brother_contagion Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 This is quite on the gimmicky side but I have always wanted to try the 5 brute vehicle squadron with invisibility. Thats a lot of your army that practically cant be hurt. Yeah, just throw your invisible Helbrute squad at a Knight and watch it crumple! lol, I've done a similar thing with an invis'd Helbrute who took out a Knight in CC. It was the highlight of my game =] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 That's a nasty trick. Just so long as Be'Lakor is there it's doable... Plus not exactly too OP since that's over 800 points on toys. Personally, I've had to stop taking invisibility in anything but the meanest of lists. I get little joy from it anymore & people really hate it. It sometimes feels like when I was a kid playing a computer game (Doom or Duke Nuke'em) with unlimited ammo of invincibility, fun for a very short time then everyone gets fed up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterOffShred Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I have not yet tried any of the formations, but I have 4 hellbrutes (well two converted Ven Dreads, and two hellbrutes) currently and I'd like to pick up a 5th and try some of those. That being said, I saw a few other people comment that even in standard formation I've taken one or two with plasma canon's many times.. and they always perform well. They either kill tons of stuff, or cause such a threat that the attention they are paid allows me to pull shenanigans elsewhere. I've just always been a big fan of the models, the idea of them, and how they seem to pan out on the battlefield. I'm going to have to invest in that new kit at some point when I finish my GK. -Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I finally was able to get my 5th Helbrute, and I made a list to use and try them out. In that list I'm planning on have 4 of the Helbrutes with Plasma Cannons and the Helbrute Champion with 2 DCCWs w/ Heavy Flamers, partly for over watch and also so he can wreck in challenges. I also will be getting 40 Cultists (to make a total of 60 in my collection) in the mail pretty soon, so I'm also planning on making a list to use 2 Helcult formations and a Mayhem Pack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I love playing those formations as skirmish games too, they go nice and quick. Since they are formations you can simply take that formation as your army and upgrade the murderpack champion or cultist champion to your warlord I think too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've had good luck with one with a plasma cannon supporting my mechanised Thousand sons, that may be as the rhinos, vindicators and predators attract more attention, but it's done well, I'm thinking of getting another, either twin linked heavy bolter, reaper autocannon or twin linked lascannon and power scourge, may try the formations, with the murder pack do they count as one elites slot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrack Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've had good luck with one with a plasma cannon supporting my mechanised Thousand sons, that may be as the rhinos, vindicators and predators attract more attention, but it's done well, I'm thinking of getting another, either twin linked heavy bolter, reaper autocannon or twin linked lascannon and power scourge, may try the formations, with the murder pack do they count as one elites slot? The formations are separate from the force org and do not take up any of its slots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 The formations are separate from the force org and do not take up any of its slots Note that they also don't fill a detachment's requirements, nor do they benefit from its rules. This is particularly of note for helcult cultists, which do not fill required troop slots nor do they have the objective secured rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 That hurts that one, but does make the Murderpack (GW's naming makes me worry for more legion supplements) quite nice, especially in a marine mech list, what are it's rules like'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skull Mask Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Used one Helbrute/Dreadnought with a lascannon in all of my recent games. Behind an Aegis it can actually swallow some solid shots which otherwise might be aimed at other units. It popped at least one razorback in most games and also added its powerfist to a couple of close combats. Though I rolled poorly for the fist, adding some S10 punches on I4, can make a huge difference, as it can off characters or multi-wound models with one hit. The crazed table was a real boon for me so far and never a disadvantage (might happen sometime, of course). Being able to fire a heavy weapon twice is pretty big. Also, being able to fire a single heavy weapon at any target is quite good, as you can use the brute to finish off already damaged/hurt foes. Kind of like a sniper. The dice won't always do your bidding, mind you, but it more often than not it will allow your 3 Obliterators to bring their multiple heavy shots to bear at a healthier target. I think the Helbrute is best used as a support unit, as it will be rather shortlived and won't accomplish much on its own, but can offer valuable support in concert with other units, be it as a fire magnet, sniper or heavy hitter in close combat. So far I'm not sure about using two close combat arms or a missle launcher, as it takes away much of the versatility of the unit. Rules wise I'd love to see the smoke launcher come back. Being able to run and add a 5++ for one turn would be a big improvement for Dreads with two close combat arms. I will soon add two more Dreads to my army to be able to use the Mayhem pack. The Helcult formation also sounds nice, but so far I only have 10 cultists painted and am not impressed with their performance on the battlefield. So I probably won't paint up more steel-legionaires any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGibs Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I've yet to actually find a straight answer to this, but if a helbrute rolls a fire frenzy result on the crazed table, but is locked in close combat, does he suffer the usual rules for a walker being immobilized? That is, all hits are directed against their rear armour? No one ever seems to bring this up, but it seems like a pretty major whack against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WangoFett Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I've yet to actually find a straight answer to this, but if a helbrute rolls a fire frenzy result on the crazed table, but is locked in close combat, does he suffer the usual rules for a walker being immobilized? That is, all hits are directed against their rear armour? No one ever seems to bring this up, but it seems like a pretty major whack against them. Fire frenzy, first sentence, says the helbrute is immobilised until the end of your turn. That is true whether it is engaged or not, able to fire or not. And being immobilised means close combat attacks hit rear armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Don'tcha just love it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtoof Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Another crazed question. If you are running a mayhem pack and you roll a blood rage result after you deep strike, what is you 'maximum charge range'? Is it still 12" since that is the maximum you can ever charge, meaning if you deep strike close enough you can still fire? Or is it 0" since you can't charge that turn, meaning you have to run and give up shooting no matter what? Similarly what if under normal circumstances you get the roll and are 12 inches away from an enemy through cover? Is your. Maximum charge range considered to be 12" or 10"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skull Mask Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If I understood it correctly the crazed rule only applies in the turns after a Mayhem Pack enters the battlefield, as beginning of turn abilities are skipped by units arriving from reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think that is a legitimate question, as the rule says "At the start of each of your Movement phases, make a single roll on the Crazed Table..." for the unit. If Deep Striking also takes place at the beginning of the movement phase, it's kinda screwy, no? As Iron Skull Mask said, if they aren't on the battlefield yet, it doesn't exactly make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I've yet to actually find a straight answer to this, but if a helbrute rolls a fire frenzy result on the crazed table, but is locked in close combat, does he suffer the usual rules for a walker being immobilized? That is, all hits are directed against their rear armour? No one ever seems to bring this up, but it seems like a pretty major whack against them. Fire frenzy, first sentence, says the helbrute is immobilised until the end of your turn. That is true whether it is engaged or not, able to fire or not. And being immobilised means close combat attacks hit rear armour. This^^^^ and like this!..... is why, if ever I get across the pond, I'm rounding up torches, pitchforks and my fellow chaos players and heading to Nottingham to have a "polite" conversation with the design staff... (them us) ~BtW Edit: Stupid thought, but the rule says "Crazed" is rolled at the start of the movement phase... but does it explicitly state, or mean, the overall players movement phase or the individual unit/model movement phase? Because if the Helbrute is locked in CC it doesn't take it's movement phase.. it essentially skips it, since it is unable to move, so.......???? Edit 2: Just re-read it, Crazed says "Each time a Helbrute take a glancing or penetrating hit but isn't destroyed, place a crazed marker by the model. At the start of each of your Movement phases, roll a D3 on the table below if the Helbrute has one or more crazed markers next to it. After rolling, remove all crazed markers from the Helbrute." So, yeah, it looks like it's the overall movement phase, though I still wonder about it.... Edit 3: Looks like it answers Inquisitor Quidham's question, since we only roll on it if the Helbrute has taken a glancing or pen hit. So if you are starting them in reserves they aren't likely to have taken a glance or pen yet.... If iirc, the old Crazed was an auto roll every turn, whereas now it is only if we are damaged....still sucks but better than it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Seems in the new Daemonkin Codex, Hellbrutes are a Heavy Support choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Does it matter that much. Let say they were no slot unit[without use of formation] weren't eaten by claws and didn't go crazy. Would they be worth taking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtoof Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Edit 3: Looks like it answers Inquisitor Quidham's question, since we only roll on it if the Helbrute has taken a glancing or pen hit. So if you are starting them in reserves they aren't likely to have taken a glance or pen yet.... If iirc, the old Crazed was an auto roll every turn, whereas now it is only if we are damaged....still sucks but better than it was... The mayhem pack have a special rule that makes them roll on the crazed table every turn, and apply the result to all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Does it matter that much. Let say they were no slot unit[without use of formation] weren't eaten by claws and didn't go crazy. Would they be worth taking? Yeah of course. I have always viewed these lovely nutters as support units and I've been always taking at least two to escort squads to objectives since way back in the good old days when they would go crazy blasting my own units (I loved the pure randomness of chaos), no that was interesting to deal with this version of crazed isn't even a slight issue compared to the good old days. I run with meltas or plasma cannons or a flail then couple them with a squad of plague marines or something and half the time I usually earn at least then point cost back. Other times they go up in a ball of flame sometimes acting as bait letting their escort squad get revenge. Even the greatest unit will die, utterly dismissing a unit since it it a not a one man killing army is weird, try using it in different ways and I'm sure you will come to love them as well Khorne daemonkin codex sounds like an even better reason to use them sure they are heavy but a couple of helbrutes surrounded by a blob of bloodletters or Bezerkers will really help rack up blood points and let the crazy nutters they are escorting to spill blood and skulls in the Blood God's name, if it dies you get a point you can use to get khorne's blessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 A a plasma cannon,single las cannon or a reaper does not kill much. So the racking up points will be hard to pull off. B the cost is huge. its 100pts naked for the cost of 2[and you more or less need 2 or more to make them work] you can take a dakka fiend[more shots higher strenght and inv] for shoting, a whole detachment of traitors with a wyvern[if FW is ok] or in the case of the khorn codex dogs[because god help the khorn army that isn't in melee turn 2] C 200pts gets two oblits, which are more resilient most of the time, don't go crazy and are more flexible weaponwise. Ah and it is easier to give them cover or hide them out of LoS[with rhinos] then a dread[even a LR doesn't , specialy in the case of the new plastic ones]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Ive always been fond of dreadnoughts of any kind personally :) and find this thread interesting as I'm interested in the new model just trying to find an effective way to use it. where can you find those datasheets? some of those sound pretty good fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skull Mask Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Ive always been fond of dreadnoughts of any kind personally and find this thread interesting as I'm interested in the new model just trying to find an effective way to use it. where can you find those datasheets? some of those sound pretty good fun to me. Here you can download the Helbrute formation data slate with all three formations mentioned in this thread: http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Dataslate-Helbrutes.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 got it, thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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