Dark Horse Units

[walter h]

They wouldn't dare! Try using them as a scouting unit. Move up the side of the board behind cover. Use special weapons, with shotguns. Their description in the codex shows them as a long-range scout.They should be allowed voxcasters.

[walter h]

Just spitballing. They are actually supposed to be scouts.

[BassWave]

Oh, you want to hear about rough riders? My buddy Synthos117 loves using those damn horses to great effect. Once, an ultramarine player completely ignored them thinking that they'd never accomplish anything. After all, they're just mortals on unarmored horses. Well they charged Sicarius' command squad and left no marine alive. Not even Sicarius.

[FashaTheDog]

I cannot ever bring myself to run Rough Riders.  When I want cavalry, I put on my gas mask and take the unit that Rough Riders should have been; Death Riders.  They look better, perform better, have gas masks (rider and horse), come in platoons, and even get a Commissar option.  Why would you even bother with the inferior Guard version?  I also ask that question about Marines manning Rapiers since it requires two Space Marines to do the job of one Krieger, but that is another story.

 

As for other units, the only other real unused option for me is Veterans.  I mean sure BS4 and extra special weapons is nice, but they are 20 points more than an infantry squad, do not count towards getting another officer, and I much prefer my Guardsmen to number in the hundreds.  Last time I used Veterans was early 5th edition, I think, and only because I had spare points and an extra infantry squad in a platoon.  So yeah I'm one of those few Guard players who never even consider Veterans as part of their list options.  Then again, most of my lists typically begin with a pair of Command Squads, pair of Primaris Psykers, a battery of heavy mortars, a pair of Medusa carriages, and then I fill out the remaining points with platoons and call it a victory.

[WarriorFish]

I think they should do an Ogryn with them. A nice new plastic kit with Rough Riders and a new Dragoon style unit. They'd work well as a mobile shooting unit, so a good excuse to bring something new to the table. Revamped rules to sell the new units on top and GW makes some cash and we get cool new units to use - everyone wins, the best kind of winning! Perhaps one day, plus we've got a lot of kits for our range now so it makes sense to fill the gaps before plumbing the likes of Aquilatron...

 

As for dark horses, Ratlings! The little hobbits are pretty cheap but can alter the course of a battle in a single round of shooting. For throwaway points they're a steal, so much so I might even finally get round to repainting mine one day :P

[Mogsam]

I love ratlings. No idea if they are common but they can kill tanks occasionally with glancing hits!

 

Unless the rules have changed since I last played. Which is quite likely!

[Sinthos117]

Yeah, Rough Riders can be pretty awesome.  This is prefaced with the fact that I run an all infantry assault guard list, but 2 squads running up the flanks just wreck basic marine squads.  They are especially useful against heavy weapons troops.  Also, Sicarius and his command squad were VERY surprised.

 

Another dark horse is the platoon command squad, armed with 4 flamers or grenade launchers.  4 flame templates murder hordes, and multiple GL on a back field objective unit can lay down serious hurt.  They are great at forcing jink saves on low armor vehicles.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that that game isn't Commisariat approved... Just saying...

The commissar decided to give it a go...

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/60101603.jpg

 

I figure that since I'm a battle brother of the Aett through and through this made the most sense...

[WarriorFish]

This is the Guard section Ulrik, keep the SW stuff to the appropriate places please.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Ok. Still, though, The way I see the tempestus it fits. I could start qouting the Ranger standing orders if that's a bit more true to form. 

 

Back to the original topic, I really like armored sentinels with plasma cannons. I may have said it already. At my last meta, they were something you never saw, save for one guy, and he could use them to great effect, When I wasn't breaking them with dreadnoughts. He used them to screen a knight once, and that was pretty cool. 

[WarriorFish]

I always thought they weren't that uncommon, being one of the early ways to get heavy plasmas in. All metas vary though, which is why they should be taken with some salt as only the metas you play in matter to your lists :P

 

That's what makes the game so interesting, what may work for one person might not work for another. There is so much variety to be had - that's why we're here on the B&C so we can share them and be better players (and painters, modellers...).

[CoffeeGrunt]

I love Veterans, they're the unit Scions wish they could be. (Why spend 15pts to give a Scion a Plasma Gun when it costs the exact same amount to swap it for a Lasgun?) Not to mention Guardsman squads being worthless for suicide demolitions roles.

[Sinthos117]

3 man special weapons squad.... armed with demo charges.  So much death.  One lands on target, one scatters 12 inches off, one scatters back on the unit.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I always thought they weren't that uncommon, being one of the early ways to get heavy plasmas in. All metas vary though, which is why they should be taken with some salt as only the metas you play in matter to your lists

That's what makes the game so interesting, what may work for one person might not work for another. There is so much variety to be had - that's why we're here on the B&C so we can share them and be better players (and painters, modellers...).

It's Nashville. It's like a 3 hour trip from GW North America, and there were a ton of Tournament players. They opted for the Armored column most of the time, and just turtled up in the corner and hammered you with battlecannons, and plasma.

[WarriorFish]

That sounds extremely boring :confused:

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Not to mention being hard to beat. One of my buddies once told me that Tournaments are where fun goes to die, and if that's the kind of thing you have to do to win, that's not fun. 

 

I've since learned how to break it, lots of melta, melta squads, meltadreads, heavy weapons squads and demolisher cannons. Did I forget to mention stacking cover saves on tanks. All of it get's parked behind an aegis defense line and all the vehicles have camo netting. Essentially as long as he stays behind that line, he's got a 3++ against anything I do.

 

Coupled with a maser of ordinance, to  drop battle cannons on me every turn, it's not fun.  

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I came here to hear someone talk about Rough Riders... I might be disappointed

From your lips to me ears, dear commissar.

I've used Rough Riders every game I've played with my Imperial Guard since I started rebuilding them about four years ago. When I use Codex: Astra Militarum they are classic rough riders, and when I use the Krieg Assault Brigade they are Death Riders.

My problem is that they were so effective when I first started taking them (and everyone ignored them because they're "rubbish") that everyone gives high target priority to them and they sadly get shot up a lot. However, I have been able to get to grips with the enemy by driving forward with a phalanx of tanks with the riders behind, then when its time to charge the vehicles peel off to create a gap.

They are what they are, a glass hammer, but they have laid some serious hurt (hitting well above their own points cost) on many occasions for me. The very first time I used them was before the advent of AP values for power weapons and a group of ten of them annihilated a deep-striking squad of Chaos terminators. The look on my opponent's face was priceless.

[FashaTheDog]

My issue with Rough Riders is not that they have no use, rather it is that the horses lack gas masks Death Riders are vastly superior.  For 30 points more on the basic unit and 4 points more an additional model, you get +1 bonus to WS, W, A, and save along with FNP (6+), a re-roll to dangerous terrain, immunity to fear, not taking Morale checks from shooting casualties, and may regroup normally when below 25% if within 6" of an officer.  You do lose the option to switch out the hunting lance for a special weapon on two guys and cannot take a power maul on the character, but what they gain far outweighs the price.  Then there is the fact that Death Riders come in platoons with the Command Squadron also getting an extra point to BS, the officer (who can issue orders) able to take a demo charge, and the option for a Commissar (who does lack a lance, but the model is cool enough to forgive that). 

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I agree that the death riders are awesome. Just saying that if you are using Codex: AM the regular rough riders qualify as a dark horse unit.

[Raulmichile]

A meltagun tallarn guardsman who for some unfathomable reason always happens to outlive the rest of his squad. When he finds himself alone he enters a state of pure rage and proceeds to run towards the enemy and demolish the biggest thing he can find with his infallible meltagun. I have to say also that such accuracy only appears once the rest of his squad is mulched.... Such is life, or death in this case,hehe.

 

His death toll while in his trance is impressive. My mates know very well that they have to ensure his demiss when targeting his squad (something that does not happen as often as probabilities suggest), because if he manages to survive pirotechnic shows will follow...

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I love ratlings. No idea if they are common but they can kill tanks occasionally with glancing hits!

 

Unless the rules have changed since I last played. Which is quite likely!

 

Yeah, my Ratlings have hit above their weight, too. For some reason, when I infiltrate them, my opponents always seem to be scared of them back there and will dedicate quite a bit of firepower to killing them. Deployed in terrain and going to ground, those Ratlings can soak up a LOT of shots that otherwise would be directed at my main force. This has been their main benefit, I have personally not had great success with them sniping anything although outflanking Ratlings using their pistols did manage to kill a few Warlocks who I'd been unable to take down with half my army shooting at them beforehand.

[irwit]

Would rough riders painted black count?

 

;)

[Bonzi]

Score another point for the Armored Sentinel as a dark horse unit.  Golden Gloves just bagged his second Storm Raven...rolled a six to hit, pen, and on the damage table.  My opponents always seem to ignore my individual Armored Sentinels alone because they miss so often....but man when they hit, they hit hard.  

[WarriorFish]

Many underestimate the individual Guard unit, it is not a mistake they will get the chance to repeat ;)