Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 What would be better as a supplementary force for my Space Wolves, to use the Tempestus Scions book, or to run them as veterans from the Astra Militarum book? I'd run them as veterans so as to keep the BS4, and their range would be on par with my wolves. But i'd be able to use them for troops, and I'd get access to tanks and Sentinels more easily. I see using the models in a very versatile way. I want to use them as Gue'Vesas for my Tau, Skaerls for my Wolves, and Allies for my Dark Angels. I'd like to use them to build up an IG army as well. So they're going to be painted in a way that fits those concepts. But for use with Space marines, how would you employ IG as allies. I was thinking veterans because BS4 and they're cheap. That would give me access to the Valks and Leman Russ Tanks and Baneblades that I really want. Because SM tanks are kinda one trick ponies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'd just use them as vets and load them either in Chimeras or Taurox. I'd take a Vendetta over the Valkyrie. My vets are used as a flanking force. I put them and my CCS in Chimeras and while my arty, tanks and regular troops pin down my opponent. I snap out with heavy flamers, meltas and plasma. Nothing says good morning like 10 veterans with an autocannon heavy weapons teams at close range. And normally by the time my opponent takes out my vet's transports. It's too late to really do them any good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Ok. So do you employ standard infantry platoons or just vets? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I field a platoon of 3 squads with heavy weapons under a PCS. I have a vet squad with hvy weps in a Chimera and my CCS in a Chimera. I run a Vendetta with 5 Scions as a reserve. Depending on how the situation is on that second turn. I can either Deep Strike my scions in or run them in my Vendetta. I like to say I run an armor heavy list but I'm very much combined arms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The biggest benefit to running them as vets are the inclusion of a third special weapon and the use of Chimeras (which are superior to Taurox Primes in almost every way in my mind.) Grenadier doctrine gives them the nice +4 save. Fielding them as Militarum Tempestus has some interesting points though. First, the orders are better. Twin-linked or Preferred Enemy outpaces Tank Hunters in my esteem. You also gain deep strike, which, when combined with Move Through Cover, is kinda sweet. Finally, you have the AP3 main weapon, which is more beneficial than most people give it credit for. I'd ask this, how do you want to use them? Taurox? Chimera? Deep Striking? This is going to greatly influence which is a better method of use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Vets are more flexible, so if you're not sure I'd go with them as a safer bet. As libris said it comes down to how you want to use them on the table top as to whether Vets or Stormies would be best. For allying for Marines, Platoons are best in my opinion. The bodies and guns is just what Marines lack and you can add some nice tanks too that can give your list some diverse capabilities :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 The move through cover thing is pretty cool, as is the ability to deep strike. But I'm a bit hesitant to deep strike them, because my rolls tend to suck when I need them. I plan on using Tauroxes (Because I have them) to move my men up the board (primes for the tempestus). This is a stop gap measure, I'd eventually replace them with actual veterans, so I could use them as tempestus in a full on guard list. I had the idea of using them as veterans so that I could make them a springboard into the AM world. Do they still make Armageddon Steel Legion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think you could get away with either option...except that if you field them as veterans, you're pretty much signing up for at minimum always taking the carapace armor upgrade... Personally, I play with either platoons of 35 (3 infantry squads and one platoon command squad) or veteran squads with the forward sentries upgrade...but in all cases, I take a chimera for every squad..."objective secured" chimeras are a no-brainer for the points, empty or full! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 the squad is 60 pts base, for 10 guys, they go to 75 with the carapace armor upgrade. Scions are 70 pts base for five guys. Seems to me that veterans are a better way to go for using them as AM to get tanks and sentinels, but I can take them still as Scions from the MT book, for the move through cover and deep strike and harder hitting tauroxes, depending on how I want to use them in the list. If I want sneaky rangers I can go MT, but if I want QRF rangers I can use AM. This really helps me out. I do need another box of Scions though. I plan on adding some Steel Legion as my Infantry platoon and heavy weapons teams. And using a team of Armored sentinels for mobile fire support, and a squadron of 3 Leman Russ' (2 Battle Tanks, and 1 Punisher). This and a baneblade, with a knight to back it up, will be a nice start to an IG army. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Tauroxes are better armed, but softer-skinned...the difference between AV12 and AV11 is not to be underestimated...and, granted, the chimera has AV10 sides, but barring deepstrikers and outflankers, it's up to you whether the enemy gets out of your front arc. I have little trouble denying flank shots...but I've been playing mech guard for 15 years, so...maybe there's a learning curve involved... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 For now Tauroxes will have to do, because it's what I have. I do like the armaments the taurox has (prime most of all). I also just like the feel of them. They have an MRAP kinda look that I like, and I think they fit the aesthetic of my army idea better than the chimera does. Besides they're cheaper (money and points). I'd like to focus most of the money on Leman Russ tanks, Basilisks, and a Baneblade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
steellegionnaire85 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I've got steel legion you can still buy them off of gw. They are great models but your options are limited. Some of the models are oops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yeah, I found them. I want to do some of them for my infantry platoon, And I'll use Scions for veterans and tempestus. Thematically it fits... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3972901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sox Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The biggest benefit to running them as vets are the inclusion of a third special weapon and the use of Chimeras (which are superior to Taurox Primes in almost every way in my mind.) Grenadier doctrine gives them the nice +4 save. Fielding them as Militarum Tempestus has some interesting points though. First, the orders are better. Twin-linked or Preferred Enemy outpaces Tank Hunters in my esteem. You also gain deep strike, which, when combined with Move Through Cover, is kinda sweet. Finally, you have the AP3 main weapon, which is more beneficial than most people give it credit for. I'd ask this, how do you want to use them? Taurox? Chimera? Deep Striking? This is going to greatly influence which is a better method of use. I'm building an army using both Scions from the Tempestus Codex and Carapace Vets from the Astra Codex. Get the best of both worlds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3973601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain sox Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Here's my first lot of Carapace Vets: http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a496/Odogg242/IMG_20150309_191222_zpsxttfeowv.jpg I simply trimmed the antenna and scopes from the armour, and then shortened the hot shot lasguns into "Stubby" Lasguns. Easier to carry into battle. I also cut the hoses off of them http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a496/Odogg242/IMG_20150309_191241_zpskbf6fys8.jpg easy peasy conversion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3973706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Sox ninja'd me...an hour or so before this post . What could be cool to distinguish your vets would be to take an idea from dear old Cpt Sox and let them have "stubby" guns. Nothing says Quick Reaction Force better than a stubby gun. Well, and knives situated on your upper "weak" arm or chest. Anyway, something to tinker about with in the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3973838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm thinking I'm going to do some green stuff work, and try to make some Chest rigs on my dudes so they look more like Spec ops soldiers. I don't really think I'm going to make a distinction between my vets and MT's, simply because the way I'm envisioning it, is as two different roles for the same soldiers. I see them like the 75th ranger regiment, I'd use them as MT's if I were going for a special reconnaissance type mission moving through cover trying to get in position to observe and ambush, and I'd use them as vets to use them like the Ranger QRF, where their coming in hard and fast to wreck your day and pull troops out of contact. Both iterations are support troops for my Space Wolves. I'd have a regular infantry platoon to be the weapons platoon, bringing the heavy guns and their security. I hope that makes sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3973924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm thinking I'm going to do some green stuff work, and try to make some Chest rigs on my dudes so they look more like Spec ops soldiers. I don't really think I'm going to make a distinction between my vets and MT's, simply because the way I'm envisioning it, is as two different roles for the same soldiers. I see them like the 75th ranger regiment, I'd use them as MT's if I were going for a special reconnaissance type mission moving through cover trying to get in position to observe and ambush, and I'd use them as vets to use them like the Ranger QRF, where their coming in hard and fast to wreck your day and pull troops out of contact. Both iterations are support troops for my Space Wolves. I'd have a regular infantry platoon to be the weapons platoon, bringing the heavy guns and their security. I hope that makes sense. What you've got going on makes perfect sense to me now. The gears in my noggin weren't working before ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3974014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 I just wish standard lasguns were better, but then I've had entire Terminator squads go down to massed lasgun fire. Make the opponent roll enough dice and anything will die I suppose. Is there an option I'm not seeing for vets that is better? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3974277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 No, aside from BS4 they have the same weapons as normal Guardsmen. As you say the strength of lasguns is in their number - get enough guns and you can make a mockery of even Terminators as spam fire is always effective. Bolster them with orders, such as First Rank Fire and they can do even more. If it's standard weapon output you want then probably better to look at Platoons - Vets are about the special weapons more than anything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3974288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Yeah I noticed they can take one more than a tempestus squad. I think I have a pretty good idea of how to run them at 1500pts. I like the Taurox prime a lot more than the standard taurox, so until I have a better option, I'm probably going to run them as tempestus. I'll probably use one squad dismounted, and the other deepstriking in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3974631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsam Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 They're a nice kit and they'd make nice veterans! It's just a shame that they cost £21 for 5! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3974649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Truth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304428-tempestus-scions-as-veterans/#findComment-3974713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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