Load-outs for Leman Russ Variants

[SaradominWrecksYou]

I have recently started playing my IG again after an extended break. When I was catching up with all the rules, I noticed that a vehicle must snap shot if it fired any ordnance weapons that turn. I looked in the rule book to find a way around that rule, and I found the vehicle must have the relentless rule to fire all weapons at full BS. Surprise, Leman Russ tanks do not have that rule; and I now think that some variants now suck. However, I want more feedback than just my own.

 

So, I have some questions about your thoughts on Leman Russ variants.

 

-Is the battle cannon variant even worth it anymore? - I can get a Basilisk for cheaper with a better main gun and not waste my other shooting.

 

-I think the demolisher is better than the battle cannon, but what do you guys think?

 

-Do you even take side sponsons on your ordnance tanks anymore?

 

-What weapon combinations do you take on your tanks now?

 

 

Any responses are greatly appreciated.

[steellegionnaire85]

I actually don't use my battle cannons russes much I use Punishers, Vanquishers, and Exterminators more now. I rely on Wyverns to take the role of the battle cannons. My Vanquishers have lascannons and multi meltas. I use heavy bolsters all around on my Punishers and Exterminators. I have even taken down flyers with Pask in all three types

[Chefzilla]

I still use my BT's. I just fire my lascannon first then I fire the ordinance weapon. No sponsons on her though. Demolisher is such short range but a fantastic gun. Basilisk still have a 24" minimum range so in most games. I only get 1 maybe 2 rounds with it and then I can rely on my BT. I do use is it in conjunction with other Leman Russ variants though.

[SaradominWrecksYou]

I still use my BT's. I just fire my lascannon first then I fire the ordinance weapon. No sponsons on her though. Demolisher is such short range but a fantastic gun. Basilisk still have a 24" minimum range so in most games. I only get 1 maybe 2 rounds with it and then I can rely on my BT. I do use is it in conjunction with other Leman Russ variants though.

Did GW FAQ that rule? If they didn't, I think it is kinda gamey to shoot other weapons first as much as I wish that was the case.

[Idlem]

They did not. Firing the las cannon first prevents the ordnance weapon from firing at all. The only thing you can do without power of the machine spirit is fire off the cannon and then snap fire the rest. If you set a tech priest by the BT and give them PoMS, then you may fire one weapon at full BS even after shooting the ordnance weapon.

 

Basilisk can still direct fire under its minimum range, just not indirect fire. I'd still take my battle tank over it. AV14 front is invaluable. 

[Chefzilla]

They did not. Firing the las cannon first prevents the ordnance weapon from firing at all. The only thing you can do without power of the machine spirit is fire off the cannon and then snap fire the rest. If you set a tech priest by the BT and give them PoMS, then you may fire one weapon at full BS even after shooting the ordnance weapon.

 

Basilisk can still direct fire under its minimum range, just not indirect fire. I'd still take my battle tank over it. AV14 front is invaluable. 

Forgive me ignorance but how does firing the lascannon first prevent the main gun from shooting at all? Leman Russ BT is pretty damned good squishie killer not bad against armor. If I'm tackling apcs or other tanks then I'm bringing my Vanquisher or Executioner. Those I usually have lascannons with melta sponsons.

[Cap'm Heckus]

I'm partial to eradicators with HB sponsons. They're great for clearing scrubs and sniper scouts. I also run a vanquished with lascannon since it isn't ordanance. On the occasions that I make the Vanquisher my commander I like to throw melta sponsons on it.

 

As far as the standard Russ goes, I usually run it naked. Same with the demolisher.

[Idlem]

 

They did not. Firing the las cannon first prevents the ordnance weapon from firing at all. The only thing you can do without power of the machine spirit is fire off the cannon and then snap fire the rest. If you set a tech priest by the BT and give them PoMS, then you may fire one weapon at full BS even after shooting the ordnance weapon.

 

Basilisk can still direct fire under its minimum range, just not indirect fire. I'd still take my battle tank over it. AV14 front is invaluable. 

Forgive me ignorance but how does firing the lascannon first prevent the main gun from shooting at all? Leman Russ BT is pretty damned good squishie killer not bad against armor. If I'm tackling apcs or other tanks then I'm bringing my Vanquisher or Executioner. Those I usually have lascannons with melta sponsons.

 

 

Under "Vehicles and Ordnance" it states that vehicles firing an Ordnance weapon can only fire the rest of its shots as snap fire. Since shooting the las cannon, or the sponsons at full BS doesn't have anything that can override that rule, if it shoots first that excludes the battlecannon from firing.

 

Edited for spelling and wording. 

[march10k]

I like: 

 

Standard russes with lascannon hull mounts and no sponsons as wing tanks for Pasquisher

 

Pasquisher with no sponsons and hull lascannon

 

Demolishers with no sponsons

 

Eradicators with no sponsons

 

...and Punishers with three heavy bolters.

[Fibonacci]

 

-Is the battle cannon variant even worth it anymore? - I can get a Basilisk for cheaper with a better main gun and not waste my other shooting.

 

-I think the demolisher is better than the battle cannon, but what do you guys think?

 

-Do you even take side sponsons on your ordnance tanks anymore?

 

-What weapon combinations do you take on your tanks now?

1 - They are comparable.  For 25 points you get a much more damage resistant tank that causes ID against the same models.

2 - Strength 10 is great but 24" range and a higher point cost -- the highest of any variant -- hurts.

3 - No.

4 - Pask with Punisher, melta sponsons and lascannon. 

Exterminator (autocannon) with plasma sponsons if Pask's wingman.

Eradacators (nova cannon) with heavy bolters is a nice change of pace but a pair of Wyverns can do the same job better and cheaper.

Everything else runs stock.

[WarriorFish]

To put the final nail in the coffin (and prevent any derailments) - the short version is: firing an ordnance weapon means all other weapons must snap fire, the only exception is Superheavy vehicles.

 

As such, I prefer sponsonless ordnance Russes but generally tend not to take them as a Russ's main weapon is potent enough. I treat them as a bonus upgrade if I have points about, you can't go wrong with some HBs as a default, or a cheap hull lascannon. Decide if your sponsons should match the main gun's role or complement it and then do the same for all Russes in your army i.e. generalise or specialise everything.

 

The Demolisher is better in it's role yes but you can't beat the battle cannon for a generalist. Each Russ has a role to play, it's just a matter of how you want to do this. Arguably there's no such thing as a bad Russ as you can justify builds quite easily - the context is the overall list.

[SaradominWrecksYou]

Wow guys, thanks for all the responses and suggestions. It seems everyone generally shares the idea that sponsons aren't really worth it on variants with ordnance for the main gun.

 

However, I still think the question of whether the basilisk is better than the standard leman russ is up for debate.

 

Pros for Standard Russ-

- better armor                                                                                         

- more mobile

 

Pros for Basilisk-

- higher str

- indirect fire

 

More specific factors that can contribute-

 

-Russ

+ Better for a list with low amount of vehicles

+ This is like the only tank where taking a heavy stubber may actually add a little something

+ Better for maps with low amounts of LOS blocking terrain

+ Can provide direct cover for advancing infantry

 

-Basilisk

+ Better with cover heavy maps

+ Survives longer when your list has lots of armor saturation

 

 

While the standard russ can do more than a basilisk, it does the tasks that more specialized tanks should already be doing. Therefore, I think that basilisk is actually better overall. It is a better support unit because of its higher str gun; indirect fire capability; and unless you love fighting on the plains of Kansas, there should be plenty of cover for your arty to hide behind; and you shouldn't miss a tank off the front line if you are using the specialized russ variants in your formation already.

 

What are everyone else's thoughts?

 

Edit- Fixed grammar 

[shandwen]

The main reason why basalisks are rarely used is that the wyvern does most of the basalisks job at a much cheaper point cost, and more reliably.  The basalisk still has a stronger shot, but it can't compare to the mass amount of saves that the mortar-machinegun puts out.

[SaradominWrecksYou]

Oh, I dont even know what that unit does. I truthfully haven't read its entry in the new dex. I had no interest in the new units. Dang, I guess my comparison is a moot point. 

[march10k]

Of course there's a bad russ...non-Pask vanquishers are horrid at BS3 heavy 1, exterminators just don't do anything that you can't get your infantry to do, and who wants to take 3-5 "gets hot" chances per turn?  The executioner is really good when rerolling those ones (*cough*pask*cough*) and scary self-destructive otherwise.  

[Chefzilla]

Why would you compare tanks with artillery? That's apples and oranges. I still use my Basilisk along side my Wyvrens especially given that the Basilisk has a greater range and the players I go up against like their Defilers.

[WarriorFish]

Chef is right, there's no direct comparison between them as it's like comparing apples and oranges. The Russ is more easily used, being heavy armour with a comparable gun but the option of additional guns. This comes at a price though as you'd expect. The Bassie is a solid artillery piece though as whatever it hits will be hurting in some way - there's a reason it's the classic Guard piece!

 

It needs support more than a Russ though as it is vulnerable. It's a question of which fits your force more than anything - a reoccurring theme as you'll soon be aware! This is generally how the game works in most cases with units, but perhaps more so in the Guard codex which has so many options :)

 

In a purely tactical sense I saw the Russ wins out as it is easier to fit into a list and more flexible. For artillery to work more it needs to be factored in somehow. Generally you can't go wrong in a list but slapping a Russ in :P