Americanzero Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So I have been coming back into the fold after a few years away, and I'm trying to decide what to do with my old vindicator. In the current game culture, would I be better off getting the bits and just building a razorback out of the hull? I'm looking at buying a Baal pred anyway, which would give me all the bits I need to make a razorback. What do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think Vindicators are fine, but Razorbacks are also useful tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3959784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Vindicators are great! But if you are running one, use your money to buy a second. Two fast vindicators are a force to be reckoned with on the table! The Baal Pred is sadly in a bad place right now with it being heavy support and excelling at taking out blobs of infantry, something our codex does not struggle with anywhere else! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3959787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Vindicators are probably better than Preds IMHO. 2 fast vindicators flanking a land raider with a nasty cargo makes quite an effective armoured spearheaded. Tri-las press are expensive for what they do and have suffered in an anti-tank role due to the vehicle damage table. Dakka and Baal preds suffer simply that there are better things in the HS section. If you really want a multi-shot tank, the FW Sicarran gives you more bang for your buck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Are vindicators not a bit limited when it comes to targets? Most squads will be hugging cover making the high strength and low AP irrelevant. They're also poor against MCs and tanks. The only thing they're good against is tough units like bikes and centurions but we've got other things for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think St10 AP2 Ordinance is more then effective at taking out anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think it's pretty safe to say that we have the best vindicators out of all the Space Marines Chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caine 24th Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I used to use two for a long time. They move surprisingly fast and pack a punch. I stopped using them as I didn't see as many terminators anymore and started seeing a lot of T6 monstrous creatures. I also wanted to look for more reliable fire power. With the scatter and if a unit is in cover I generally didn't kill all that much. I think the most use they had was scaring my opponent with such a threat even if it never really backed it up. I don't think they are a bad choice given their speed and ability to score. Strangely I fought two armies the other weekend at a local tourney that both used three predators w/autocannons and lascannons. They performed well. I've previously said that they weren't good, but as I got beat I'm going to have to admit I was wrong. Maybe I'll say that they can work, but aren't necessarily the best choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americanzero Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Interesting Points all around! Part of me was looking at the points consideration. Laserbacks are quite a bit cheaper than a vindi, plus they can haul a combat squad around with them. I'm wondering if I shouldn't make the vindy magnetized so I can just swap out as needed. I want to get the Baal pred one way or another for fluff reasons, so really all I will be out is a few magnets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Autolas preds are pretty legit against a lot of enemies. I'm starting to get pessimistic about treads in general given how much stuff there is now that murders tanks (especially without recourse to their AV) and a new codex piling on even more highly mobile platforms full of haywire weapons certainly isn't helping, but if you want a non-baal predator, give the autolas a shot imo. You can't punch a tank right in the face with it like you can with the predator annihilator, but being fast, BA preds shouldn't have much of an issue hitting side armour, and the extra shot from the autocannon is good for knocking wounds off MCs and other tough things if you don't have a good vehicle target, and you can do it without wasting the annihilator's expensive turret. Interesting Points all around! Part of me was looking at the points consideration. Laserbacks are quite a bit cheaper than a vindi, plus they can haul a combat squad around with them. I'm wondering if I shouldn't make the vindy magnetized so I can just swap out as needed. I want to get the Baal pred one way or another for fluff reasons, so really all I will be out is a few magnets. You'd be better off magnetizing the baal - the vindicator has the big side armour plates and different frontplate and top hull sections. Any predator variant, however, can be swapped down to a rhino with a simple top hatch and side door/sponson swap, and you can usually get a razorback turret sprue on ebay (or a resin turret from FW if you want a fancy variety). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Battle of keylek legacy of glory on a vindicator. Played an ork army a few weeks ago and he didnt like it when he realised what it did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Battle of keylek legacy of glory on a vindicator. Played an ork army a few weeks ago and he didnt like it when he realised what it did. Very nice if your gaming group allows IA stuff. The beauty of a Vindicator is its flexibility. It can blow chunks out of blob units. It can kill Marines and even Terminators. It can ID up to T5 multiwound models like Spawn, Thunderwolves and Nobz. OK it is not the best option for taking out vehicles or MCs but it will still wound most MCs on a 2+ and can damage most vehicles (you might even get a lucky 6). But we have meltacide squads and grav bikers to deal with those units meaning the Vindicator can threaten almost anything else. It is not the perfect hard-counter to any unit but it packs a lot of punch for the points and as a Fast tank, it has a better threat-range than its codex counterparts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Vindicators can have some unexpected value. I took 2 super-charged vindis to a tourney recently and played against Militarum Tempestus with a full assassin formation. He won the roll off and wanted me to go first so he could set up with everything as far away from the two vindicators as possible. He had several taurox's filled with blobs of guys all set up too far away for me to touch them with my demolisher cannons, but he put the 4 assassins spread out much closer. I guess he figured that I wouldn’t waste a large blast on one lowly model at a time. I figured I could either turbo boost for a few turns and try to get in range of the blobs, or I could shoot a large blast template at one model at a time and hope it didn’t scatter. Over the course of 2 turns (and some lucky non-scattering rolls) I managed to insta-gib each one of his assassins. Did the vindis do much else for the whole game? Not really, but they made their points back, forced my opponent to deploy defensively (soothing the was beneficial for my drop-pod melta squads) and put an end to some nasty Assassin tricks. TL:DR: Vindis are useful against pretty much everything, so even if you cant reach their prime targets, there's not much they cant take a decent punt at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Would you say that they need to be fielded alongside a land raider or some rhino hulls for target saturation? Because I can see 2 alone getting picked on fairly easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I took them with a Storm raven for my third Heavy Slot in the above example, but I usualy take an Autocannon Pred as a third tank. I find that Av13 is pretty sturdy, and when I'm dropping 2 meltacide units and a fragioso on my opponents backline on turn 1, they usually have other things to worry about than shooting at my Vinidis. :) (sorry about my crazy font sizes. for somereason my work computer's browser doesnt like consistancy. :( ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3960731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I wouldn't bother with Razors at all anymore. Just too squishy. Vindies are fairly alright. 130 pts is not unreasonable for what you get. And even though they lost so AT punch, they are still good. Being able to reliably cause pinning hits means you can suppress vehicles even if you don't manage to ouright destroy them. And they are also good at dropping the damn shields on Necron vehicles, to boot. The only thing the vindi is genuinely bad against is Montrous Creatures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 People will tell you Predators suck. Don't believe their lies. You can't go wrong with two Predators, and every single pattern will do fine, although I lean towards Baals (Dakka) and Annihilators (TL-Lascannon) Fas 48" TL S9 AP2 is just amazing (I also love it on my dreadnoughts). I hate Lascannon sponsons; not only do they look fugly but they are a bitch at getting a shooting angle on anything; they are low mounted, they have limited firing arc, and good luck getting two to fire at the same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 As far as tanks go, fast vindicators are up there as some of the best As far as tanks go. The problem is, tanks don't go very far now. Outright bang is hard, but grav guns have made a deleterious impact on them. They used to be better when you could take three baals as well, it was a lot of AV13 armour. Now, its handy to have, might not work for outright kills though but it will disrupt the other guy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If you want to an armoured army, Vindis from the HS section (and a Pred if it works for you) some Terminators in dedicated Land Raiders for Elites and/or Furiosos in pods. That is up to 7 units with AV13+, should be ample to overload your opponent's anti-tank capabilities (except against a few particular opponents) and packs in a fair amount of shooting and CC punch. Obviously you will have to add your Troop tax and HQ in there somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If you want to an armoured army, Vindis from the HS section (and a Pred if it works for you) some Terminators in dedicated Land Raiders for Elites and/or Furiosos in pods. That is up to 7 units with AV13+, should be ample to overload your opponent's anti-tank capabilities (except against a few particular opponents) and packs in a fair amount of shooting and CC punch. Obviously you will have to add your Troop tax and HQ in there somewhere. That's actually good advice, but I'll take it one step further: Get a Land Raider for your Death Company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If you want to an armoured army, Vindis from the HS section (and a Pred if it works for you) some Terminators in dedicated Land Raiders for Elites and/or Furiosos in pods. That is up to 7 units with AV13+, should be ample to overload your opponent's anti-tank capabilities (except against a few particular opponents) and packs in a fair amount of shooting and CC punch. Obviously you will have to add your Troop tax and HQ in there somewhere. That's actually good advice, but I'll take it one step further: Get a Land Raider for your Death Company. Except DC don't have a Land Raider dedicated transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If you want to an armoured army, Vindis from the HS section (and a Pred if it works for you) some Terminators in dedicated Land Raiders for Elites and/or Furiosos in pods. That is up to 7 units with AV13+, should be ample to overload your opponent's anti-tank capabilities (except against a few particular opponents) and packs in a fair amount of shooting and CC punch. Obviously you will have to add your Troop tax and HQ in there somewhere. For HQ, why not Furioso Librarian Dread? Keeps with the FA13 theme. :) For troops, I'd go with 2 x 5 man Tacs in Lasplas razorbacks. I know Razors arnt in favor right now, but with all the other high armour on the field, the opponent will have more important things to worry about. If I had a couple of Landraiders, I'd love to test this list out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 If you want to an armoured army, Vindis from the HS section (and a Pred if it works for you) some Terminators in dedicated Land Raiders for Elites and/or Furiosos in pods. That is up to 7 units with AV13+, should be ample to overload your opponent's anti-tank capabilities (except against a few particular opponents) and packs in a fair amount of shooting and CC punch. Obviously you will have to add your Troop tax and HQ in there somewhere. That's actually good advice, but I'll take it one step further: Get a Land Raider for your Death Company. Except DC don't have a Land Raider dedicated transport. I stand corrected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Just take some Terminators, purchase the Land Raider and start it on the board whilst the Terminators Deep Strike. Have your DC near the Land Raider during Deployment and hop in when the game begins. Alternatively, just take a second BSF/CAD/whatever for additional HS slots :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3962616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 People will tell you Predators suck. Don't believe their lies. You can't go wrong with two Predators, and every single pattern will do fine, although I lean towards Baals (Dakka) and Annihilators (TL-Lascannon) Fas 48" TL S9 AP2 is just amazing (I also love it on my dreadnoughts). I hate Lascannon sponsons; not only do they look fugly but they are a bitch at getting a shooting angle on anything; they are low mounted, they have limited firing arc, and good luck getting two to fire at the same thing. People say Preds are bad because its true. The Baal especially. It just doesn't deliver the amount of dakka that its 135 pts price tag suggests. For troops, I'd go with 2 x 5 man Tacs in Lasplas razorbacks. I know Razors arnt in favor right now, but with all the other high armour on the field, the opponent will have more important things to worry about. The plasmabacks are almost certainly the first thing that your enemy will kill because 1) its low armour 2) it packs a pretty decent punch 3) its transporting troops, which may get pinned/suffer some losses from the Razor's destruction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303863-tanks-in-the-new-40k/#findComment-3963216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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