AM vs Tau tactics? help?

[march10k]

Agreed...I play kill team, too...it's not that I'm outraged that AV14 is banned (and 12/12/10, such as hellhounds and dreadnoughts, as well), it's that AV14 is banned while 2+ armor is allowed. 

 

Can I join your group with my dark Angels?  Belial, five terminators, and a five man tactical squad would brutalize those tau when Belial and co deepstrike on turn one without scatter to drop a heavy flamer on the pathfinders, splitting fire to hose down something else with ten twinlinked stormbolter shots...and you don't have to go far above 500 points before it's suddenly eleven terminators dropping in for a visit.  I'm just saying that 2+ armor saves are equally as broken in a "small ball" setting as high AV is.

[librisrouge]

Go full mechanized. His list is designed to take advantage of the fact that you're all infantry. Three squads in chimeras will destroy him. Give each a heavy flamer. All that fancy S5 weaponry will mean nothing pattering off some AV12.

 

Something Like:

Veteran Squad - Flamer x3

Veteran Squad - Meltagun x3

Veteran Squad - Plasmagun x3

Chimera x3 - Multilaser and Heavy Flamer

Remaining points spent of rough terrain modifications

 

Keep the AV12 toward the most dangerous enemies. Send the flamers after his infantry, meltas after his few vehicles and suits, and plasma murder the suits specifically. 

 

Of course, this requires you to get a few Chimeras so it might not be tenable.

[CoffeeGrunt]

It also relies on the opponent not taking the S7 spam lists Tau are pretty proficient at fielding...

 

I didn't realise that you couldn't take AV12/12/10 vehicles, so ignore my note on anything in the Fast Attack slot that isn't Scout Sentinels. Also the only option you have in Heavy Support then is the Wyvern.

 

You see, this is my problem. Tau have Sniper Drone Teams and Broadsides, you get the Wyvern. Tau have Piranhas, Pathfinders, Vespid, and Drone Squadrons, you have Sentinels. There's a serious cutting away of options available to you that I, personally, would find unfair, as many others do here. 

 

Not to mention Tau getting access to Stealth and Crisis Suits as solid Elites options, whereas we have the overpriced-but-servicable Ogryn units, Ratlings which will last nanoseconds against Tau with T2, and Scions which are decent but won't inflict much damage with HS Lasguns. They might work with Meltaguns dropped in as a suicide unit, however. A unit of five with two is only 90pts, and if they put the hurt on a Broadside or Crisis Suit team, they'll pay their way.

[WarriorFish]

Coffee knows Tau well (heretically so you could say...) so I would defer to him in this matter. It's fine to soldier on but only if you're aware of the disadvantage you're playing at. For the record I don't like modifications to existing rules because they are seldom fair to all.

 

I still think massed troopers is worth trying, and don't forget to kill the marker lights first - that's perhaps the most important bit to remember!

[CommissarZac]

I'm with everyone else here Kill teams is more balanced then combat patrol, or at lest if you're using a 4th edition play style use 4th edition codexs and rules.  Because 7th ed rules and Codexes in a 4th ed play style is highly unfair.

[march10k]

To be fair, though...comparing the elites choices of guard and tau is pretty ridiculous...might as well compare the (full gamut of) tau and guard heavy support choices...certainly, the cream of the tau crop is found under elites in the same way that the strength of the Emprah's Hammer is in armored vehicles, so let's not pretend that "we really only have abhumans" has anything at all to do with the problem here!!!

[fabambina]

 

 

 

this is about playing smaller point games, and "small ball" style gameplay. it is in the spirit of a troop-style game, with supporting vehicles and heavies, but focused on a patrol of mostly troop units.

 

 

 

The other problem is that Tau are designed to be reactive. You have to outplay them in the moment, as out-planning them is near-impossible. They have the mobility and range to put fire down on things, with decent survivability to weather the return if they don't simply evade it. Were your boards bigger, I'd suggest Basilisks, but sadly they won't work here. Lascannons hidden in Guardsman blobs will put the fear of the Emperor into those Broadsides, as you'll outrange and outgun them. Add a Company Command Squad to shout Fire On My Target at them until the Xenos are dead, which will be very quickly if you do it right.

 

Bullgryns could also be quite successful, as if he's list-tailoring against you, he'll likely have forsaken low-AP weaponry, and Tau lack for S10 and AP3 fire quite noticeably. These guys with a Priest could be a serious problem for any unit they catch, and T5 W3 3+Sv is pretty solid. I personally field at least four, with a Power Maul on the Bone'ead, a Priest, and even a Psyker with Biomancy. Getting Endurance off on them will make them horrific to deal with, and most of the other Biomancy powers are still pretty decent. Tau won't out-Psyker you either, thankfully. Force weapons will end those pesky Crisis Suits nice and quick, especially if you get War Hymns off so you can re-roll to Wound.

 

However, this unit will be prohibitively expensive at so low a points value, so they'll be outmaneuvered and unsupported.

 

Maybe just mass Infantry blobs with Lascannons buried in them to take down the suits? A couple of fast, threatening outriders could help distract from them, I think Outflanking Scout Sentinels with Flamers should do it, or maybe a Wyvern hidden at the back to thin out those Pathfinders.

 

now you're talking. this is some good advice. 

 

thanks for getting on board instead of trying to change the parameters. i appreciate this thoughtful tactical advice.

Agreed...I play kill team, too...it's not that I'm outraged that AV14 is banned (and 12/12/10, such as hellhounds and dreadnoughts, as well), it's that AV14 is banned while 2+ armor is allowed. 

 

Can I join your group with my dark Angels?  Belial, five terminators, and a five man tactical squad would brutalize those tau when Belial and co deepstrike on turn one without scatter to drop a heavy flamer on the pathfinders, splitting fire to hose down something else with ten twinlinked stormbolter shots...and you don't have to go far above 500 points before it's suddenly eleven terminators dropping in for a visit.  I'm just saying that 2+ armor saves are equally as broken in a "small ball" setting as high AV is.

2+ armor saves are disallowed.

[CoffeeGrunt]

To be fair, though...comparing the elites choices of guard and tau is pretty ridiculous...might as well compare the (full gamut of) tau and guard heavy support choices...certainly, the cream of the tau crop is found under elites in the same way that the strength of the Emprah's Hammer is in armored vehicles, so let's not pretend that "we really only have abhumans" has anything at all to do with the problem here!!!

 

Uhuh, but my point wasn't that. My point was that the Guard Heavy Support slot is effectively non-existent in the Combat Patrol ruleset.

[march10k]

2+ armor saves are disallowed.

 

 

 

 

Well, then, no problems here!  I'm confused, though, didn't I hear a lot of talk of broadsides?

[fabambina]

 

2+ armor saves are disallowed.

 

 

 

 

Well, then, no problems here!  I'm confused, though, didn't I hear a lot of talk of broadsides?

 

it might be because in my first game with him, unaware that broadsides had a 2+ save, i didn't realize they were verbotten and he was using them. he had just been given the combat patrol parameters on the spot, and had made an army list with battlescribe and didn't realize he had broken that particular rule. 

 

no harm anyway, i zapped one good and then he hid them and fired ineffectually the rest of the game and lost. 

 

you might have read that detail if i wrote it previously. which i think i did.

[march10k]

It's possible that you did mention that, but I did try to track the thread for at least the first two full pages, so maybe not.  In any case, as long as he's not fielding broadsides and such, AV12 front armor should be quite formidable against him, since his primary strength is S5 spam.  I might try veterans with missiles or lascannons (depending on whether he pays for iridium armor) in cover at long range to keep any crisis suits in check with the threat of insta-kill, then advance up the field with maybe two chimeras with hull heavy flamers to root out his infantry?  As a bonus, the chimeras can be objective-secured, so once they roast a few space-commies, they can wrest control of objectives away from any non-troops that might be loitering.