Prot's Orky Demise: A Crimson Slaughter 750 quick-rep

[Prot]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for all the feedback. Things went absolutely horrid, but sincerely, I appreciated the thoughts on what to bring out for a 750 campaign start.

 

I had several armies on standby but I had deluded myself into thinking I could compete with my Crimson Slaughter / Chaos.

 

I faced a simple man, playing a simple army, who simply stomped me.

 

Orks were basically:

 

A warboss: Strength 10 fist, T6 biker in...

a Bike squad but no feel no pain this time. (wow, what a relief. A really annoying squad.)

 

2 large boy squads, one shooty, one assaulty.

 

1 Battle wagon, loaded with Tank Bustas. (and busta they did.)

 

My list:

LvL 3 Super Sorc! Balestar of Manon in...

 

15 man Cultist squad x 2

 

4 Bikers, two meltaguns

 

Helbrute formation: 3 Dreads, 1 x MM bolter, 1 x MM Hvy Flamer, 1x Plasma Canon / Hammer.

 

 

The game:

Eternal War (wow haven't played one of these in a long time... can't say I miss them that much aside from the speed it takes to play them): The Scouring.

 

My list looked like....

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prot%20Crimson%20Slaughter/Prot%20750%20Crimson%20Slaughter%20Helbrute%20sucky%20formation.jpg

 

+++ One big happy family til the Ork Dung starts getting flung.... I spent the better part of a week magnetizing the newer grey Helbrute. His left and right arms are set up to be hot swappable between plasma, las, autocannon. His left arm with a Missile Launcher.

 

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prot%20Crimson%20Slaughter/Prot%20750%20Crimson%20Slaughter%20Ork%20Deploy.jpg

 

+++ His deployment. It just feels like a lot of decent stuff at 750.

 

Early Game:

 

He won first turn. My choice of psychic powers seemed good.... I could not sieze, he went first, zoomed forward.

 

I felt since I had the '4 point' marker in my zone, it was best to be conservative and let him be the agressor until my Helbrutes could arrive.  He  zooms up bikes, and takes a lot of pot shots on my left flank.

 

I make a minor mistake, I go to ground. So it would be a waste for me to use psychic powers on that squad for twin linking ,shooting normal for Overwatch, etc.

 

It would turn out I would fail 3 saves even going to ground on a 3+ cover, however I would then fail all psychic tests, including re-rolls.

 

Turn 2:

 

Helbrutes arrive! Nice.... Like all things Chaos it is a mixed blessing.

 

The Sorcerer fails all but one psychic test. The Ork player rolls box cars to cancel it... ugh.

 

One Helbrute tries for a Multimelta shot in the side of the Battlewagon. (Front is AV14). I figure I need to get this thing down very early or suffer more turns of a ton of missile shots. That particular Helbrute would scatter just a hair too far.

 

I did not have a proper base on that helbrute and it was my call after the deviation. I declared it illegal... I felt it was within an inch of one of his boyz.... We rolled on the Misshap, he got to place it way deep in my corner.

 

I roll on the Crazed table... not bad... double shots this turn. The Helbrute with the heavy flamer/MM got to double flame the biker squad... he didn't like that. I actually killed 3 bikers.... this was the anti-weapon to his T5 / jink / 4+ unit as he would get none of it...

 

The Third Helbrute, stayed put right in front of my bikes which already took a casualty from missiles. He double plasma cannoned the Bikes, one died (poor deviation rolls).

 

Turn 3:

 

The Ork bikers turn into my red helbrute with flamer, I kill one in overwatch but am quickly decimated by fists....

 

Second Helbrute with plasma loses 2 hullpoints to missile shots.

 

Third helbrute just starts running to attempt being effective....

 

I realized I am already pinned. My St3 shooting is deplorable and ineffective. I can barely hit without psyker assistance, and ST3 isn't cutting it... I'm averaging about 2-3 wounds in shooting per squad.

 

On my turn I move out... a lot as one cultist squad is nearly dead, and he's sitting on objectives.

 

I fail all my psychic test.... again.

 

I roll 'rage' on the crazed chart... nice. I rush in the plasma dread, he dies.

 

The meltadread is finally in range, he rushes in, kills one, loses 2 hullpoints in return.

 

This is getting ugly as his biggest losses come from his biker squad from my one helbrute. Otherwise his army is largely at full size.

 

Turn 4:

 

I actually threw all my dice away.

 

I got new dice.

 

I passed all psychic powers (true story).

 

The Psyker, all cocky with all of his stuff turned on is re-rolling just about everything, and ignited Force.... Finally.

 

That squad rushes the Orks sitting in the middle of a factory with a 5+ cover. I re-roll all shots, but only wound 3 times out of 15 shots.... he saves 2. I am within 1" of him now. I roll to assault... snake eyes - 2 for difficult... I'm screwed.

 

The final Helbrute kills one ork, takes fist attacks and dies.

 

I am nearly wiped at this point, and he has about 90% of his army so I conceded!

 

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prot%20Crimson%20Slaughter/Prot%20750%20Crimson%20Slaughter%20turn%203.jpg

 

+++Dead helbrute in upper left did all the killing.

+++ Fail Sorc in upper middle finally makes a move out of cover, as last helbrute dies to the right of him.

+++ You can faintly see Ork bikers hiding behind the factory wall in the center of the picture.

+++ The bikers died on the factory upper floor earlier, while the Battlewagon remains untouched....

+++ I thought tying up 'shooty Orks' with plasma dread was a good idea, but the fist kept hitting.

 

He had a lot of points it was a massive win for him.

 

 

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Damn man that sounds bad tbh it sounds like you need a blind fury jugger lord

[the jeske]

yeah that is just what he needs. doesn't kill a warboss on avarge hits, but gets ID thanks to the warlords swinging back with str 10.

 

I think there are two big problems here. First your trying to do stuff with your cultists. And that is bad. They are effective weaker IG dudes[no orders, no blobs, no specials, no heavies]. The squads should have been minimal and the sorc should have been made more pro active[bike] to use his psy powers/force ax to more effect. And if mini cultists were taken then the rest of the list should have been tough powerful units. a Biker star, 8[or more] terminators. Anything that starts on table and can be made resilient or be worth of buffing. This list lacks such models. I mean your not going to buff the cultists[or at least shouldn't have] the bikes will offten be out range for the sorc to buff[and 4 man sacrificial unit isn't the best target for buffing anyway].

 

The second problem is the dreads. Now my personal view on them is irrelevant here. But what is important that units like that should be fool proof. You took 3 dreads. They should have been 3 of the same type. MM+flamer. LAs/RL. And an important thing If a dread doesn't have a pod you never deep strike it. the scatter[we have no homers] is too much of a gamble for MM units[to get in to the 12" range you would need 4 dreads and even then it is one shot that can wiff or get covered].

 

What is even more odd 2 fiends would have probably done better, be their shoty[multi shot units gain more from buffs] or melee[smaller cultists sorc on a bike and a tele buff mauler could tanks a lot of deathstars alone].

[Dallas Drake]

I don't know much about Orks but that Warboss is a bargain and a pain to deal with at 750pts too.

 

Reading your bat rep I can't help but think, "what did the Sorcerer do?" Also, I hate putting anything in Cultist squads, like jeske said, 2x10 and just plonk them, gtg & forget.

[Prot]

Yes that is the one thing he said that I agree with. 

 

I made the huge mistake of thinking I could make them 'function' as a unit... and even worse I put a real HQ in there with them. Now what if they had a Crimson Slaughter Cursed Crozius with Warp Medium? Giving both squads Zeal/Hatred? He's only 130 points? (I think... the 'normal' Dark Apostle is 110?) 

 

Anyway, my thinking at the time was 1) I just fail with Possessed in smaller games especially. 2) what other troop options do I have? Cultists actually did work for me in a Helcult formation with a shooty dread... or even a half shooty dread that could back them up if they get tied in with something nasty.

 

So point 1 lead me to think go with cheap options. Point 2 lead me to think I couldn't afford do a 4 th dread and I still wouldn't have a complete list.. ugh. 

 

I wanted to do the batrep up because while it's obvious my list sucked, I prefer to be honest and show that it's not all roses whenever I do batreps. Seriously though the codex feels more dated than ever to me lately. I truly hate saying that because I've been a 'I'll make it work anyway' kind of guy for a long time.

 

Yes and Orks are exactly a good counter for what I brought. He had double the models I did, but they had more output, could shoot and assault and an AV14 vehicle is always nice at 750pts! 

 

Truth be told, I've never had a Sorc fail like that before, but lately all of my sorcs have had bad luck... so just more of the same.

 

Thanks for your feedback. 

[Xenith]

The alarm bell for me is over 300pts of your 750pt army off board T1 in the form of the brute formation.

 

Keep the cultists small for objective sitting, or larger and fearless as a bodyguard, in my opinion. If you wanted to keep a brute, a hellcult would work, however leaves you lacking troop choices.

 

You still need a high damage output unit that can hit T2 - dreads are ok, but wont get into combat until T3. I'd agree on bumping the bike unit to more men, and sticking the sorc on a bike.

Or putting the srocerer with termies and going Biomancy.

[Dallas Drake]

Kudos for being honest Prot. I've stuck a Dark Apostle in one of my latest lists (I'm in a campaign based off Mighty Empires but converted to 40K right now, 4 x 1250pt banners). I think for a cheap HQ he isn't bad, not good but not total suck. Plus, it stops my mates moaning about spamming my JuggerLord. I'm also running a big Helcult with a ML/TL-Lascannons Helbrute & 30 odd Cultists. 2 x 10 camper Cultists for troops & it's like 50 odd Cultists for the price of a tooled 10 man Rhino SM squad, not bad since Helcult Cultists are the ones who are more or less fearless! Lol.

 

Personally I just think out troops suck. And since Cultists are the cheapest they allow us to put more points in things that work, that's my logic.

I only use Possessed as elites now, I did run them as troops but they're just way too expensive. Elites out of a Dreadclaw works for me when I need a little Possessed love in my lists.

[Iron Skull Mask]

I think the other way of going about cultists are huge blobs like 25+ with guns, or taking them in a Helbruteformation for fearless (but yeah then you need more troops). I think that the Mayhem formation is not the best choice at 750 pts (like others pointed out too many points, too long off the table), but otherwise of course deep strike them if there is an advantage to be had from this (I mean it's the deal about that formation, and it's a good one, especially against elite armys with lots of Terminators). I think at low points levels you need boddies with lots of small arms, a few specialists (you had the bikers) and weapons of massdestruction to deal with blob armys, like maybe a vindicator, or flamers in cultist blobs, sorc with pyromancy, Baledrake (although its another big part of the army that may arrive too late). Just my two cents.

 

Oh, and speaking of tough luck: happens man, don't let it wear you down. Simply get up again and muster your forces for the next game!

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

As always great seen the battle report Prot :D

 

Looking that the game & list.  Have you though of maybe trying the Helbrute/Cultist formation along with two standard Elite Helbrute instead of the Mayhem pack one?  Just thinking because of the game & list - If they did not arrive until turn 4?  Or they mis-scatter like one of them did in your report?  Just sort of all your eggs in one basket for the type of points your gaming that.
Just thinking might be best keeping them on the ground from turn 1.  Give you that mobile fire base & then counter attack anything in combat.  Or possible drop one for a Obliterator just help out a little & possible use him for Deep strike duty to claim those far away object & other task like take on the Battle wagon?

 

Just with the Ork Warboss being the main threat once he get into combat.  The Battlewagon would be a headache but depend the table space (4v4 or 6v4 table?) could set up to make it spend a turn or two trying to get to you.

 

I know when I game vs my friend Orks.  I'm greatful they always set up the Lootas to far to the right or left & I will set up to try keep as far away as possible until my Heldrake or Lord with Terminators bodyguard (depend how game going) arrive to deal with them.  Other than that, it the 10 Mega Armour Orks in a Battlewagon that I need to try deal with as soon as possible :(

[Prot]

Yes, those battlewagons are a pain if you can't get something to deal with them. In such a small points game, and in my next game, we all played 4x4 tables for this campaign until we get over 1,000 pts.

 

Speaking of small arms, and lots of bodies... this might be insane but I've been tossing the idea around of taking out Khârn's Butcherhord for the 1K game this week. I probably won't but man it is tempting. I can only get the 8 minimum size squads in, the CSM each get one meltagun, the Berzerkers each get a Champ with an Axe, or Powermaul, and of course Khârn. But at 1K no fancy stuff... no icons, no rhino's, just 40 CSM... and no Space Hippies! 

 

I'm just thinking on a 4x4 table at 1K, even eldar might have trouble escaping me.... but I'd just love to clock that Nid army or Ork army I've been seeing....

 

Anyway, about that game: yea the Helbrutes actually came in on turn 2. One of the scattered miserably far right into an Ork... BARELY within an inch of him. My opponent thought it was border line, but to me, I didn't have an inch clearance. It was my call, and I said it was a misshap. We rolled, and he got to place him in no man's land out in the boonies. 

 

The dreads died much faster than I thought they would, but honestly the red one with the heavy flamer got to fire twice because of fire frenzy... and he did smoke about half of the bike squad, and then overwatched one more.... The truth is at that point level a Warboss on a bike with a claw is incredibly potent. (I will add I played him again with Necrons and even though I won handidly, he did smoke my Overlord in one unsaved wound, insta-blicking him.) That's a tough SOB in that bike squad (at 1850 he always plays them with FnP... which is gross for that squad.)

 

So yea, I think the Helcult with a shooty dread is perfectly valid except as everyone has noted... I still have no troops.

 

I have made a list at 1K that has a no holds barred kind of element to it (except no daemons or allies) and it's got a Baledrake in it which could be really gross at 1K (bye bye jinking Bike squads that everyone seems to use).

 

Anyway I'm on the fence right now. I gotta Dark Angel list I might bring. This chaos list was so beaten up, it might be hiding in the eye of terror for a few million years til the dust settles. lol

[Trevak Dal]

Why couldn't you take Chaos Space Marines as troops? Yeah you wouldn't be able to afford so many or special weapons, but they'd at least be t4.

I don't know, I have bias against Cultists.

 

40 unmounted Chaos Space marines with no spawn?  That's going to be a Mad World Gears of War moment.

https://youtu.be/hL82JEQhYAo

 

 

Edit:  Dark Angels AND chaos?  Oh my, you sir are a glutton for punishment.  And if you're coming up against BS and Cheese-then Knuckle up and fight dirty too.

 

My chaos army is pretty much "Loyalist style" with Rhinos and such, that as Jeske would point out, would be much easier on me to run with Space Wolves or some other loyalists.  I run it like a fist towards the highest concentration.  Oh I got objectives?  Well the oblits will sit on one, but everyone knows that as far as I'm concerned-they can hold all the objectives they want, I can get all the cards for "Hold this point" or "Hold that Point" I'm going to see how many guys I can kill, end of line.

[BetterOffShred]

Yeah Orks are pretty good below 1000 points in my opinion.   I'm with Trevak Dal, I usually try to bring the pain when I play Chaos.

 

-Brett

[Prot]

Why couldn't you take Chaos Space Marines as troops? Yeah you wouldn't be able to afford so many or special weapons, but they'd at least be t4.

I don't know, I have bias against Cultists.

 

40 unmounted Chaos Space marines with no spawn?  That's going to be a Mad World Gears of War moment.

 

https://youtu.be/hL82JEQhYAo

 

 

Edit:  Dark Angels AND chaos?  Oh my, you sir are a glutton for punishment.  And if you're coming up against BS and Cheese-then Knuckle up and fight dirty too.

 

My chaos army is pretty much "Loyalist style" with Rhinos and such, that as Jeske would point out, would be much easier on me to run with Space Wolves or some other loyalists.  I run it like a fist towards the highest concentration.  Oh I got objectives?  Well the oblits will sit on one, but everyone knows that as far as I'm concerned-they can hold all the objectives they want, I can get all the cards for "Hold this point" or "Hold that Point" I'm going to see how many guys I can kill, end of line.

 

You're right, I could just go vanilla on the troops. I've personally never been a big fan of cultists either. I just don't like short people with shaved heads and pointy sticks.... Seriously though, I only found them usable as a tiny squad on a quad gun sitting on a maelstrom objective, or as part of a Helcult, and that's it.

 

And to be fair I haven't played even a single squad of CSM for a long time and this 1K Campaign week might be the perfect reason to try it again.

 

I like that you play 'loyalist' style... frankly I don't care if anyone thinks it's detrimental to my lists. I prefer it to daemons and also it's kind of the crimson slaughter thing to be a fairly coherent chapter. That said, I do enjoy daemonic machinery. I see it as a mix of old tech and warp tech....

 

I am stuck between playing a more potent style of army, and playing units I want to field because they look or feel cool. Unfortunately the codex does have it's fair share of duds.

 

I have to accept that some units I really want to try because I own the models and NEVER use them will very likely cost me games. Let's be honest, there's a lot of reasons we play this game. And I took a little break from Chaos because I was getting sick of using about 1/10 of the codex.... bikers, DP's, Oblits, etc... I have a shelving unit full of Chaos that is nearly brand new that I've never even assembled or used because it's not 'optimal'.

 

So I'm going to try to be economical but have some fun. I know I'll get pasted by a lot of these armies I'm facing.. it is what it is.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Prot i personally like to mix loyalist style (csm tacticals in rhinos termies deep striking in havocs hanging back pew pewing) with chaos specific stuff (cultists oblits + daemons)

[Trevak Dal]

Yeah, the 4th edition book everybody hates is the first chaos book I had.  I'd seen the other ones (they turned me away from Chaos as I've written before)

 

Daemons, even though they are Battle Brothers just don't synergize with our army.

 

I don't typically mark my Ctacs anymore-but I do give them the extra close combat weapons-those extra attacks have saved my guys from Wraith Blades, and can make even a wounded squad still have teeth in a combat.  I'd thought about Iron Warriors myself, but didn't care for the Hazard stripes and was already starting on my Grey Knights, and didn't want another metallic army.

 

I love raptors.  Space Marines on bikes is kinda dumb to me and orkish.  I got six total, but I don't use them much outside of fighting High Rider Killteams of knights and the like where I need extra melta or plasma guns.

 

The helcult is good to support my two Obliterators.  While they are on their "off" phase, the Helbrute is firing his Lascannon, and provides an excellent counter charge unit incase the Oblits take any flack from fast movers.