AM vs Tau tactics? help?

[fabambina]

we've got a new player in our group, and he is using tau. i've never faced them before, but i learned one thing: go for the markerlights first.

 

we play mostly 500-1000 points around here, and at lower points we play combat patrol rules. there seem to be very few tacticas for AM vs tau. i can't even search these forums, because tau is a 3 lettered word and this forum's search utility requires 4 letters or more. 

can anyone help me out? i know very little about this seemingly OP army. i mean, they were tough to beat. 

[Chefzilla]

Actually no they aren't. You have much stronger artillery and, if I remember correctly, better armor on your tanks. They can edge you out in firepower however. Wyvrens and Vanquishers for the win.

 

I've gone against Tau about half a dozen times and come out on top 5 times. Take out his Pathfinders first then concentrate on his tanks. Then pummel the crap out of him with arty.

[fabambina]

Actually no they aren't. You have much stronger artillery and, if I remember correctly, better armor on your tanks. They can edge you out in firepower however. Wyvrens and Vanquishers for the win.

 

I've gone against Tau about half a dozen times and come out on top 5 times. Take out his Pathfinders first then concentrate on his tanks. Then pummel the crap out of him with arty.

 

and by artillery, you mean wyverns and vanquishers? any other recommendations? in lower point games wyverns are verbotten. that is, you cannot take them in 500-750 point games due to AV.

[Chefzilla]

Is this some home rule set? Wyvrens are 65 points much less than a Vanquisher. So you're not allowed artillery?

[fabambina]

Is this some home rule set? Wyvrens are 65 points much less than a Vanquisher. So you're not allowed artillery?

there is a popular FoC for smaller games, generally called Combat Patrol or various other names. it is a utility for running smaller games. it is used at conventions such as adepticon and many others. it restricts vehicles in lower point games to some variation of "lower AV values". for example, all AV must total less than 32 or 33 or no side more than 11 or 12 or dedicated transports have exceptions. 

 

in short, in most of these situations wyverns, with 13 AV, are out.

[Myrkul]

You can easily fit a wyvvern in in 500-750.

 

Tau is a short range gun line, stay at 36'+ and range him down, depending on what he's running, and bare-bones executioner is not a bad option and will make short work of pathfinders/firewarriors.

 

Its hard to give you specific advice w/o knowing what he's running. But be wary of getting vehicles to close to fire warriors, EMP grenades are bad news. Dont underestimate Kroot, and if he has suits expect them to deepstrike in behind your tank(s).

 

But yeah target number 1 is marker lights, after those are dead theyre really managable. Buffmander if he's running him, broadsides after that. Oh ignore riptides till the end, w/o markers theyre not that amazing and are really just expensive bullet spounges.

[librisrouge]

At lower points, go for Conscript blobs. 115 points gets you 30 guys and a ministorum priest to escort them around. They'll easily out melee any tau close enough to charge and can throw enough shots out to kill a pathfinder or two a turn. More importantly, they'll give a +5 cover to anything behind them, forcing the Tau to waste markerlights that they might not otherwise use, or, and even better, to waste shots on your 3 point mooks.

[fabambina]

You can easily fit a wyvvern in in 500-750.

 

nowadays, many people who play lower point games play some version of combat patrol rules. these restrict FoC by factors other than unit costs. see my answer above.

 

but good advice on the other stuff!

they'll give a +5 cover to anything behind them, forcing the Tau to waste markerlights that they might not otherwise use, or, and even better, to waste shots on your 3 point mooks.

 

explain this, please, sounds intriguing. don't markerlights just need LoS? can't they just target my chimera behind the blob? or, if it is a HWS behind that blob, wouldn't that block my OWN LoS?

[WarriorFish]

He plays some dirty xenos; you play the Imperial Guard. You've already won the real battle.

 

If you're talking on the table top though, then you need to play to Guard's strengths. Both armies are shooting focused (Guard being the original, never forget) so if you're getting into a slugging match at range then you'll need to focus on lots of guns and models to make the most of the codex. Don't just stand and shoot though, get some manoeuvres in and if you can get in close for some mischief.

 

The Wyvern is AV12/10/10 - so shouldn't it be legal?

[Chefzilla]

I was going to make the point that if you can take a Chimera. Shouldn't you be able to take a Wyvren or Basilisk? How about a Master of Ordinance?

[fabambina]

firstly, forgive me for not being clear on the combat patrol rules. my fault for assuming. they are ubiquitous nowadays on the tourney circuit and all my regulars are in it, we attend at least one a month. made an ass of myself due to assuming. apologies, good friends!

in combat patrol, most forms of it anyway, vehicles with AV of 11 or less only, except dedicated transports, which can be 12. except when the rules is all AVs must equal 32, except when it is 33. 

 

so, sometimes wyverns are good, sometimes not. 

 

yea, it's messed up.

 

also, my opponent likes pathfinders, markerlights, and broadsides. that was how he did the real damage. 

[librisrouge]

 

explain this, please, sounds intriguing. don't markerlights just need LoS? can't they just target my chimera behind the blob? or, if it is a HWS behind that blob, wouldn't that block my OWN LoS?

 

The markerlights will still be able to shoot the units behind the Conscripts BUT the Tau player now has a choice, raise my BS or remove the cover save. Without that screening unit, they'll just raise their BS and lay into you. If they raise their BS, there is a chance that your Conscripts will save lives with the save they grant.

[Cap'm Heckus]

Lascannon scout sentinels? 3 to a squad and can come in via outflanking to avoid getting mowed down I turn one. Or missile launchers or heavy flamers. I assume a smaller battle field is used for smaller points?

 

Maybe 30-man blobs with priests.

 

The rules seem kinda skewed in their favor: their guns are higher strength and longer range and they can take frikkin' broadsides where as most of your equivalent firepower is "illegal" just because it's AV based. AM is left with blobs and ogryn.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

My suggestion is kill the pathfinders first, that's how they get you with Missilesides. They markerlight you up, strip your cover, and then hammer you with the high yield missile pods.

 

 

Tau is a short range gun line, stay at 36'+ and range him down, depending on what he's running, and bare-bones executioner is not a bad option and will make short work of pathfinders/firewarriors.

 

No, they aren't. Fire warriors can gunline pretty well. At S5 AP5, they'll ignore flak armor, and can glance out light vehicles. At 30" they're out ranging you for infantry weapons. Their meltas have 6" more range, Their Plasma is -1S but doesn't get hot, still 24" and rapid fire. The Pulse accelerator drone adds 6" to pulse weapons, bringing Carbines to 24" and Rifles to 36". It's the broadsides you have to watch out for. The rail rifles are pretty reliable at punching through AV. HY Missile Pods rain heavy on the missiles. That's the thing to watch out for. Bear in mind, there are not a lot of low AP weapons in the Tau arsenal. Rail rifles/guns, Fusion Blasters, and Plasma Rifles, that's about it. There could be more, but that's all I can remember off hand.

 

Oh ignore riptides till the end, w/o markers theyre not that amazing and are really just expensive bullet spounges.

 

I wouldn't suggest ignoring riptides as a matter of course. Use some judgement, I use riptides for fire support because I don't have broadsides, and because Broadsides aren't as mobile. So beware of his build and how he employs his units, before figuring out how to prioritize targets. Keep the pathfinders in your sights, because they're a hefty force multiplier.

[CyderPirate]

Outflanking scout sentinels with heavy flamers should take out the fire warriors and their pesky marker lights. (How dare their flashlights work better than ours!)

[irwit]

 

Is this some home rule set? Wyvrens are 65 points much less than a Vanquisher. So you're not allowed artillery?

there is a popular FoC for smaller games, generally called Combat Patrol or various other names. it is a utility for running smaller games. it is used at conventions such as adepticon and many others. it restricts vehicles in lower point games to some variation of "lower AV values". for example, all AV must total less than 32 or 33 or no side more than 11 or 12 or dedicated transports have exceptions. 

 

in short, in most of these situations wyverns, with 13 AV, are out.

 

wyverns are av13 ? 

[librisrouge]

Wyverns are 12/10/10 in my book. Pick up a couple a tear those firewarriors apart dude.

[Vash]

I am an extensive Tau/Farsight Enclave player (please to NOT EXECUTE ME!, I have more loyalist forces than xenon armies ;) )
Do you know what he usually brings? Because, Tau isn't just stand and shoot, and neither is the guard. The guard can do almost anything the Tau can, but with higher numbers. 

Also to remember, not all Tau players rely on marker lights, some include pathfinder just because other players think they are the most important ones. Thus making them decoys. If you see that the Tau player has twin-linked weapons, expect that he isn't focusing much on marker lights. Get the twin-linked weapon units ASAP!

[march10k]

Tau has trouble with defeating AV14, they don't have the melee to do it with and their only real shooty options are longstrike (he's nasty against IG) and melta...Prolly don't have to worry about longstrike at lower points.  You probably can't prevent melta from deepstriking in, so just take the hit and ensure that the melta-shot is the last thing that foul xenos does.  He can't reliably deepstrike in and kill a tank with a single suit, especially not a cheap one, but you can reliably torrent the offending suit to death...if he wants to reliably kill your tank that way, he has to spend as many points on his suicide melta suits as you spent on the tank.  So...advantage you?  Tau excels at killing medium and heavy infantry, as well as light vehicles.  Minimize your AV12 and spam the infantry and the russes, and you should create a mismatch in your favor.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Watch out for the farsight target locked melta bomb. (Farsight+ 8 crisis suits with TL Fusion Blasters, all with the ability to fire independently). I've eliminated a full squadron of leman russes plus pask, with that arrangement. 

 

I don't take pathfinders for markerlights, I take them for the big guns they have. Rain rifle is S6 AP1 Rapid fire 30" range, Ion rifle is S7 AP4 Rapid fire 30" range or S8 AP4 Heavy 1 Blast gets hot! 

[CommissarZac]

Yeah the only way I know to defeat Tau cheese is with Leman Russ Spam.  And any game that won't let me take my tanks is just not for me.  I would tell him if he wants to join the big boys stop cowering behind "Combat Patrol Rules"

[fabambina]

Do you know what he usually brings

He has limited models, so he usually goes with the same.

 

He uses Pathfinders with markerlights, and broadsides to do most of the damage, with ion rifles also hammering vehicles.

 

 

His fire warriors usually fall right away to whatever I shoot at them.

[Captain Antonius]

Just take a ton of guys, no upgrades at all. March forward into the guns. He can't kill em all before you get to close combat. Or you ccould take a ton of mortars and an Aegis defense line and hide and make him come to you. At those point levels, you'll have two men for thier one.

 

Unorthodox tactics will probably be your friend here. He probably knows what most people will do with the guard. Do something that no one else will do. Take Creed and outflank the majority of your army and go to close combat for example.

[Chefzilla]

Yeah the only way I know to defeat Tau cheese is with Leman Russ Spam.  And any game that won't let me take my tanks is just not for me.  I would tell him if he wants to join the big boys stop cowering behind "Combat Patrol Rules"

My thoughts exactly. This rule set seems very lopsided to me. I'd say if you want to do small point games. Drop this rule set and go Kill Team. Much, much more fun.

[librisrouge]

also, my opponent likes pathfinders, markerlights, and broadsides. that was how he did the real damage. 

WOW, WOW, WOW...your opponent is potentially cheating (unless I'm mistaken.)

 

Broadsides have a +2 save, yes?

 

I have never seen a version of combat patrol rules that allow +2 saves, for the same reason they restrict high AV. The original rules for this setup (4th or 5th edition main book) did not allow better than a +3. Ask your group to restrict +2 saves if they're going to limit your vehicles. See how they like that bit of fairness.