Grimm. Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Hello, I would like to try out an assassin in my army. However I have been stumped at the stat line for the Vindicare exitus weapons. What does strength X mean? How does that work in game? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Read the Sniper special rule in the main rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3963398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The strength is dependent on the ammunition used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3966749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The strength is dependent on the ammunition used. Not really. See Lucien's post. Strength x is a thing with specific rules. It does not mean fill in the blank with other rules. It means strength x. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3966788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz431 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 As Fibonacci just said his rifle has no inherent strength. The sniper rifle will always wound on a 4+, unless the hellfire (2+) ammo is used. Last edition, GK codex, his rifle had a strength value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3966804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Have any of you read the Officio Assinorum? The strength is entirely based on which ammo is chosen. Shield Breaker rounds: Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against Wounds, glancing hits or penetrations. Turbo Penetrators: Against vehicles, shots from a TP counts a strength 10. Against other targets TP rounds inflict d3 wounds Hellfire: wound on a 2+ Direct quote. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 None of those define the Strength stat of the weapon, Chef. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Have any of you read the Officio Assinorum? The strength is entirely based on which ammo is chosen. Shield Breaker rounds: Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against Wounds, glancing hits or penetrations. Turbo Penetrators: Against vehicles, shots from a TP counts a strength 10. Against other targets TP rounds inflict d3 wounds Hellfire: wound on a 2+ Direct quote. and where does that say what Strength x means? What is the strength of a Turbo Penetrator fired at a non-vehicle? For that matter, what is the strength of a Shield Breaker round? One ammo type against a specific target type has a Strength value. For everything else, it is Strength x which uses its own rule for wounding. It does not compare Strength against Toughness and as such it will never cause Instant Death. Otherwise it has no stength value at all. That's what Strength x means. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Against other targets TP rounds inflict d3 wounds. You roll to hit. Which is BS4 so vinidcare hits on 3s and then depending on the round used. You determine hits. Doesn't seem to difficult to me. The Exitus rifle has no native strength. The strength comes from the round used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Why do you keep quoting things that have nothing to do with Strength? The only case where an Exitus weapon has a Strength value is when firing a turbo-penetrator at a vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Against other targets TP rounds inflict d3 wounds. You roll to hit. Which is BS4 so vinidcare hits on 3s and then depending on the round used. You determine hits. Doesn't seem to difficult to me. The Exitus rifle has no native strength. The strength comes from the round used. The Vindicare is BS 8, not 4. The weapon always wounds on a 4+ because of sniper, unless you use hellfire rounds or fire at a vehicle. The weapon actually never has a strength, always wounding on fixed numbers or counting as something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz431 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I have never, until this day, seen anyone use circular logic to prove themself wrong. Thank you, chef. The wording of the sniper rule, non-quoted, says that all confirmed hits require a 4+ to wound unless less is needed. Additionally, if a 6 is rolled for the wound, the weapon gains the rending special rule, which can negate possible FNP. Basically what that says, is that a weapon with a sniper rule is "basically" Str4. We all know that "basically" is not the same as "is." Yes, with shield-breaker, if the target had an INVUL, it does not get said save, I like last editions version of this better (takes it away for a whole game (helped me kill a wraithknight)). Yes, the turbo-penetrator (sorry, the immature part of my brain giggled) when fire at a vehicle is STR10, but against bodies is D3 wounds after the first wound connects. Yes, the hellfire wounds on a 2+. Though this still does not indicate a STR. So, what have we learned? Getting indignant when you're wrong, does not make you right. Class dismissed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Other than the wrong ballistic skill how am I wrong? The reason that the weapon is strength X is because of the ammunition used. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Wounds are determined by a weapon's strength vs. target's toughness, yes? If each type of ammo has it's own rules in determining wounds therefore the strength of the weapon is given by the round used. Class dismissed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So what is the Strength of a Helfire round? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3970908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz431 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 What is Strength X, Alex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3971091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If we could keep the condescension down, please, that would be shiny, guys. This is a forum for civilised discussion, not sniping at each other regardless of the unit being discussed. I believe weapons with a Strength score of X are treated as being Strength 3 when firing at vehicles, by the way. Also, who is Alex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3971241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 You have to wait for the full answer before buzzing in with the question. The answer is: He is the Canadian born host of the American TV game show Jeopardy. Also, the Strength of a sniper weapon when fired at a vehicle is given with the rest of the sniper rule. "Against vehicles, shooting attacks from weapons and models with the Sniper special rule count as Strength 4." There are more examples of Strength x weapons in other books than just the Vindicare's weapon. And I know what D:OA says about the strength and different ammo types. One single ammo type gives a different strength against one single target type so while technically the line is true it implies much more than what is there while still not saying anything about what you need to roll to wound with a shield-breaker round. In the end, the answer to the questions "What does strength X mean? How does that work in game?" is covered in the Sniper rule of the basic rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3971320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz431 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think at this point the discussion could be closed, mods. Thank you for the fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3971992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm. Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 Yes probably best. Terribly sorry to have opened this can of worms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304014-vindicare-assassins-weapons/#findComment-3998856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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