Black_out Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 To start, I absolutely LOVE both models and intend to own at least one of each at some point for my Night Lords army. That being said, I'm having a hard time deciding which I want FIRST and how to use it for that matter. I'm currently leaning towards the Fire Rapto. I love the idea of it deep striking (if Sevatar is on the table can the gunship use him as a teleport homer?) and just dumping an epic payload into a unit. However, I also really like the Storm Eagle for its large transport capacity and it's weapons payload isn't anything terrible either. I foresee the majority of the games I play mostly being up against some form of SM variant if that helps. Also, can someone explain how a flyer works in simple terms? I haven't played since 4e and am still a little uncertain. Thanks in advance! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have no experience using either, but a little experience on the receiving end... A Storm Eagle with passengers is a massive eggs-in-basket target, and whilst it will absorb huge amounts of firepower if your opponent is lacking in Skyfire units, it's very unlikely to see the entire game. If you don't get those passengers on the ground they're almost certainly going to die. Sure, it's weapons are good and you could use it for shooting at things, but if that's the case, why not go for the Fire Raptor first and then the Eagle may catch a break in future when it's not the only bullet magnet in the sky! ----- Flyers come on as Reserves, and always have to move a certain distance (I think it varies depending on certain types?) and have limited, but decent turning circles. You have to Snap Fire (ie 6's to hit) at them unless the unit has 'Skyfire'. If said unit also has 'Interceptor' then they can shoot at it as it moves on to the board, if they can see it and are in range. The Flyer has no such penalties shooting at units on the ground of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 They fill different roles...what hole do you have in your army? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 If the flier has deepstrike you can either fly it on from reserves or plop it down deepstrike style :) If the latter, you'll be able to use a teleport homer unless it says it only works for specific kinds of models. There are different rules depending on if you deepstrike in zoom or hover mode. This is a bit different from the flier rules in the core 40k rule book. I guess heresy era pilots were better :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 They fill different roles...what hole do you have in your army? Currently I'm still building up my forces but I'm going for a Pride of the Legion list composed of Sevatar, some Terminators and some sort of Contemptor talon. I have plenty of Land Raiders so I suppose the Raptor would be a better option since I have several transports already? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Am I right in thinking flyers can start on the board but they have to start as skimmers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Nope. It takes a wilful misreading to read Hover mode as allowing you to start on the battlefield. I hate this sites quote system. AERIAL SUPPORTFlyers must begin the game as Reserves. Special rules that allow an owning player to move one or more of their units out of Reserves after deployment but before the game begins (for example the C’tan Shard power ‘Grand Illusion’) cannot be used to move a Flyer out of Reserves unless they specifically state that Flyers can start the game deployed on the table (such as a Skyshield Landing Pad’s ‘Ready for Takeoff’ rule). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krikey Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One thing that might help ... Storm Eagles are notoriously difficult kits, while the Fire Raptor is not. I know it may seem ridiculous, since they're basically the same, but I spent a great deal of time heating and reshaping my Storm Eagle parts to get them to fit properly. I expected to have to do the same with my Fire Raptor, but had no problems with it. Others have reported issues with the Storm a Eagle as well. They may have fixed the problem, but if not, it might go much easier with the Storm Eagle if you've already had the experience of assembling the Fire Raptor. ~K Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One thing that might help ... Storm Eagles are notoriously difficult kits, while the Fire Raptor is not. I know it may seem ridiculous, since they're basically the same, but I spent a great deal of time heating and reshaping my Storm Eagle parts to get them to fit properly. I expected to have to do the same with my Fire Raptor, but had no problems with it. Others have reported issues with the Storm a Eagle as well. They may have fixed the problem, but if not, it might go much easier with the Storm Eagle if you've already had the experience of assembling the Fire Raptor. ~K It's always hit or miss with FW's resin kits. My experience is actually exactly the opposite: Storm Eagle had little to no warping, and my Fire Raptor... I don't like to talk about my Fire Raptor... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 What about a Caestus assault ram? It functions as a transport and as a juggernaut. I wouldn't discount its blast template melta either to destroy things, especially contemptors, knights, Sicarans, etc. Plus you get the almighty 5++ save on it and AV13 to try and weather the AA storm in the forms of a Deredeo or Kheresnaught. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I would say fire raptor only because I've had horrible times with transport flyers. Also when deciding between them you should ask what do you need more in your force: a big flying troop assualt carrier? Or a gunship with lots of dakka? I am a new night lords player and I'm definetly getting a fire raptor for my army! They seem like they were made for each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 What about a Caestus assault ram? It functions as a transport and as a juggernaut. I wouldn't discount its blast template melta either to destroy things, especially contemptors, knights, Sicarans, etc. Plus you get the almighty 5++ save on it and AV13 to try and weather the AA storm in the forms of a Deredeo or Kheresnaught. Not a bad idea! They're really hard to bring down. 2 would be a real head ache for your enemy.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 What about a Caestus assault ram? It functions as a transport and as a juggernaut. I wouldn't discount its blast template melta either to destroy things, especially contemptors, knights, Sicarans, etc. Plus you get the almighty 5++ save on it and AV13 to try and weather the AA storm in the forms of a Deredeo or Kheresnaught. It is also able to tank shock, something which most flyers cannot do, and can transport the same number of models (10) whether they be in power armour, or terminator armour. Not used one myself (although I really, really, want to), but they seem like an ideal delivery method for a hard-hitting, shock assault unit, such as a cataphractii squad loaded for bear. It would also look amazing in a VIII Legion midnight & lightning scheme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I own a pair of Storm Eagles & a single Fire Raptor. They're both great models, although they can be a pain to put together if you're unlucky. I typically run my Storm Eagle with lascannons & multi-melta, which increases the cost dramatically, but makes it an effective vehicle/flyer killer. For the cost though - nearly 300 points - you really want to be transporting people in it most of the time as equivalent firepower is cheaper elsewhere. If you're running a Pride of the Legion list based around Land Raiders, a Fire Raptor would give you a bit more horde killing capability as you'll have plenty of lascannons on your Land Raiders already. That being said, both are really good, and I think that no matter which one you get you'll find yourself pleased with how it performs (and looks) on the tabletop. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3973904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Thank you everyone for the replies! I always forget about the Caestus! It definitely seems the more viable transport option over the Storm Eagle but I really love the aesthetic of these flyers. I think my mind is set on the Fire Raptor. More dakka is always a good decision lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Ok so I'm decided on the Fire Raptor. Let's talk about loadouts. Armored ceramite, worth it? What about subbing the HB battery for a Reaper battery? The extra strength could be nice to shoot lighter vehicles I suppose? And slightly off topic; does the 'raptor remind anyone else of an A-10 Warthog? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Reaper Autocannons are always worth the cost. Armored Ceramite is debatable since, unless you go into hover mode, they'll have a hard time hitting you and airborne melta is very rare; the most prevalent example being the Caestus and its a Blast Weapon so can't be shot at other flyers, iirc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Reaper Autocannons are always worth the cost. Armored Ceramite is debatable since, unless you go into hover mode, they'll have a hard time hitting you and airborne melta is very rare; the most prevalent example being the Caestus and its a Blast Weapon so can't be shot at other flyers, iirc. What's your logic behind the Reapers if I may ask? I also wondered how common sky fire melta was.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Reapers, are, afaik, S7 Ap4 or something along those lines vs the S5/6 Ap5 of the Heavy Bolters. Less shots but higher wound potential and higher chance of vehicular damage. For only what? 10 points? worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 As Slip said, the increase in strength and reduction in shots is more than worth it (imo), its allows you to actually threaten light armour and other flyers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The most skyfire melta you are likely to come across probably mounted on other fliers, so it's probably not really worth getting AC. Reapers are probably worth it for the above reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Only Skyborne melta that I know of is the Storm Eagle (and/or Raven if your playing 40k) and Caestus. Former with Front TL-Multi-Melta the latter with the Magna Melta - which can't shoot air. If you're up against SA/FR AirCav lists, consider it. Most cases, the short range of Melta Weapons in general will permit you to shoot them sufficiently before they get close to you anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Thanks again everyone! So Reapers=good idea, armored ceramite=situational at best. So maxed out this this will weigh in at around 230pts for MOAR DAKKA!! I can deal with that! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 If you ever need to fill in ~900 points in a list and have 3 Heavy Support Slots empty, you know what to take. Whats that? You have 12 Targets I need to shoot at every turn or I lose? Well, guess what*! :D *Fire raptors can, at most, shoot at 4 different targets each per turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 If you ever need to fill in ~900 points in a list and have 3 Heavy Support Slots empty, you know what to take. Whats that? You have 12 Targets I need to shoot at every turn or I lose? Well, guess what*! :D *Fire raptors can, at most, shoot at 4 different targets each per turn. While potentially hurting anyting with AV13 or less too....muaaahhahahahaha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304469-storm-eagle-or-fire-raptor/#findComment-3974757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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