Question on Blood Angels Valor's Edge

[Rommel44]

Hey mates. My younger cousin is going BA's, however he has a quick question on the Valor's Edge Sword. Since it's a Relic, I assume you can only take one of them, however he said according to Army Builder, he can actually take two of them and it still says the list is legal. Just posting this so that there is no confusion at all and I assume that you can only take one Valors Edge per army correct.

[BadDice0809]

One per army man, no exceptions. The whole 'one of a kind' thing that relics got...

 

Army Builder and Battle Scribe are nice but nothing replaces the old fashioned codex

[Brit Viper]

Can we take Valours edge and the relic plasma pistol on the same character? The wording is not very clear.in the book.

[Jolemai]

Yes.

[sockwithaticket]

Each relic can only be represented in your army once. A model may carry multiple different relics.

That's my understanding.

[Ancal]

"Only one of each Relic of Baal may be taken per army. A model may replace one weapon with one of the following"

 

Pretty clear cut. One of each relic per army and One relic per character.

[Quixus]

A model may replace one weapon (its chainsword) with valour's Edge, a model may replace one weapon (its bolt pistol) with the Fury of Baal. There is no rule against the model being the same model in both cases. Also the wording on the different characters explicitly allows more than one relic. Exemplary the wording of the chaplain, but all other characters that are allowed to take relics have similar rules.

May take items from the Ranged Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and/or Relics of Baal lists.

If only one relic where allowed, it would have to say "a single item from the relics of Ball list".

[Ancal]

There is a rule and i quoted it. Im sorry but there really is no wiggle room here.

[Karhedron]

"Only one of each Relic of Baal may be taken per army. A model may replace one weapon with one of the following"

 

Pretty clear cut. One of each relic per army and One relic per character.

Not one per character, that line simply explains that each relic replaces a weapon on a 1-for-1 basis. If a model has 2 weapons, he can replace both of them with relics.

 

Simples.

[Ancal]

Dont look for meaning where there is none. One means just that, one... I cant explain this any clearer, it really is that simple.

[Lucumon]

Under captain, page 52, it says, "May take itemS from... and/or Relics of Baal lists."

 

In page 108, it says, "Only one of each of the following artefacts may be chosen per army - there is only one of each of these items in the galaxy!"

 

And, finally, on page 51 the wording, "Only one of each Relic of Baal may be taken per army.  A model may replace one weapon with one of the following:"

 

Funny thing... some models have 2 weapons!  I read this as a one-for-one swap, not a limitation.  So, rules as written... you can take multiple. I cannot explain this any clearer, it is really that simple.

[Quixus]

Dont look for meaning where there is none. One means just that, one... I cant explain this any clearer, it really is that simple.

And how does your weird interpretation fit with the other rules I quoted? Characters can explicitly take items (plural in case you missed the s) from the Relics of Baal list?

 

Also it doesn't say one relic it says one relic for one weapon. The rule simply denotes the exchange rate.

[Ancal]

The "May take items" section everyone seems to get hung up on is merely to intimate that you can take items from all of those lists. It does not override the rule stated on the Blood Angels Wargear list page 51.

It amazes me this is so hard to understand :(

[Jolemai]

Firstly, welcome to Bolter and Chainsword :)

The "May take items" section everyone seems to get hung up on is merely to intimate that you can take items from all of those lists. It does not override the rule stated on the Blood Angels Wargear list page 51.

It amazes me this is so hard to understand

Secondly, how do you interpret the purchasing of those Relics which don't replace a weapon?

[skyst]

This is GW rules writing at its finest, but if they intended for you to take multiple relics per character, they clearly would have written the rule as "replace any weapon with the following..." instead of twice using the limiting factor of one.

 

I'm at work and have no 40k material available to reference, but I would see this rule as similar to one Tactical Marine choosing a weapon from the heavy weapon list. You can't choose multiple "one" marines and have a full squad of heavy flamers (unfortunately).

[Ancal]

Thanks for the welcome :)

 

I would interpret it as the same as replacing one weapon with one relic with the added note clarifying that you dont replace a weapon.

So you still have 1 relic only on the character but you keep the base weapons.

 

With that i will leave this discussion. I will agree to disagree if you still have the same opinion :)

[Jolemai]

This is GW rules writing at its finest, but if they intended for you to take multiple relics per character, they clearly would have written the rule as "replace any weapon with the following..." instead of twice using the limiting factor of one.

 

I'm at work and have no 40k material available to reference, but I would see this rule as similar to one Tactical Marine choosing a weapon from the heavy weapon list. You can't choose multiple "one" marines and have a full squad of heavy flamers (unfortunately).

 

 

 

Heavy Weapons

A model replace its boltgun with one of the following:

 

The reason it says it like this is because everyone who has access to the heavy weapons table has a boltgun. (How many is limited in the unit entry). It is different from the Relic table (which has already been posted) because those who can choose from it have a variety of weapons that they can replace.

[skyst]

I meant that this argument seems analogous to arguing for multiple heavy weapons because of how your heavy weapon quote says "a marine" and not explicitly "a single marine".

 

I don't think any further value could come from this argument of language without clarification from GW.

[Quixus]

Thanks for the welcome

I would interpret it as the same as replacing one weapon with one relic with the added note clarifying that you dont replace a weapon.

So you still have 1 relic only on the character but you keep the base weapons.

No rule says a model may not have more than one relic (as long as they are different relics). What you now claim does not even fit with your weird interpretation. According to you a model is allowed to replace one and only one weapon with a relic. If the relic you choose does not replace a weapon, you have obviously not replaced a weapon with a relic. Now you have two options:

1: because you have not been granted permission to take a relic without replacing a weapon, those relics cannot be taken at all.

2: you can still replace one weapon with a different relic.

So either the non-replacing relics can't be taken or you can have more than one relic but not more than one of the replacing ones.

[Bukimimaru]

I've been feilding a Priest with The Angels Wing, Valour's Edge and The Fury of Baal since the new dex dropped.

No one has ever told me they thought this was an invalid loadout.

One character can take multiple relics, as long as no relic is duplicated.

[Quixus]

While I think this would be a lot of bling on one model, it is definitely legal.

[Charlo]

It is probably the worst written rule in existence, but you, just like every other army (...I think) can take multiple relics on the same character!

[JamesI]

If I recall correctly, while GW has not ruled on this, some of the big tournaments in the US have and allow 1 artifact per character.  My store uses the BAO FAQ and therefore I know I am limited to 1 relic.  So while I would like Ancal to be wrong, some of  the big events have agreed with his interpretation.

[Lucumon]

I've been feilding a Priest with The Angels Wing, Valour's Edge and The Fury of Baal since the new dex dropped.

No one has ever told me they thought this was an invalid loadout.

One character can take multiple relics, as long as no relic is duplicated.

Isn't this an invalid load-out as you have to replace an existing weapon to access a relic weapon?

If I recall correctly, while GW has not ruled on this, some of the big tournaments in the US have and allow 1 artifact per character. My store uses the BAO FAQ and therefore I know I am limited to 1 relic. So while I would like Ancal to be wrong, some of the big events have agreed with his interpretation.

Interesting... I imagine there are similar issues with sergeants being gunslingers then?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I've been feilding a Priest with The Angels Wing, Valour's Edge and The Fury of Baal since the new dex dropped.

No one has ever told me they thought this was an invalid loadout.

One character can take multiple relics, as long as no relic is duplicated.

Isn't this an invalid load-out as you have to replace an existing weapon to access a relic weapon?

If I recall correctly, while GW has not ruled on this, some of the big tournaments in the US have and allow 1 artifact per character. My store uses the BAO FAQ and therefore I know I am limited to 1 relic. So while I would like Ancal to be wrong, some of the big events have agreed with his interpretation.

Interesting... I imagine there are similar issues with sergeants being gunslingers then?

Well the Priest can have 2 weapons, but you have to pay an extra point for it...