Close combat NDK

[Bionicman]

So i was thinking about combat roles and point costs...again.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but by now most of us own at least three dread knights and those knights are armed to the teeth, sporting like always the heavy psycannon (which is a good weapon) and some secondary weapon. Why? Sure the knight is jack of all trades and it is good to have all possibilities and so on but isn't the first rule not to overdo equipment and buy more bodies instead, especially if most units want to be in close combat anyway?

 

A melee orientated knight with teleporter and hammer / sword is still a big distraction and cost ~2/3 of the standard (?) build with full loadout. He can support terminators or other elements of the NSF, whereas the ranged weapon potential is wasted on such a unit, being in melee from turn 2 on.

[Brom MKIV]

Your correct IMO. The issue from a 'pure' GK perspective is that the pts saved do not really equate to more units in this codex. Thats why players feel they are often better off taking the gun than not. That and the very real pressure for the knights to carry the entire army via mobility, firepower and combat. 

 

That said I feel gunless knights can have their place. This approach at least in theory spreads the threats around to make target priority harder (guns vs MC.. instead of gunboat MC public enemy #1).

 

What it doesn't do unfortunately is contribute to an alpha strike/shunt punch. 

 

Now allies otoh can really take the pressure off of dreadknights to be the heavy lifters due to better specialized weaponry, which frees the knights up to specialize in combat and even perform counter assault (wuztsat right). The savings can actually even pay for a good chunk of the allied detachment too since their unit choices are usually significantly cheaper than even our bare pagk's, or slightly higher investment but strictly better (pagk's vs sentinels of terra las devs). 

 

Anyway I feel bare knights are better with allies and more tooled up knights are better in GKs.. due mostly to the need for knights to carry the army.

[jeffersonian000]

Back in 5th, and DK sans range weapons was a good alternative, being cheap yet still effective. However, 7th is anti-CC with random charge distance, lending itself to range over CC. Not taking at least one Heavy range weapon is almost a terminally bad choice, while taking two is too reasonable to ignore.

 

As to which CC weapon, the Fists are still fine in my opinion, while the Hammer's Concussion has great utility versus things Force can't kill. The Great Sword is ... great, but not as great as it use to be, as it is now simply Master Crafted for almost free. I like to pair up a Hammer with a Psilencer, and a Sword with an Incinerator, on my two "stock" DKs (Stock = PT + H Psycannon). Makes it easy to tell them apart while openning up options during play.

 

SJ

[Captain Coolpants]

Well although you're correct. And not giving 2 dreadknights guns could pretty much buy a third bare bones knight that could just deepstrike and hopefully get into combat, it's just not worth it. A relentless heavy 6/large blast psycannon is simply too handy to not have, and the psylencers amount of shots almost make up for the loss of a 5 man terminator squad (which you probably would have had if you didn't have the dreadknight) and the incinerator.... Well we all know just how handy that purification device is.

 

Plus our army has no real shooting, and unfortunately, the dreadknight is our only 'gun boat' of sorts, it just also so happens to be able to bitch slap every filthy heretic on the table. (which is the pinnacle of imbalance within any codex)

 

But for small elite armies like ours, not taking upgrades on things, but instead adding a few troops usually isn't worth it because the amount of extra bodies you get are still less effective than giving them toys.

 

Tis why last edition most of us auto included psybolt/psyflame ammo and +2 initiative helberds without even thinking about it..... Maaan I miss my psy ammo and hero like initiative...

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Back in 5th, and DK sans range weapons was a good alternative, being cheap yet still effective.

 

Totally.

 

I used to run two 130 bare bones NDK back in 5th.

 

Worked wonders.

[jeffersonian000]

 

Back in 5th, and DK sans range weapons was a good alternative, being cheap yet still effective.

Totally.

 

I used to run two 130 bare bones NDK back in 5th.

 

Worked wonders.

I remember. You use to just run them, then charge them, and get them stuck in ASAP. Too bad that's no longer a valid option in 7th.

 

SJ

[Deamon Wolf]

I run an uber small list of Dragio , Libby ( Lvl 2 ) 10 termis 5 paladins and 2 tooled up knights

 

it over powers my opponents ( mostly nids , angels , necrons, Deathwing ) in turns 1 and 2 especially if i have trun 1 , the main thing that dose this are the 2 tooled up NDKs ( Sword Heavy Psycannon Heavy Incinerator PT)  with out them jumping around the board being the uber threat magnets they are the rest of my force would be just wiped out , in the process of Being the uber threat magnest they deal out usually one mega punch then die horribly to gun fire

but its that mega punch that i need

 

Grey Knights dont have the numbers for a mega punch like the one the NDK can give out

[Reclusiarch Darius]

No. The utility the heavy psycannon and heavy incinerator/gatling psilencer gives you CANNOT be replicated anywhere else for the same cost. No one else can Shunt and shoot like a DK. Even Terminators have less firepower. Interceptors aren't Relentless and can only take a quarter of the firepower at best. 

 

Dropping the guns doesn't even get you a third DK. It might get you a combat squad in PA, but not a combat squad of TDA (5pts or so short). 

 

Grey Knights simply lack options. No one else in our codex brings the mixture of firepower, threat range/mobility, and melee ability that a DK does. Not even if you separate out each of those three things (only Interceptors are as fast, and they're far less durable). The DK is the best unit in the codex, and that's just how things are.