jkhan43 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Hey guys, Recently I've had the displeasure of facing off against a succubus with web way portal (no scatter upon deep striking) paired with wraith guard carrying d-scythes (so S 4 ap 2 templates), which either deep strike to wreck a unit of GK terminators, or a unit of white scar bikers (who can't jink against their templates). Any ideas on ways to deal with this? Would it make sense to use regular deep strike and hope they are forced to land before my terminators due to chance? Or should I just take the hit and assault the unit the following turn with whatever is left of my GK units? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionicman Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Not a good idea. Wraith bombs want to roll 6's anyways. Why do you ask? Well I'll tell you. Dreadknight cannot stand against Instant Death.. So a good eldar player will want to template a Dreadknight, due to those are guaranteed dice that allow for a chance to instant kill that monstrous creature without eternal. So bad idea. My idea, stay back, hit with grav on bikes. The ap2 negates armour and hit and wounds with 66% chance. Play mobile. D scythes are only template ranged. Wraith cannons are only 12". Keep moving. Or include 300 points for Kamarzov & Coteaz. The moment something enters play within 12" of that Death Star, kamarazov gets to fire off a orbital bombardment. And because he is with Coteaz, he can keep doing it. Good night. Totally forgot ID - I stand corrected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3970727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz431 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Not a good idea. Wraith bombs want to roll 6's anyways. Why do you ask? Well I'll tell you. Dreadknight cannot stand against Instant Death.. So a good eldar player will want to template a Dreadknight, due to those are guaranteed dice that allow for a chance to instant kill that monstrous creature without eternal. So bad idea. My idea, stay back, hit with grav on bikes. The ap2 negates armour and hit and wounds with 66% chance. Play mobile. D scythes are only template ranged. Wraith cannons are only 12". Keep moving. Or include 300 points for Kamarzov & Coteaz. The moment something enters play within 12" of that Death Star, kamarazov gets to fire off a orbital bombardment. And because he is with Coteaz, he can keep doing it. Good night. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3970741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhan43 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 That's a decent idea, but it seems like quite a large point investment to counter (his orbital may scatter off altogether), although the wraith guard unit is similarly priced points wise. Once you reach combat with GK's it only requires a hammerhand to remove them, but they get their deep strike hits, plus the overwatch following before assault. Tricky stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3970854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 How is he delivering the Succubus to your lines that fast? I would think you'd be able to gun her down before she can get that portal in range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3971310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhan43 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Nowadays the web way portal grants deep strike which doesn't scatter to the unit which possesses it, so they can land perfectly in flamer range and land so they can achieve the most hits. It's no longer an actual portal for other units to utilize like the last book. So as soon as he rolls his reserve they can land wherever and in perfect position. In most cases I've landed in first with the NSF, and then a turn later this unit arrives and melts a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3971403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Nowadays the web way portal grants deep strike which doesn't scatter to the unit So.. How does a unit of Flamer templates get enough templates to hit? They should be in a perfect lil circle and get at most, 3 templates in the same direction. And although ap2 is crazy good, only around half will even wound Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3971604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhan43 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Oh interesting, so templates aren't allowed to fire through their own unit as if they weren't there? That definitely reduces their damage output by a lot. Edit: so just checked, that's definitely the case for template weapons. That really makes the unit a lot easier to deal with, and for their cost (~300 points) they're not nearly as bad as I first thought. Thanks for pointing that out! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3971622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Overwatch is bad though, grey knights demolish them in combat with hammerhand, but each wraithguard will get D3 overwatch hits each. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3971713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Just three old School Flamers were enough to delete a unit of Marines back in the day after a DS off an Icon. It doesn't surprise me on bit that three Wraithguard with D Sycthes can do the same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3971827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Nowadays the web way portal grants deep strike which doesn't scatter to the unit which possesses it, so they can land perfectly in flamer range and land so they can achieve the most hits. It's no longer an actual portal for other units to utilize like the last book. So as soon as he rolls his reserve they can land wherever and in perfect position. In most cases I've landed in first with the NSF, and then a turn later this unit arrives and melts a unit. Oh I see. Well in that case, I'd Ally Coteaz with some plasma cannon servitors. In your turn, turn on 'Prescience', then use Coteaz IBEY ability to make them land outside of flamer range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3971897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhan43 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 The coteaz ability is definitely a good deterrent to keep units safe, and at least servitors are quite cheap with plasma cannons. Also I think that before considering charging them, it'd probably be best to reposition dread knights and terminators to get as many psycannon hits on the squad as possible (rending ignoring their 3+ t6 save occasionally), and if you have a librarian with divination who rolled misfortune you could cast that as well, allowing storm bolters to help out with rending as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3972178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amornar Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Not a terrific idea..but against such a difficult unit remember that overwatch resolves once...so you could always sacrifice a unit (or single model) that has a guy or two left to absorb all the overwatch flamers then secondary assault with a combat ready unit buffed up to take them down, just plan for the tanking shadowfield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3972268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yeah multi-assault would be the way to go. Probably sacrifice some Terminators, then charge a DK in. Either way, he loses his Deathstar (remember to turn on 'Hammerhand' before you charge of course), and you'll only lose one of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3972803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin the wraithlord Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Tbh i cant really see a way of defeating it without taking losses bar allying in what has been said above and thats not 100% solid, basically there going to kill what they target unless you maybe get sanctuary off and get beyond lucky with your inv rolls, in terms of killing the unit, shoot it, do not charge it, you'll already have lost a squad of terms to there fire when they came in theres no sense in losing more to a unit that as a "deathstar" probley costs less than your terminator squads, despite there high T value they will crumple under heavy fire plus there really slow once they've dropped in if your spaced out enough you can just pretty ignore them and just pick them off at your leisure while you deal with the rest of his army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3974289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Tbh i cant really see a way of defeating it without taking losses bar allying in what has been said above and thats not 100% solid, basically there going to kill what they target unless you maybe get sanctuary off and get beyond lucky with your inv rolls, in terms of killing the unit, shoot it, do not charge it, you'll already have lost a squad of terms to there fire when they came in theres no sense in losing more to a unit that as a "deathstar" probley costs less than your terminator squads, despite there high T value they will crumple under heavy fire plus there really slow once they've dropped in if your spaced out enough you can just pretty ignore them and just pick them off at your leisure while you deal with the rest of his army Victory demands sacrifice. Prevent the alpha-strike he desires by taking Coteaz (by definition he can't land in flamer range or he gets shot), then multi-assault. You won't kill it any other way, and it's a big chunk of his army dead. Especially if he was relying on it to take out your Terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3974760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz431 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Also, be creative with your deployment. How do you ask? Aegis line. Yes, I have asked you to take a total of 400 points. And after this works your opponent will likely never take that unit again. Put a tactical squad up front spread out within coherency behind an aegis line. The moment he drops in, intercept with the aegis, hopefully breaking the raider. Then fire of the Coteaz bomb, making sure he is directly behind that unit, not joined to it until after this shooting (seperate targets). Your opponent must remain 1" from any model. Make sure your dread is ready to teleport into firing range afterwards. If the raider is only wrecked out by the aegis, he will put the bodies behind for cover. If it pops, better for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3975941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezartfox Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Oh interesting, so templates aren't allowed to fire through their own unit as if they weren't there? That definitely reduces their damage output by a lot. Edit: so just checked, that's definitely the case for template weapons. That really makes the unit a lot easier to deal with, and for their cost (~300 points) they're not nearly as bad as I first thought. Thanks for pointing that out! Ally with iyanded rather than eldar, and their seers can give battle focus to the wraith units, meaning they can run and shoot, scary! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3979541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Ally with iyanded rather than eldar, and their seers can give battle focus to the wraith units, meaning they can run and shoot, scary! Yeah that is annoying. However, they'll have to land within 12" to do that anyway, unless they roll really high on Run. So, Coteaz still stops that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304357-how-to-deal-with-wraithguard-bomb/#findComment-3979905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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