Chairman_woo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I've had this idea bouncing around my head for a couple of days and can't make my mind up so I figured I'd just throw it out there. DantePriest with JP, valour's edge and angels wing8-10 Vanguard veterans with JPSprinkle storm shields, melta pistols and CC weapons I love sanguinary guard but they have a crippling problem with the plentiful ap2 necrons, tau and grav heavy ultras I usually have to face have i.e. no invun.They work well for me as a supporting surgical strike unit vs troops and such but seem a poor fit for making a ballbuster for serious linebreaking (and consequently being a fire magnet)Command squads seem too small and limited in options for heavy lifting. And Death company don't really seem like they need characters to get things done (and presumably you'd be going with Astorath even if you did)So I gravitated towards vanguard (especially seeing as how I already have some)Dante & priest confer D6 scatter with a reroll + a reroll to mishaps. Seems like it would allow you to be aggressive enough on the drop to get use out of the melta pistols if tactically expedient (probably not for the 3" melta but S8 shots are still very handy). Then I was thinking 3-4 storm shields and a fist & hammer or so. Either drop aggressively and pour in 3 or 4 S8 melta shots (if they have support nearby), or use the "safeish" deepstrike to expand options for isolated drop sites. Then fly around subsequent turns smashing faces or tanking dangerous units with the shields and FnP.Also attractive (if situational) is the lack of disordered charge penalties which coupled with the ability to detach Dante can allow you to tie up a couple (possibly even 3 if tightly packed) of units at a time without loosing charge buffs (big deal for us). The obvious flaw seems to be cost so I guess there's an underlying question of how far to dial the wargear back before they stop working. (maybe the pistols are a bit much & just stick to CC?)I'm curious as to what others think or would do differently. I have some Grey knight allies I plan to use with the Deep strike detachment and the rest of my army is focused heavily on jump packs and drop pods.Still finding my feet with this codex TBH, not had many games with it so any suggestions along the lines of making Jump/Deepstrike based armies work would be welcome. Are turn 1 drop Grey Knights a good compliment to what I'm trying to achieve here? I have a DNK, some interceptors, Termies and Paladins in my collection. Seems like they can all really bolster BA's turn 1 presence which TBH seems like the biggest obstacle to alpha striking with lots of jump pack units. My BA army is very heavily Jump pack based so I'd like to preserve this as much as possible. I do have plenty of terminators though (BA and GK). Brother Captain stern + priest & hammernators = win?Sorry for the avalanche of questions, I've suddenly been faced by both the new Necron book and a new player with a Tau army so I'm now finding myself having to seriously up my game or get pasted on a regular basis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304425-vanstarand-other-questions-from-an-out-of-touch-ba-player/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Personally I think Vanguard are my favorite of the jump infantry options we have. I want to love Sanguinary Guard, but no invul save ruins them in the current environment. DC are great, but again no invul. Vangaurd are basically our old Veteran Assault Squad from 3rd-4th edition (though without the meltaguns they used to have). Don't upgrade them too much, I've been doing 8 Vangaurd, half with storm shields. 1 Power fist, 1 power sword, perhaps another power axe or a relic blade depending on mood. 1-2 Meltabombs as well. Add Priest and if you feel like it Dante. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304425-vanstarand-other-questions-from-an-out-of-touch-ba-player/#findComment-3972412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Command squads seem too small and limited in options for heavy lifting. If you find CS too small, run two side by side. Just some numbers to think about: 10 Vanguards, 4 Shields, 2 power swords + JP priest = 370 2 * 5-man Command Squads w/ 2 Shields = 290 That and the Vanguards can't have meltaguns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304425-vanstarand-other-questions-from-an-out-of-touch-ba-player/#findComment-3972428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Command squads seem too small and limited in options for heavy lifting. If you find CS too small, run two side by side. Just some numbers to think about: 10 Vanguards, 4 Shields, 2 power swords + JP priest = 370 2 * 5-man Command Squads w/ 2 Shields = 290 That and the Vanguards can't have meltaguns. I will say that is a good point. If you aren't using the priest as your mandatory HQ, and you have the spare Elites slot, this is a good way to save points and get versatility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304425-vanstarand-other-questions-from-an-out-of-touch-ba-player/#findComment-3972437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Command squads seem too small and limited in options for heavy lifting. If you find CS too small, run two side by side. Just some numbers to think about: 10 Vanguards, 4 Shields, 2 power swords + JP priest = 370 2 * 5-man Command Squads w/ 2 Shields = 290 That and the Vanguards can't have meltaguns. I dont think the initiate grants +1 WS though? But it is a good way to make your points go further! They can also take claw + sheild + melta combo, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304425-vanstarand-other-questions-from-an-out-of-touch-ba-player/#findComment-3973001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I dont think the initiate grants +1 WS though? But it is a good way to make your points go further! They can also take claw + sheild + melta combo, right? No +1 WS and no extra AP2 at initiative (4 Attacks @S5 & I5 on a charge no less). You also don't get one squad with both descent of angels and the angels wing bonuses (for risky deep-strike placement). No doubting that for just getting FnP the command squads are cheaper though, but it seems like they operate best in a slightly different role (i.e. strategic melta & tanking/tarpitting dangerous counter CC units at the expense of outright linebreaking & fire magnetism) I dare say that in the hands of a more experienced player the command sqauds would probably prove more efficient, but would maybe require a bit more finesse to get the most out of? Based on what's been said so far it seems like 2x command are better in isolation, but if you want to make a Dantestar surely you need the extra bodies in one squad to try and mitigate being picked off? (people really don't like Dante) I'm certainly considering a separate melta command squad for it's own utility now anyway, though they still don't seem to be ideal for what I'm trying to do here instead of the vanguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304425-vanstarand-other-questions-from-an-out-of-touch-ba-player/#findComment-3973021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It seems to me like those two units would work well together, 10 man VV and 2x HG for 660pts? All can start on the field or deepstrike with Dante's redu ed scatter as needs be. Add Dante and the HQ priest puts these at about 1kpts, with 500 more pts of stuff at 1500. Seems pretty nice to me! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304425-vanstarand-other-questions-from-an-out-of-touch-ba-player/#findComment-3973052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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