Best assault UNIT in the Csm book?

[nevaenuffbass]

Hey all

 

Keen to get opinions on the best assault (all purpose) unit in the Csm book. Not best hq, there are plenty of threads on that, but best unit.

 

I have a raider, keen to try it out. Obvious choice is nurgle termis with a mix of close combat weapons. Nurgle for the +1 toughness. Would load 5 with a lord choice - prob typhus. A mace, 2 swords, 2 fists, combi meltas for an answer to knights.

 

Would I do better with possessed? Chosen?

[Xenith]

Are you discounting actual points costs for these units?

 

3 mutilators and Typhus would be fun.

[BetterOffShred]

Yeah I think three multilators and Typhus out of a land-raider is pretty proper,  or MoK Mutilators with Kharne could be pretty cool too, or with an Axe Lord or Abaddon.. either way.  Three mutilators assaulting a Knight with chainfists  I think would do the job.  They are a pretty poor unit really I guess, but 2+ save and the ability to have all of those weapons aren't bad.

 

-Brett

[brother_contagion]

If you're specifically targeting Knights, I'd suggest using MoT Terminators with Chain Fists and Combi-Meltas, that way you're getting a 4++ instead of a 5++. T5 won't matter much against S:D, but then again a 4++ won't either if a 6 is rolled, and even if he doesn't roll a 6, the attacks are at S10 so would double out the Mutilators, I'd say you'd be better off with Tzeentch Terminators for the 4++. MoK could work, but you'd probably need more bodies since they'd be less survivable.

 

Here's my suggestion (or at least what I'd do with the models that I have): have 2 units of Bikers with Meltaguns and Champion with PF and MoT Terminators with Chain Fists and Combi-Meltas hopping out of a Land Raider Melta the Knight (Bikers possibly on side armor if you can get the angle right) and then charge with all three units. That could help out a lot. Also if you have a Sorcerer on a Bike, have him invis the Terminators. That could definitely bring down a Knight.

 

EDIT: also remember that you can only fit 5 Terminators in a Land Raider, so you could only fit 4 Termies and 1 Termie Lord/Sorcerer in there.

[Lucio]

I'd lean towards Chosen as you can get 9 in plus the Lord vs 4 Terminators plus Lord. Yes, they'll die a lot faster but a good assault unit will break the enemy on the turn they charge.

 

Weapon load out favours power lances and you can give a team member either a meltagun or flamer to help the pre-assault shooting. The squad sergeant gets the anti tank option of melta bomb and a lightning claw for flexibility in challenges

[nevaenuffbass]

I do consider points as well. And not just against knights (but that is my reason for combi-melta).

 

Chosen hey... the extra attacks and extra models - that makes sense. However, a chosen with a power lance, costs 2pts more than a terminator with its base power weapon. Granted it is +1A, and a mark is cheaper for them. But do you still think they are better point for point (I hear you that you can put 8 chosen in a raider where you can only put 4 termis). 

 

Leads to a kinda related question - my army is strictly death guard - any ideas for modelling "chosen" death guard models? Use the DV ones, with a white & silver paint job?

[Lucio]

I've got some Nurgle models assembled and primed which I'll post up when I get home. The key for me has been uaing greenstuff to model boils and rents in the armour to help capture the plauge ridden feel and will also change the paint job to suit.

 

Boils are made by taking a small diameter tube, such as a ball point pen inner, or small straw and pressing it into the greenstuff to get a raised lump. An example of this can be seen in my Quintos WIP thread on Lord Zoster, my counts-as Typhus.

[Trevak Dal]

Thing about the chosen, is that you can only give them 5 special things (power weapons, or shooting weapons).  Now if you could give them ALL power fists-well then that'd be different, but as it is, you still only get 5 powerfists (and no chainfists) though you would have the extra krak grenades if that would effect them.

 

Something to consider about mutilators, are that they only get their Chainfists that first turn-if you don't kill the Knight/Big Bastard in one charge, they're going to be flailing at it with Power Axes, Lighting Claws or Power Mauls, where as a Chaos Terminator will have his Chainfist until he goes down.

 

As has been said, Mutilators having multiple wounds is moot-same with the 2+ save.  All that 2+ save does is make it so you can't run stuff down, can deep strike and maybe won't die to some random guy with a lasgun (but if it's against a lot of guys with Lasguns-you are dead).  And it gives you a GEQ invulnerable save.

 

Your Cardboard is magical, but it's still cardboard (5+).  If you could swing it-take a cue from the Imperial Guard and Tyranids and throw as much :cuss at it as possible, combimeltas and Chainfists-mark of Khorne for Rage-and maybe Furious Charge if you want the Angerous Stick.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

Best unit as in most competitive? Spawn. They hit hard with enough attacks to drop terminators at a high enough Strength to hurt most vehicles' rear. Best Unit as in Hits Hardest? Probably some assortment of Khornate Terminators with Abaddon, Khârn, and Zhufor in a spartan

[Prot]

So far I always go back to the Termies. The ultimate flexibility in loadout, and deployment flexibility combined with marks, or no marks..... unit size as low as 3 is always usable in almost any game. 

 

I just always fail in putting them WITH a character. It just never ever seems to work out for me. I love the Termies but have no way of making them better. The closest I've come is with a Termie Sorc with Balestar of Manon.

[brother_contagion]

I have three Terminator Squads, one of 5 with Combi-Meltas and PFs for armor and one of 5 with Combi-Flamers and Power Mauls for infantry, these two have served me well on the table top. My third unit of 5 I made as a retinue for my Termie Lord or Termie Sorcerer, which is Heavy Flamer, 2 Combi-Plasmas, 2 Lightning Claws pairs, 2 PFs and a Power Weapon. I wanted this one to be flexible enough for how I wanted my Lord or Sorcerer to run with in my Land Raider.

[Carrack]

I now have a terminator lord, sorcerer, and a unit of 4 chaos terminators. These units were on sale at my store, and as a novice modeler, I did not want to spend too much on my first models. I'm fine with that decision, I just want these units to have a use in games. The question I have is, does anybody know of a reliable way to get these guys into assault without sinking the points into a land raider or Spartan? I'm hesitant to deepstrike the unit and have them potentially sit out much of the fight in reserve, or worse. Walking in seems worse than deepstriking.

 

As I see it I can drop a terminator and put them in a Dreadclaw, but that eats up valuable FA slot.

I can pick up Huron or Ahriman and infiltrate the unit or outflank them but that means another detachment.

 

Is there a better option that I'm not thinking of? Is there a way to make them deepstrike more reliably? Should I just go ahead and get the unit a land raider or Spartan?

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Personally id risk the deep strike. I do and the worst ive ever had is had them have to come down the following turn

[tdemayo]

I find that Khârn can reliably kill a Knight all by his ding-dong self. Then the knight explodes and kills him with Str D, most of the time. Same deal with chain fist termies and such -- the trick is surviving the knight's explosion after you kill it.

[brother_contagion]

DS isn't as scary as people make it seem. Yes it is a risk, but if you are sure to put them 12" from the board edge and 13" away from an enemy unit (for staying 1" away), then you should be safe. I'm always a risk taker with my DS and it pays off much more than 50% of the time.

[brother_contagion]

The thing with Terminators is that #1 they are an expensive unit and #2 their transports are expensive. This is true for Loyalists and Traitors alike, so expect to have a points sink.

[Dallas Drake]

Possessed... but the Gal Vorbak (30K) ones

EDIT: Berzerkers or Khorne Chosen out of a Dreadclaw? As an ex BA player I learnt with DC that a high volume of decent strength attacks will chop up most units... Though against Knights and LOW you'll need something meaner.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Abbadon makes knights hope they brought sonething to ease the pain

[BetterOffShred]

Abbadon makes knights hope they brought sonething to ease the pain

Abaddon makes most things hope they brought something to ease the pain..  

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img10/8551/nhos.jpg

 

I always loved him in game.  I originally read this to be "what kills knights super well" which I figure for the points, Mutilators still have a great shot.  First round of combat chainfists, second round of combat, (if there is one) powerfists..  and as the above poster pointed out, Khârn can get the job done himself usually.

 

-Brett

[nevaenuffbass]

Thanks guys.

 

I think the risk of the deep strike is worth it also - based on my experience with obliterators (and with 2A and power fists, they aren't slouches in combat either). With terminators you can mitigate the risk by keeping them cheap, and mult-tasking them with combi-weapons (so even on the turn they arrive they still have an important role). 

[Trevak Dal]

Obliterators in combat are sort of like Tau Crisis suits in close combat-you should try and avoid it at all costs, and only ever try to do it on your terms (like if your oblits are looking down at getting charged by something nasty) because you hit after everyone, and those 2 attacks won't do much in the end (though at least its s8 ap2 with the oblits).

 

Again-Mutilators don't have Power fists:  Pg 43 of the hardback Codex Chaos Space Marines:  A pair of Chainfists, lightning claws, power axes, power mauls and power swords are their weapons.

[BetterOffShred]

I still have a Fisti-claw Terminator Lord that opens cans for me when I need..

 

-Brett