SoH Reaver Attack Squad

[Beerhammer]

Good morning,

 

Would a SoH Reaver Attack Squad with jump packs be worth taking or does it just become a points sink with all the additional upgrades? I bring this up because an Legion Assault Squad costs 250 for 10 models while A RAS with 5 additional Reavers and Jump Packs cost 260. The Reavers bring so much to the table with an additional attack and assassins eye special rule, then with the right RoW (The Black Reaving) they become troops. 

 

How do SoHs play them or do they even bring them?  Thank you for your input!

 

Beerhammer OUT!!

 

 

[Marshal Loss]

Reavers with Jump Packs are definitely viable. The trick is not loading them up with too many upgrades. They're a great unit though, really fluffy and fun to use!

 

Firstly, if you take them with jump packs, make it a 15 man squad. You pay a set point value for the jump packs regardless of numbers, so the more marines, the cheaper the jump packs cost per model. I have 30 Reavers with jump packs, and I've found that the trick is to keep them relatively cheap.

 

Secondly, remember this: the strength of Reavers is in the vast volume of attacks they put out. You want them to be the ones charging and you want them to outnumber your opponent (and counting as bulky certainly helps with this). If you take power weapons, don't take too many unwieldy ones (axes, fists) as they do not count for your 'merciless fighters' extra attack.

 

There are other ways to run them - Dreadclaw or Rhino, often as a shooty squad that also has a huge punch in assault; they're an extremely versatile unit. To get the most out of them though, you always want to be assaulting. Just keep in mind that at the end of the day, no matter how many attacks they have, they only have a 3+ save and 1 wound, like any normal space marine. In bigger games, you have to be very careful with them.

 

Forgot to mention: outflank. It's really useful, use it in games where it's appropriate as I've had a huge pack of Reavers run on from the side of the board and go absolutely ballistic through my opponents army

[Beerhammer]

What about having them armed with boltguns and riding in rhinos? Will they be able to be as effective armed that way or is it best to just keep them armed for CC?

 

What do you run with them?

 

Thanks for the reply. 

[Marshal Loss]

What about having them armed with boltguns and riding in rhinos? Will they be able to be as effective armed that way or is it best to just keep them armed for CC?

What do you run with them?

Thanks for the reply.

No problem

They can work well with boltguns in a rhino, where they're kind of like pseudo veterans. Load them up to the teeth with guns, outflank and use assassin's eye to take out valuable members of enemy squads. I kind of feel like they're just slightly more expensive veterans at this point though, and while banestrike ammo is nice they aren't going to be able to wipe huge tactical blobs through ranged fire. So, situational. I have a veteran squad who can pass as reavers, festooned in spikes & eyes as they are, and I alternate between them depending on the game. They have their place though, so maybe if you have veterans just try running them as reavers with banestrike ammo for a while and see what you think.

Volkite chargers are definitely an option too. Short range once again, but synergise well with their assault tendencies. I have personally never tried this. Pricey though.

With jump packs, I run them as a 15 man squad, and my special weapons/power weapons are all magnetised (I'm OCD like that). In bigger games, I give them 3x meltaguns, a handful of power fists (2-3) and some power weapons (swords) and just outflank them. In smaller games, I run them bare bones with only a single power weapon on the Chieftain, and maybe one power fist.

If you play against 40k armies regularly, give them chainaxes! You'll bring ork players to tears.

[Beerhammer]

I am liking this more and more ..... 

[Marshal Loss]

They're really good! You can run them any way you like, really. Big squad in a land raider, squad in a rhino kitted up for shooting, squad in a dreadclaw kitted up for shooting or cc, big jump pack squad out flanking, or any combination of the above. They excel at picking important targets out of squads and then overwhelming them in close combat. An ordinary Reaver has 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, 5 if you get a merciless fighters attack - and if you run Black Reaving, they can potentially in perfect conditions get 6 attacks each with rage.

I use my Reavers against Solar Auxilia wherever possible (as if they make it into close combat, they just wipe whole squads left and right) and when playing against other Astartes players, make sure that my Reavers aren't the biggest target on the board. If you have a Spartan running at them with a giant squad inside, or a Storm Eagle with a squad that could assault soon (etc, etc) your Reavers are much less likely to get shot off the board. Outflank obviously helps with this hugely, and against gunline armies can be a real boon if the dice gods are on your side.

TLDR, great unit. Kick some ass for the Warmaster

One last thing: I mentioned that they compete against veterans. In what way are they better than veterans in cc? Jump packs give them more maneuverability, and they can have larger squads, which lets them take advantage of merciless fighters far easier.

[Beerhammer]

Thank you for the detailed explanation of them and how to use them!!!

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'm not sold on precision strike. Something that only triggers every 1/6 simply for me means that it's a nice little aside when it happens rather than making it a reason for the unit to be taken. Plus, Sniper Vets have the same options.

 

The differences;

 

Reavers; 

+10pts base

+Bolters+Combi Bolters with Banestrikes, Volkite Charges available for all members of the squad

+Plasma Pistol option

+Chainaxes and Power Fists available for all

+Cheap Jump Packs compared to Assault Squads and Command Squads

+1 A on the Chieftain

+Precision Shots and Strikes

+Outflank

+Can get to 15 Members

 

Veterans

- Come with Bolters normally which aren't limited by Banestrikes reduced range

- Sniper rule which they can get for free is better than Banestrikes

- Can take Volkite Serpentas

- Can get Furious Charge if they are going pure assault

- Alternatively, can get Outflank if they really need it

- Can get meltabombs and tank hunters for entire squad

- Can get a pair of Assault Missile Launchers or Heavy Bolters. Can make the former Tank Hunter and Flakk if necessary as well

- Scoring without the need of a Rite of War/Character to make them Troops

 

If I'm honest, the benefits of Reavers comes down to the fact that they're made accessible without a Rite of War as heavily penalizing as Pride of the Legion thanks to Maloghurst (who is already amazing for his points value). However, with the advent of the Delegatus and especially his Chosen Duty Rite of War, the Veterans edge out as preferential tools for most lists that aren't focused around Mal.

 

This makes Reavers with Jump Packs the only real thing that the Veterans can't do similarly well. I don't think precision shots is all that, if I'm honest, especially when it make trigger maybe only on 1-2 wounding hits per phase. Put Plasma's with the squad, and you get... a lesser Special Weapons squad - 10 Reavers with 2 Plasma = 240pts. 10 Veterans = 230, and come with Sniper so get Precision Shots, Bolters AND AP2 potential from the sniper rule, while 235 buys you 7 Plasma Guns in a support squad.

 

However, Jump Packs?

 

Not only do you effectively double in size their squad number for the number of Merciless Fighters, but they get a few Hammer of Wrath hits in which in my experience kills perhaps another 3 MEQ's if you can get all of the Reavers in CC, which has an extra effect (it's unlikely that you'll be facing more than 30 models in one CC when you can choose the assault, meaning that unless they're I5 and totalled out with Power Weapons (Night Lords Terminators or something equally stupid you've decided to charge) you'll have a decent chance of gibbing an enemy, especially if you can combine it with a charge from an existing unit; Outriders are good for this, I find.

[Marshal Loss]

I'm not sold on precision strike. Something that only triggers every 1/6 simply for me means that it's a nice little aside when it happens rather than making it a reason for the unit to be taken. Plus, Sniper Vets have the same options.

 

 

In cc, precision strike is actually incredibly powerful with how many attacks the Reavers are able to bring to the table.I think it really cements the fact that they are meant to be played as a unit whose preference should be for close combat.

 

Reavers & Veterans only compete for the same job if you're building them exactly the same way, which is not how Reavers are meant to be played. But yeah, I feel that their biggest leg up over veteran is the ability to get to 15 man, precision strikes in cc and jump packs. They're still viable as a shooting unit, though, but are not the best at it.

[PastelAvenger]

Wrong forum.

[Kriegriss]

I have a question to the more experienced and rules wise players here as far as I know reavers come with close combat weapon and bolt pistol and the the chain axe is an upgrade what is the advantage to a chain axe in 30k is it considered unwieldy like a power axe or not (currently with ought books) also what does it do now against 3+ armour save legion list I never played zerkers so am unfamiliar with its rules does it lower a 3+ to a 4+ or is it just ap4 .

 

I mean they look stellar on the models and I would equip them for rule of cool alone but I am unsure as to the actual benifit also is there away to get heresy Era jump packs without haveing to buy assault squads

[Reyner]

They are just AP4 with no other effects :) 

[Kriegriss]

so why pay for them rules wise then it's honestly 3pts or something for a cooler looking chain sword for the most part in the 3+ world of 30k that's to bad . I guess if you use them vs solar auxilia but that's to bad

[PastelAvenger]

It's 1pt per model, I'm pretty sure most lists can afford to pay between 5 and 10 points to upgrade the unit.

 

Remember that some people play 30k vs 40k which means those chain axes get a lot more useful.

[Kriegriss]

yeah for sure not coming down on them they look so good its hard not to do it another question

 

So you can take power axes which are unwieldy so strike at initiative 1 but when you charge they still strike first unless the target unit/victims has counter charge so that means that there special rules or legion rules im not sure (again no books I'm at work) alow you to have an extra attack per model that landed a hit in the first initiative stage of the combat so on the charge u can gain that extra ap2 attack correct. OR does the weapon have to normally strike in the first initiative step of combat

 

I was just thinking that you can get allot of attacks out of reavers and depending on how that rule works you could stack up a lot of AP2 attacks against terminators with there out number rule and rage from ROW and base 2 attacks plus the pistol and CC weapon that's a lot of dice and if you can stuff some extra AP2 into the first initiative stage that seams awesome to me

 

or is it more viable to take power swords and hunt AP3 stuff and I have not even looked at cost effectiveness vs veterans just musing here that's all

[GreyCrow]

yeah for sure not coming down on them they look so good its hard not to do it another question

 

So you can take power axes which are unwieldy so strike at initiative 1 but when you charge they still strike first unless the target unit/victims has counter charge so that means that there special rules or legion rules im not sure (again no books I'm at work) alow you to have an extra attack per model that landed a hit in the first initiative stage of the combat so on the charge u can gain that extra ap2 attack correct. OR does the weapon have to normally strike in the first initiative step of combat

 

I was just thinking that you can get allot of attacks out of reavers and depending on how that rule works you could stack up a lot of AP2 attacks against terminators with there out number rule and rage from ROW and base 2 attacks plus the pistol and CC weapon that's a lot of dice and if you can stuff some extra AP2 into the first initiative stage that seams awesome to me

 

or is it more viable to take power swords and hunt AP3 stuff and I have not even looked at cost effectiveness vs veterans just musing here that's all

 

I don't understand your point about Power Axes striking first ? They're unwieldy, so they'll always strike and Initiative 1 and because of that you won't get Merciless Fighters (because the FAQ for that rule specifically says that you don't get extra attacks if you already striked at Initiative 1 :)

[Marshal Loss]

or is it more viable to take power swords and hunt AP3 stuff and I have not even looked at cost effectiveness vs veterans just musing here that's all

 

The greatest strength of reavers is the sheer weight of attacks they can put out, their insane versatility is just a huge bonus. They can often deal with TEQ squads with their huge numbers of attacks but I wouldn't kit them out with lots of unwieldy weapons (maybe a handful of fists at most in a maxed squad). If you're going to put power weapons into a Reaver squad, I think swords are the way to go.

 

They get expensive quickly, sure their points can be earned back but at the end of the day they are just another T4 3+ unit that dies pretty easily. A maxed squad with jump packs & lots of power weapons/fists is going to clear 500 points easily which is a colossal investment.

[Theredknight]

I'm really thinking of taking a unit of 15 cc reavers to back up my ec.

I love the models and gives me another chance to paint something other than purple!

Although ec are weak, I think putting eidolon In with them outflanking mayve will be much more point efficient than putting him in with 15 assault marines and just 3 pwr swords.

Plus battle brothers gives them +1" to their charge range

[PastelAvenger]

Kriegriss you need to give the rules another read before you play another game buddy