What Are Knight Pilots Like?

[Julgolax]

An individual who grew up on a technologically advanced feudal world designated as a "Knight World", who was born into a Knight household and raised to be a pilot of a 30 foot tall war machine and trusted with centuries of family tradition, mechanical secrets and savvy, as well as an inherent nobility... must be an interesting man (or woman). But what kind of lives do they lead? Are they reclusive families or outgoing personalities among the populace? Do they have political power and drive or are they more soldiers following the edicts of the Imperium? A mixture of all of the above?

 

Also, I didn't know that the non-mechanicus houses keep the knowledge of their Knights' inner workings from outsiders, I thought ALL technology was produced and sanctified by the Mechanicus?

[Lucien Eilam]

must be an interesting man (or woman)

 

Nobles are male, Knight World culture is a feudal patriarchy.

 

All Nobles have a high-born consort, it being considered vital that the Noble has sons to inherit their name and titles, and daughters to marry as consorts to other knightly families in order to cement alliances. A Noble’s consort can have considerable influence, and political intrigue offers them just about their only escape from the drudgery of courtly life. Many a Noble has risen to high power thanks to the intelligence, cunning and ruthless ambition of his consort, while the Noble himself has found his pleasures on the field of battle.

Also, I didn't know that the non-mechanicus houses keep the knowledge of their Knights' inner workings from outsiders, I thought ALL technology was produced and sanctified by the Mechanicus?

 

Where did you get that? The Sacristans are responsible for maintaining Knight armour, and they're all inducted into the Cult Mechanicus. The Knight Worlds had forgotten how to repair it until the Great Crusade reunited them with the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Lucien Eilam

[librisrouge]

An individual who grew up on a technologically advanced feudal world designated as a "Knight World", who was born into a Knight household and raised to be a pilot of a 30 foot tall war machine and trusted with centuries of family tradition, mechanical secrets and savvy, as well as an inherent nobility... must be an interesting man (or woman).

​While the vast majority of Knights will be male (see Lucien's post) it is possible that a rare few knight worlds would allow a few female nobles to mount up. It would be exceedingly uncommon though.

But what kind of lives do they lead?

Think along the same lines as knights from feudal Europe. A lot of martial training, quests and actions to prove their worth, and tournaments of various sorts, as well as the duties of ruling their fiefdom and maintaining some kind of governance. Most knights would be rulers of some degree, having a parcel of land that they're responsible for overseeing, complete with peasants.

Are they reclusive families or outgoing personalities among the populace?

This will depend on the individual house. Some might be very outgoing, motivating their populace and exuding charisma. Others will be the grim lord on the mountain.

Do they have political power and drive or are they more soldiers following the edicts of the Imperium? A mixture of all of the above?

Both, ultimately. 99% of knights are rulers of some kind. This means that they are all, to some degree, interested in advancing their houses politically, especially those knights higher up in house leadership. At the same time, their oaths of loyalty force them into combat whenever the Imperium, Mechanicus, or other body that they're oath sworn to come calling. Some knights are capable generals while others hold to the tried and true advance and stomp paradigm. Shifts from world to world.

Also, I didn't know that the non-mechanicus houses keep the knowledge of their Knights' inner workings from outsiders, I thought ALL technology was produced and sanctified by the Mechanicus?

The sacristans are trained by the mechanicus but almost exclusively in the workings of knight armor and a few other things. Their dual loyalty to knight house and mechanicus is similar to the dual loyalty of techmarines to chapter and mechanicus. It gives the knight house a degree of assurance that the sacristans will not fly off the handle and just enforce mechanicus dictates on any house they want.

Hope that helps a bit.

Edited March 14, 2015 by librisrouge

[BassWave]

Meh, the whole patriarchal society thing never made sense to me. Especially since there are many examples of women in the Imperium that have incredibly high ranks and no one makes mention on how rare that is. For example there's been an imperator titan princeps, a high magos, and quite a few kickass inquisitors, just to name a few.

 

Personally, I ignore the whole "patriarchal society" bit of fluff.

Edited March 14, 2015 by BassWave

[librisrouge]

I don't ignore it so much as I assume that in a confederation as large as the Imperium of Man there would be at least one example of it not panning out. Hell, I assume that there are matriarchal knight worlds somewhere.

[heron]

There are actually at least three female knight pilots specifically mentioned in the new Horus Heresy: Conquest book, so the patriarchal thing is not at all true.

 

"Questoris Knight Errant 'Black Saker': Claimed by Scion Bendrik in the aftermath of the assault on... Baroda, its previous claimant was slain after she declared for the loyalist cause. "(HH Conquest p 110)


"Cerastus Knight Lancer 'Absinthos': The favored armour of House Vyronii Scion Elsbet Vorr..... Though successful in laying low the mighty Raxvalian, the fate of Apinthos an Elsbet Vorr remains unknown, but it is likely her remains are entombed within the shattered hive. "(HH Conquest p 120)

"The Magera mark armor Kerberos now bears the heraldry of Aerthegn Chieftess Aedaflae Redwroth. Aedalflae's warband were one of the few to spurn Horus's attempt to dominate their house, returning to the old reaving ways of the Wraekan Dreor. "(HH Conquest p 134)

Edited March 15, 2015 by heron

[FashaTheDog]

Read Horus Heresy: Vengeful Spirit or the novella Knights of the Imperium by Graham McNeill.  Both give some nice insights into the Knight Houses.

[jeffersonian000]

The Knight Worlds use to be Agri-Worlds that feed Forge Wotkd in return for material support, including Knight-class Titans. However, the new retcon has the Knight Workds forming a third Human Empire, neither Imperium nor Mechanicus, that aligns with both via contracts and/or feudal oaths. Per the current background fluff, Knight society is based around a techno-aristocracy based on royal courts, noble families, and the vast territories they constantly fight over via Knightly duals while vying for status through jousts and tournaments.

 

While the military seems to be patriarchal, with titles and Titans passed down from father to son, the court and therefore society seems to be matriarchal. There are examples of daughters following the fathers into piloting Knights, and sons being caught up in courtly intrigue. You can accurately think of them as transtellar trading house scion with too much time on their hands, so they fight each other in pocket Titans, or run off to join the Imperial war machine for honor and glory.

 

SJ

Edited March 16, 2015 by jeffersonian000

[FashaTheDog]

I would argue less of a third human empire and more of a quasi-independent structure similar in nature to that of Space Marines.  Either way, they do hold a fair amount of autonomy which is rather noteworthy in the Imperium.

[jeffersonian000]

I would argue less of a third human empire and more of a quasi-independent structure similar in nature to that of Space Marines. Either way, they do hold a fair amount of autonomy which is rather noteworthy in the Imperium.

The Imperial Knight codex names the Knight Worlds as a third Human empire, I did not make that up.

 

SJ

[FashaTheDog]

 

I would argue less of a third human empire and more of a quasi-independent structure similar in nature to that of Space Marines. Either way, they do hold a fair amount of autonomy which is rather noteworthy in the Imperium.

The Imperial Knight codex names the Knight Worlds as a third Human empire, I did not make that up.

 

SJ

 

I missed that bit in the codex when I read through it.  Out of curiosity, where in the codex is that?

[Arkangilos]

I don't get where the "three" would come from anyways. The Mechanicus isn't a separate entity anymore, it is very much a part of the Imperium. If you even look at the chart, you see that it is a branch of the Imperium, not some allied empire. 

 

The Chart goes like this:

 

The Emperor

I

The High Lords
        I                                              I                                                     I

Adeptus Terra                        Adeptus Mechanicus                 Adeptus Ministorum

 

 

 

There are actually at least three female knight pilots specifically mentioned in the new Horus Heresy: Conquest book, so the patriarchal thing is not at all true.

 

"Questoris Knight Errant 'Black Saker': Claimed by Scion Bendrik in the aftermath of the assault on... Baroda, its previous claimant was slain after she declared for the loyalist cause. "(HH Conquest p 110)


"Cerastus Knight Lancer 'Absinthos': The favored armour of House Vyronii Scion Elsbet Vorr..... Though successful in laying low the mighty Raxvalian, the fate of Apinthos an Elsbet Vorr remains unknown, but it is likely her remains are entombed within the shattered hive. "(HH Conquest p 120)

"The Magera mark armor Kerberos now bears the heraldry of Aerthegn Chieftess Aedaflae Redwroth. Aedalflae's warband were one of the few to spurn Horus's attempt to dominate their house, returning to the old reaving ways of the Wraekan Dreor. "(HH Conquest p 134)

Just because there are examples of females does not mean it isn't still a patriarchy. History is littered with patriarchal societies with women warriors and heroes. Joan of Ark, that one lady from the British island during the Roman conquests of it (started with a B?) Butica or something like that? And some others like Queen Elizabeth. Oh, and of course Lady Brienne :p

 

Still, I'd imagine that with hundreds of worlds, it would be impossible to say that they were all that way.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Arkangilos

[Cactus]

I think the point is that the Adeptus Mechanicus is not part of the Adeptus Terra, with the Knight Worlds making a third autonomous, but co-dependent, group. Together they are the Imperium of Mankind.

[FashaTheDog]

...that one lady from the British island during the Roman conquests of it (started with a B?) Butica or something like that?

 

Boudica, the woman who lead the rebellion against the Romans and now has a cool statue? 

 

http://www.londonita.com/londrablog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/La-Regina-Boadicea.jpg

 

History and statuary aside, I did not get the impression that the Knight Worlds were united, that they are more of independent Houses operating according to their own desires, obligations, and honor in a manner more akin to Space Marine Chapters than say the more unified Munitorum.  If there is some fluff suggesting otherwise, please point me to it.

[Arkangilos]

 

...that one lady from the British island during the Roman conquests of it (started with a B?) Butica or something like that?

 

Boudica, the woman who lead the rebellion against the Romans and now has a cool statue? 

 

http://www.londonita.com/londrablog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/La-Regina-Boadicea.jpg

 

History and statuary aside, I did not get the impression that the Knight Worlds were united, that they are more of independent Houses operating according to their own desires, obligations, and honor in a manner more akin to Space Marine Chapters than say the more unified Munitorum.  If there is some fluff suggesting otherwise, please point me to it.

 

Well I don't know about Knight fluff really. My main points were to the "They aren't patriarchies because there are females" and "There are three empires of man."

 

I was just saying you can have patriarchies with female leaders sprinkled throughout. But I agree with you, that's also why I said I feel like it would be impossible to say that it was 100 percent patriarchy when there are hundreds of worlds spread out.

 

I think the point is that the Adeptus Mechanicus is not part of the Adeptus Terra, with the Knight Worlds making a third autonomous, but co-dependent, group. Together they are the Imperium of Mankind.

Neither are the Adeptus Ministorum. If it's based on one not being part of the Adeptus Terra, there would be four. The Church would be their own, the Mechanicus would be their own, the Knights, and the Adeptus Terra.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Arkangilos

[BassWave]

Yeah, knight worlds aren't really another empire. They're more at the level of space marine chapters. The houses are not really united, aside from being loyal to the Emperor. I have my codex in front of me and I can't find where it says they're a third Empire.

 

I'm disappointed how there are no modern images of knight pilots. :(

[FashaTheDog]

I'm disappointed how there are no modern images of knight pilots.

Why get out and be mortal when you can stay inside as a machine-god?

[BassWave]

 

 

I'm disappointed how there are no modern images of knight pilots.

Why get out and be mortal when you can stay inside as a machine-god?

Gotta get out to make heirs! Someone has to inherit your armor :lol:

[FashaTheDog]

 

 

I'm disappointed how there are no modern images of knight pilots.

Why get out and be mortal when you can stay inside as a machine-god?

Gotta get out to make heirs! Someone has to inherit your armor

 

Tell that to the freeblade Tellurus, who seeks only vengeance.

[heron]

 

 

...that one lady from the British island during the Roman conquests of it (started with a B?) Butica or something like that?

 

Boudica, the woman who lead the rebellion against the Romans and now has a cool statue? 

 

http://www.londonita.com/londrablog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/La-Regina-Boadicea.jpg

 

History and statuary aside, I did not get the impression that the Knight Worlds were united, that they are more of independent Houses operating according to their own desires, obligations, and honor in a manner more akin to Space Marine Chapters than say the more unified Munitorum.  If there is some fluff suggesting otherwise, please point me to it.

 

Well I don't know about Knight fluff really. My main points were to the "They aren't patriarchies because there are females" and "There are three empires of man."

 

I was just saying you can have patriarchies with female leaders sprinkled throughout. But I agree with you, that's also why I said I feel like it would be impossible to say that it was 100 percent patriarchy when there are hundreds of worlds spread out.

 

 

 

Agree on your main point, and in my internet haste I know I typed things more definitively than intended- should have said that these examples- especially of the Wraekan Dreor, who are stated to have had a female leader, showed that the situation was more complex than a standard patriarchy...

[librisrouge]

 

 

 

I'm disappointed how there are no modern images of knight pilots.

Why get out and be mortal when you can stay inside as a machine-god?

Gotta get out to make heirs! Someone has to inherit your armor

 

Tell that to the freeblade Tellurus, who seeks only vengeance.

 

Freeblade Tellurus, who seeks only vengeance, get the heck out of that armor and find a lusty lass with which to create some scions this instant!

[FashaTheDog]

 

 

 

 

I'm disappointed how there are no modern images of knight pilots.

Why get out and be mortal when you can stay inside as a machine-god?

Gotta get out to make heirs! Someone has to inherit your armor

 

Tell that to the freeblade Tellurus, who seeks only vengeance.

 

Freeblade Tellurus, who seeks only vengeance, get the heck out of that armor and find a lusty lass with which to create some scions this instant!

 

Yeah, somehow I don't see that happening anytime soon...  I won't go into why, but it is something of a spoiler for Knights of the Imperium.

[jeffersonian000]

Oddly enough (or maybe not), I kind if superimpose the BattleTech feudal system (post-Star League, pre-Clan Invasion) on to the Noble Houses of the Knight Worlds. Both settings are based of post-disporia Neo-Barbarism where forgotten high-tech is used by men-at-arms and Noble warrior to defend primarily agricultural worlds from other tech using Neo-barbarians in the far future. And Mechs, lot's of Mechs.

 

SJ

[Nuclear Fridge]

Hmm.... The Imperial Knights Codex has fluff that basically says "first-born children get to pilot the Knight suits when their sire steps down/gets killed... said first-born is male. Their consorts (female) get to do lots of political scheming and power-broking... when they're not busy producing little heirs to take over from their daddy."

 

Okay - as far as it goes. But the handful of examples of Houses given in that Codex shows a variety of cultures and world settings within the whole "my honour is my life, I must go and crusade off across the galaxy, yadda yadda yadda" framework. They may be fossilised with thousands of years of traditions and solemn rituals that don't make much sense anymore, but there are differences. Having a female Knight - say, Lady Phelanie of House Karrak, riding the Knight-Paladin Oberon - doesn't strike me as that much of a stretch... especially if she's the first-born of a noble line.

 

I guess the bottom line is this - what difference does it make, really? As if the Holy Inquisition is going to send some robed thugs around from the Officio Backgroundius to chastise you for not cleaving to the exact word and letter of the published fluff from GW? So the pilot of your Imperial Knight is a woman! Unless you built the model so that you can open the crew hatch, who's to argue that you're in the wrong?

[CommodusXIII]

I guess the bottom line is this - what difference does it make, really? As if the Holy Inquisition is going to send some robed thugs around from the Officio Backgroundius to chastise you for not cleaving to the exact word and letter of the published fluff from GW? So the pilot of your Imperial Knight is a woman! Unless you built the model so that you can open the crew hatch, who's to argue that you're in the wrong?

 

This is my take on it as well.  It's all fine and good to research and enjoy established fluff.  However, if you're creating your own Imperial Knight Household, you're free to write it however you'd like.  Just as with Space Marines - it's generally good to respect the background for established Chapters, but if you're making your own you can do anything.

 

For what it's worth, I've tossed the "Bretonians in Space" motif out the window and made my Household much more in line with the Collegia Titanicus.  Who's to say that that's any more or less valid than any other approach?

Edited April 1, 2015 by CommodusXIII