JSlade Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 So I had two games at 2k. Orks then IG. I ran Dante, a 9x SG, 8x DC, 2 10xTACs (in DP), 10x RAS w/ SP, and Storm Raven and Fire Raptor. I got ran over both times. This is the first time I've really played the 7th E. I havent really had an army since the old Armageddon book. Whatever edition that was. And, well.. I was surprised. Battle 1, vs. Orks (speed freaks) It was a maelstrom mission. I went first, dropped a DP with TACs on the left flank of the board, way out infront of my force, to create a line to blow up some trucks, and prevent the movement of the Ork biker squad. All of this worked, however I lost the whole squad. Orks can move far, and fast. So I never got to charge. They dictated the pace, kept me tied up, and just ground me down. Dante did a good job against a squad of nobz in mega armor, and his Weird boy was certainly the MVP. But by never getting to actually charge, and having to react all the time, I was done for. A fire raptor though, can rain hell all over everything. I was worried that by dumping my Baal pred for aerial fire support, I would be screwed, but, no. Missiles, Avenger, turret, turret. With such little armor? It was flying death. Battle 2, vs IG. Well, Shot to hell just trying to get to a flank. I massed on one flank, had to get across no man's land, to roll up a side. Well, 2 turns getting across, and getting shot to hell, I had about 1/3rd of my force finally get there. And, his anti air did a good job messing up my air support. I probably should have deep striked my DC/SG in the rear? I thought "dont deep strike assault units" was a hard rule. Well, running them through the open, was a bad idea. Ive got a LR:C, Razor, Vindicator, and Baal Pred. So maybe I could use them, as mobile cover? I don't know. Mildly disappointing Overall. But its a great group of friends, and I'm learning 7th. I've got a lot of stuff put together, and it seems, like what i've built, isn't helpful for winning. I could build, 2 or 3, 5x RAS guys in drop pods with melta guns. And the requisite grav bikers. But I hate bikes, and I play mostly horde orks. so, I dunno. Looks like I'm going to be bound to lose, a lot. hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 If your playing horde orks did you kit out your tac for job? heavy flamer, flamer, x2 haf will make orks cry, and they will bbq guard just the same, they way your posted what you ran is hard to tell, as non of special option are listed so hard to offer some insight and suggestions. I would take fire raptor over the baal any day. Its my favorite flyer and rarely disappoints unless i am up against a Tau interceptor list. the guard can run a good amount of AA. DS assault units is not 100% wrong, sometimes DS for facing 1 turn of shooting is better than jump them across the board and taking 2 turns of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Also...practice makes perfect. I just recently changed to playing BAs, and trying out new lists and the varied wargear and tactics is something that cannot occur overnight. Track your progress, think critically, and look to improve. Vs orks, everyone can have a tough time! They will always outnumber you, and number have a quality of their own. How many points was the Raptor? What detachments were you running? You can peak over at my blog for what I've been doing and learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 With 2 pods, and 2 flyers, youre looking at 600pts at least of your army that does not show up until T2. In T1, you have 1300pts vs their 2000. Of course you get creamed. If your opponent goes first, you have fewer than 30 T4 models on the table T1. My 1000pt armies have that many ;) Either get a third pod, so you get 2 landing on T1, or drop one pod. I'd also lose the storm raven unless youre transporting things in it. It seems like you put the tacticals in the middle of nowhere vs the orks? Use them more aggressively. arm tacs in pods with 4 flame weapons, complement them with 4 melta assault squads in pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Either get a third pod, so you get 2 landing on T1, or drop one pod. I'd also lose the storm raven unless youre transporting things in it. I'd agree about adding a pod (perhaps a Meltacide unit) or dropping one in place of a Rhino, but I would disagree with dropping the Storm Raven, empty or otherwise. I usually run my Storm Raven empty (or occasionally with some cheap c/c scouts for last minute Skys of Fury objective scoring) and it is consistantly one of my most valuable assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSlade Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Thanks for the advice. I see your point. But I'm not sure what to replace it with? It seems fire power is my problem. And here I go and do a dumb thing. Dante, mephiston, sp w/ valors edge and jp. 10x TAC with Flamers. 10x tac with Flamers. (DP) 5x sang guard w/ 2x power fists and an axe and inferno pistol 5x DC w/ power fist, hammer, powersword, inferno pistol 10x ras, with power weapon and flamer and melta 5x RAS in pod with meltas, and gun slinger melta Sgt 5x ras in pod with meltas, and gun slinger melta sgt Fire raptor I'm sure the points for Mephiston could go to something wiser. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Drop Mephy and the 10 RAS. Ditch valour's edge. Ditch the fist, sword and pistol from the DC. Fill out the Sanguinary Guard to 10, have Dante and the priest with them. Give the priest the veritas vitae and make him warlord. Add a Sicaran, a pod for the other tac squad and spend the remainder on a couple more inferno pistols for the SG, and / or extra bodies in the DC, with jump packs. An aggressive force, but balanced. The extra roll on the strategic table gives you a better chance of getting move through cover and stealth, more so when you run as a CAD. Having the other tacs also in a pod gives you more options vs horde armies. The Sicaran is effective vs armour and hordes. Personally I always start my jump units on the board (SG and DC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDice0809 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Especially against the orks are you positive drop pod tacticals with flamers are the way to go? You have to get right in charge range, and everyone ork horde player I have played runs at LEAST two thirty strong heavy armor pain boy mobs. You will not do enough damage on the drop- or overwatch- to stop the mob from slaughtering you on the charge next turn. Two squads on one mob maybe. But then the second moves in untouched. Or the third.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Ork mobs just arent that good any more... get 3-4 flame weapons on them or a frag cannon/flamer furioso and they melt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I am inclined to agree. Orks will just eat a lone tactical squad without even pausing to belch. Against a horde, your pod squads will be suicide squads unless you are running 5+ pods. Fine if you want a couple of meltacide assault squads to nuke Battle Wagons so the contents have to walk but not so great for a Tactical squad. Against hordes, you may be better off with Rhinos and advance using them to screen the Jump Squads. Fire the flamer/heavy flamer from the vision ports and force the orks to crack the shell to get at the nuts inside . Once you are in position, disembark, double-tap your bolters and then charge your DC/SG into whatever is left. If you feed your squads a couple at a time to an Ork horde, he will just take you apart piecemeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Drop Mephy and the 10 RAS. Ditch valour's edge. Ditch the fist, sword and pistol from the DC. Fill out the Sanguinary Guard to 10, have Dante and the priest with them. Give the priest the veritas vitae and make him warlord. If the Priest is your Warlord, I think you cannot use Dante's Descent of Angels. Not a problem if you are running him as a beatstick but worth bearing in mind. I agree with not over-toolling the DC but I like to keep an inferno pistol or two in there so they can pop transports and then charge the infantry inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Deathwind lunches makes them cry (even 3 in 1st wave) meltas pop the truck than scream "PIE PLATE TIME B****!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Either get a third pod, so you get 2 landing on T1, or drop one pod. I'd also lose the storm raven unless youre transporting things in it. I'd agree about adding a pod (perhaps a Meltacide unit) or dropping one in place of a Rhino, but I would disagree with dropping the Storm Raven, empty or otherwise. I usually run my Storm Raven empty (or occasionally with some cheap c/c scouts for last minute Skys of Fury objective scoring) and it is consistantly one of my most valuable assets. If the raven was the only flyer, I would agree. However the fire raptor vastly outclasses the storm raven in the role as a gun ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Either get a third pod, so you get 2 landing on T1, or drop one pod. I'd also lose the storm raven unless youre transporting things in it. I'd agree about adding a pod (perhaps a Meltacide unit) or dropping one in place of a Rhino, but I would disagree with dropping the Storm Raven, empty or otherwise. I usually run my Storm Raven empty (or occasionally with some cheap c/c scouts for last minute Skys of Fury objective scoring) and it is consistantly one of my most valuable assets. If the raven was the only flyer, I would agree. However the fire raptor vastly outclasses the storm raven in the role as a gun ship. I always forget that some groups play with Forgeworld gear. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Some groups play without it?????? Erg...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Some groups play without it?????? Erg...... Our group has only recently started permitting it. I think if anyone abused it then it would get dropped again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've been unimpressed by bikes so far, assault pods though are great, the flamer pod is cheap and pretty damn effective at 115 points for four templates. Made a guard squad run then decimated another one that tried to counter charge its 4 wall of deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Either get a third pod, so you get 2 landing on T1, or drop one pod. I'd also lose the storm raven unless youre transporting things in it. I'd agree about adding a pod (perhaps a Meltacide unit) or dropping one in place of a Rhino, but I would disagree with dropping the Storm Raven, empty or otherwise. I usually run my Storm Raven empty (or occasionally with some cheap c/c scouts for last minute Skys of Fury objective scoring) and it is consistantly one of my most valuable assets. If the raven was the only flyer, I would agree. However the fire raptor vastly outclasses the storm raven in the role as a gun ship. I always forget that some groups play with Forgeworld gear. Meh. It was in the army list at the start. Some groups play without it?????? Erg...... Our group has only recently started permitting it. I think if anyone abused it then it would get dropped again. I hope that rule applies to everything, like imperial knights, and deathstars etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 What are you running on the bikes? I am planning to kit mine out with Grav/combi-grav but that is slightly situational if you cannot find enemies with decent armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I always forget that some groups play with Forgeworld gear. Some groups play without it?????? Erg...... Our group has only recently started permitting it. I think if anyone abused it then it would get dropped again. I hope that rule applies to everything, like imperial knights, and deathstars etc. Nope. Codex is king. FW for a long time was with opponent's consent only. To be fair, with some of the wacky rules FW have come out with, I can see why a lot of players do not consider it official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I always forget that some groups play with Forgeworld gear. Some groups play without it?????? Erg...... Our group has only recently started permitting it. I think if anyone abused it then it would get dropped again. I hope that rule applies to everything, like imperial knights, and deathstars etc. Nope. Codex is king. FW for a long time was with opponent's consent only. To be fair, with some of the wacky rules FW have come out with, I can see why a lot of players do not consider it official. ^This. If its in an Imperial Armoury book, then I don't often see it. Its not a rule in my game group as such, its more that no one has any Imperial Armoury books, so we tend to stick the codex rules. I wouldnt refuse to play anyone with forgeworld stuff, as long as they had the book with them so I could have a snoop at the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 We allow 40K approved forgeworld units for FLGS tournaments, and every thing else is between you and your opponent for friendly games. I'm finding in my local scene more and more upgrades to spamming armor 3 or better, LOWs or MCs, and lots of AP3-AP1 weapons. The struggles are getting tougher every week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I have to Agree DWML on Pods is the Hordes Downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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