scattering & oppent got to place the unit. Hopeful get a few more games in the future with them. As I like the idea of the unit support my Lord, Sorcerer & Terminators bodyguard, also just use some of the psychic power my Sorcerer might get like re-roll hits, ignore cover, etc...

I'm also wanting to try add the formation that allow me five Helbrute in the future.

The Mayhem formation helbrutes are not a single unit. They only roll one die to see which turn they appear, and all appear on the same turn, but they're still separate units and all deep strike individually.

As for camping fearless cultists with the cult formation, keep in mind that they do not have objective secured, which can be an issue. Still a decent option (I mean, if you're hel bent on fielding a chaos dread to begin with, there are worse ways to do it).

Imperial Armour 13 adds some interesting, if not exactly 'good' dreadnought options and alternatives, including:

a more expensive 'vet' dread that isn't crazy, but is still only AV12 and doesn't get the loyalist vet rule while still being more expensive (for extra Ws & Bs, not that that's what was holding brutes back). A variant of it gets front armor 13... but has to trade it's weapons for flamer/flamestorm cannon/seige drill, so...

dreads can be transported in dreadclaws, but at 100 points those dreadclaws are far from economical, and since they're always possessed, and dreads don't have an exception, you have a 1/6 chance of eating your walker before you can even hope to deliver it.

There's a sonic dread that can double shoot is sonic weaponry if it holds still... but it can't take the dual blast master it would really want to make that option worthwhile.

And of course there's the usual chaos decimators and contemptors, in all their overpriced, missing all the options that make loyalist contemptors interesting glory.

IA13's got a lot of nice stuff in it, but doesn't do much for our walkers, sadly. Ah, well.

At least the helbrute is a great model, whether we're talking about the starter box one or the multipart kit. Sigh.

[bozo69pd]

Except for low point games they are really only useable with the formations. I have 5 helbrutes, and while I was so excited for the mayhem pack, once someone pointed out to me they each deep strike in individually they made scatters way more dangerous.

 

Helcult is awesome for objectives and screening plain and simple.

 

Murderpack has become awesome to me especially at murdering super heavies like knights etc. I take 5 of these guys with multimeltas and 1 powerscourge, bring belakor (he can kill a knight by himself) then invisibilty and shroud the brutes. That's an instant deathstar right there. I also like to play daemons with this set up with horrors. Summon in more troops to fill your list. Belakor and brutes are unaffected by warpstorm table. Camp objectives and brawl with the deathstar. Belakor can also save your brutes from getting tar pitted by flying ahead and psychic shrieking a bit too.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Thanks for that Malisteen - Never really use a formation before & not many people around here.  It only been recently that formation have been use a lot more in games.  During that game I though they just arrive by deep strike like a unit but for all other reason acted as single unit as per normal for shooting & movment :D

Thanks again.

[Sception]

Arriving separately isn't necessarily better or worse. It makes it more likely that something will go wrong, but less likely that _everything_ will go wrong.

[brother_contagion]

Yeah, you roll once for the formation for reserves, but they all DS separately. I'm actually glad they're not a unit because trying to fit 3 Helbrutes in a tiny circle would be incredibly difficult!

 

 

Except for low point games they are really only useable with the formations. I have 5 helbrutes, and while I was so excited for the mayhem pack, once someone pointed out to me they each deep strike in individually they made scatters way more dangerous.

 

Helcult is awesome for objectives and screening plain and simple.

 

Murderpack has become awesome to me especially at murdering super heavies like knights etc. I take 5 of these guys with multimeltas and 1 powerscourge, bring belakor (he can kill a knight by himself) then invisibilty and shroud the brutes. That's an instant deathstar right there. I also like to play daemons with this set up with horrors. Summon in more troops to fill your list. Belakor and brutes are unaffected by warpstorm table. Camp objectives and brawl with the deathstar. Belakor can also save your brutes from getting tar pitted by flying ahead and psychic shrieking a bit too.

 

This sounds like a great idea, I'm gonna have to try that out!

[nevaenuffbass]

I can see the potential in helbrutes. I'd take 3 (never find that i am using my elite spots anyway - FA and heavy are way better). Reaper / missile, plasma / missile, reaper / scourge. They go in the same list as some havocs (autocannons) and a mauler or two. They are good fire support, and the one with the scourge is the counter assault when something else comes close. 

Ideally they remain behind an aegis. 

Similar to obliterators they can move and shoot heavy weapons, which is handy in terrain-filled tables. 

 

I wouldn't say they shine in the broad meta, but they are reasonable in the CSM book.

[Redtoof]

I've also had some success with the brutes, and I will be giving the mayhem pack a go soon. 2 meltas and a reaper for me. So far the melta has been well worth it for me.

 

I've faced up against the noise marine dreads a number of times, and they always hurt.

[Terkael]

This is quite on the gimmicky side but I have always wanted to try the 5 brute vehicle squadron with invisibility. Thats a lot of your army that practically cant be hurt.