Jolemai Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I tend to feel the same way, especially when the three Veterans take Melta Bombs. Deschenus, you tend to do a lot of theoryhammer but rarely post reports. If I may, have you tried your Command Squad (and your other theories) out yet? It's just a shame that the meltagun and flamer combination is no longer viable... I haven't tried out the Command Squad yet. Brand new baby has killed my gaming time. Also, melta/flamer is still viable. 1. trade chainsword for melta 2. trade pistol for chainsword 3. trade new chainsword for flamer. Circuitous but legal. Congratulations! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3979307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 In my view Captains and command squads (not necessarily combined) work in small games Captains aren't necessary to include Command Squads Once you get past that small game boundary, they are hopelessly outclassed by Chapter Masters and honour guards I don't agree at all with that statement. Honour Guards suffer from the same problems Sanguinary Guard do, but on top of that, are stuck moving around on foot and can't even buy anti-tank weapons. Command squads are a unique set of capabilities, but VVs, StGs, SaGs and DC offer better unique capabilities. Even bog standard assault squads or tactical squads do. Again, don't agree whatsoever. DC and Tacticals are equal, but the rest I consider all inferior. 2x5 Assault Marines with 4 meltaguns is 210 points. 25 points isn't really a significant difference. You can't even buy two Marines for that. You can almost buy two lightning claws, or three meltabombs and 2 flamers, or a powerfist. Or if you stick to the tank hunter role only and drop the storm shields, it's enough to buy a MM attack bike. For that you have twice as many targets, twice as many wounds, and more melta (i.e. the whole point of buying them in the first place) capable of shooting at two different units. What you give up makes little or no difference to the job you're buying a melta squad to do. What good is that power sword to a squad of tank-hunters? Again, thinking that the CS is purely a tank-hunting unit is the mistake. They are a flexible unit able to carry out multiple tasks. A 5 man Marine squad can't afford to have a mixed role. Disagree. Having specialised combat squads makes it that much easier for your opponent to remove the key threats to his army. Multipurpose squads aren't as efficient but they make your battleplan more flexible and far less prone to disruption. The mandatory close combat specialist really pigeonholes them for assault, in my opinion. That's the reason I don't personnaly like Plasma command squads. But with melta, you get to use it (pop a transport with meltas, assault the contents. Comments in red. Congratulations! Thanks :) She's adorable! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3979344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The captain suffers from the same problem, he's very much a second echelon guy, as is a command squad. Let's look at it this way. Your melta command squad pops a transport and assaults the contents. What's the contents? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3981139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The captain suffers from the same problem, he's very much a second echelon guy, as is a command squad. If you meant second rate, I would fully agree on the Captain, and would violently disagree on the CS. Your melta command squad pops a transport and assaults the contents. What's the contents? It doesn't really matter. That's the beauty of it. If it's big and scary, the stormshields + FNP will allow the squad to tie it up for a bit. If it's a more run of the mill squad, the PW + FC + RT will allow the squad to make a good dent in it. Comments in red. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3981492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Well, if you are getting it to work, I tip my hat to you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3981539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Well, if you are getting it to work, I tip my hat to you You've tried it and it hasn't been working for you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3981594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I just can't envision a case of it working, but I shall give it a go, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3981787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 It can do wonders against wave serpent spam, popping the transport and murdering the dire avengers that are inside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3981836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Is the champ a Vet? Can I give him a storm shield and a hammer? Captain Terminator Armour Vitae Dual Claws - 150 Command Squad Champion, Storm Shield, Hammer Novitiate 3 Vets, 3 Meltas Pod - 205 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3982720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Is the champ a Vet? Can I give him a storm shield and a hammer? Unfortunately you cannot give the champ or the apothecary any upgrades. I really wish we could, it would make the champ an actual decent choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3982926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 As noted, champ can't take gear. Dom, if you're not going to put stormshields on the vets, I don't think I'd bother with a CS then; just stick with ASM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3982930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 As noted, champ can't take gear. Dom, if you're not going to put stormshields on the vets, I don't think I'd bother with a CS then; just stick with ASM. Pretty much this, the access to SS coupled with free FNP is what makes these guys great Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3982962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I so wish the Command squad could add more people to the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3982975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I so wish the Command squad could add more people to the squad. QFT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3983006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 In that case, I think I'll try something similar with the van and the stern, see what I can come up with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3983189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I've included a squad with 3 melta and 2 storm shields in pod list I'll be running at a tourney in a few weeks. They certainly seem good value especially if you're conferring the fnp to ICs in the unit. The stormshields and fnp will 'hopefully' extend Meph's survivability further than his previous ASM escort did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3986077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I ran a liby lv1 in a CS sq, JP ,3 vets had SS and 1 meltagun and 2 power lances. This pass weekend , ran them aggressivly had good turn out. With 3 power weapons plus the force axe I was able to take out small threats, they can get tar pitted if you charge them at something stupid. The FC bounce with lances works out well, the drop in Ap hurts when up agsint MEq. The Champ will do well agsint most units your fighting agsint, unless u act s fool at send them at some nasty CC sq, than he will struggle and be forced the rely on boost from Libby with quicking, which if you gamble on the odds he can be turned in min beat stick +d3 A and I with FC and RT boost is great when it goes off not so much when it fails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304637-command-squads/page/2/#findComment-3986316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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