IF Helmet Colours

[Waizer]

I know, before I get started, that people will say, "they're your models so just paint them how you like"

The thing is, I would like to paint them as accurately as possible, so without this info I can't do that :)

 

Now that that's out of the way, I have been looking through the HH books and online on forums, painting blogs and I am struggling to find a definitive answer to the question of how IF paint their helms.

 

It seems pretty conclusive that standard tacs have just plain yellow helms, but in HH:3 at about page 63 there is a picture of a few helmet markings and on it there are 2-3 different sgt helms and no colour is used in all 3 helms.

 

As an example there is 1 that is red with a white stripe and is called a "veteran sergeant" and then another helm with just a red stripe that is also called a "veteran sergeant" which makes no sense to me.

 

I would like to know what are the 30k Imperial Fist colours of:

veteran tactical marines,

veteran tactical sgt's,

tactical sgt's,

and if possible any other colours used by other squads (such as heavy support ect).

 

Thanks

[Emperor's Furor]

In the HH article for them there's a list of their helmet colour variations.

 

Edit: Page 63

 

Veteran Sgt has red helm with white line down the centre of it or just a yellow helm with red line. Heavy support sergeant has black helm with white line down centre of it, normal heavy support legionary has a black line down it.

[Waizer]

Ah so the 2 different veteran sgt helms on pg63 were there to show that the same rank can be displayed different ways as of that period in time.

 

Makes more sense to me now, as for veterans would they have white stripes or full white helms do you know?

[Slips]

Well, as of right now, the Veteran colour for the Imperial Fists seems to be Black (Templar Brethren are a good example as is the Assault Legionary in Extermination).

[Daemon2027]

The thing with the heresy is that there are so many differnt companies within each legion who have their own heraldry, and history, and variations, so one company may have a a red stripe for a veteran sgt, and another company will have an all red helm, so if there is two listed for veteran sgt they are both valid.

[Spinsanity]

As was illustrated in Know no Fear, there never really was a reason to denote rank trough helmet color or other markings; marines use advanced comms systems which automatically identify anyone by name and rank and thus render such ranking useless (and, to a point, counter productive, if we consider what happened to american leadership during the Vietnam war; providing your enemy a way of identifying your sergeants can be detrimental).

[DimDim]

Here you go, direct from forgeworld (id assume normal vets wear regular helms or black):

*EDIT* Put it in a spoiler in order to save space

[1ncarnadine]

As was illustrated in Know no Fear, there never really was a reason to denote rank trough helmet color or other markings; marines use advanced comms systems which automatically identify anyone by name and rank and thus render such ranking useless (and, to a point, counter productive, if we consider what happened to american leadership during the Vietnam war; providing your enemy a way of identifying your sergeants can be detrimental).

I think that's primarily for the Ultramarines though, and again it might vary company to company. I'm pretty sure even without helmet markings though, the guy covered in inlaid marble work and like 10 golden eagles is usually pretty obviously the commander anyway.

I know, before I get started, that people will say, "they're your models so just paint them how you like"

The thing is, I would like to paint them as accurately as possible, so without this info I can't do that

Thanks

Well, as noted already "as accurately as possible" is often to "paint them how you like." Due to the nature of the Fists as a Legion that embraces the ideals of the Crusade, they frequently adopt customs and traditions from worlds they bring to compliance and recruit from, so a lot of their Chapters might be pretty different. Even the official FW page on the markings that DimDim linked shows two separate schemes for the same rank (Veteran Sergeant). Those FW markings aren't even necessarily a complete list (assault/breacher markings could be different for example), but they're definitely a good place to start :)

[Emperor's Furor]

I'd say stick to the variation you like and run with it. I'm not sure what my sergeants are going to have either, as I'm doing crusade era I'm thinking of doing it simple and just have the red line running down the helm.

[Slips]

I'm still waiting for someone to do the Star Patterns from the peeps who were recruited in that one extract in Extermination (can't remember it).

 

I might do a Captain that way...

[Emperor's Furor]

I'm still waiting for someone to do the Star Patterns from the peeps who were recruited in that one extract in Extermination (can't remember it).

 

I might do a Captain that way...

I was thinking of doing them, I've been looking at different drawings of stars and trying to arrange the pattern so that it looks nice but is also easily freehanded. I've yet to decide what the focus of my fists are though, I have a command squad and now I'm thinking of what troops will make up the bulk of my force.

 

For example I was considering this shape, but having three of them, one bigger to the upper left and two smaller, one to the right and one down to the right.

 

 

http://talshaked.com/drawings_images/open_star.png

 

 

[Slips]

I'm waiting for a Knights Hospitalier Chapter / IF Successor. 

APOTHECARIES!!!!!!!!!!! screw the Red Scorpions

 

 

I'm dreadfully afraid of DIYing >_>

 

I have an idea about execution on a Blank Shoulder Pad or something..white for stars pale gray for the constellation lines kinda like how peeps do NL lightning with blue..

[Emperor's Furor]

Something like this is what I was thinking of

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/2d2gb4g.jpg

[Slips]

Hmm thatd be hard to accomplish at such a small scale; vehicles like Rhinos and Land Raiders should be easy enough.

[DuskRaider]

Is this to represent that even in the far future, the Imperium of Man still uses Pittsburgh steel?

[Emperor's Furor]

Is this to represent that even in the far future, the Imperium of Man still uses Pittsburgh steel?

Haha, didn't notice the resemblance, oh well it was just an idea, I'll think on it some more.

[Waizer]

Cheers for all the replies fellas, has made things a little clearer for me.

 

Will probably go the way of simple since I am planning a mostly mkii and mkiii army (so only just pre-heresy) so a simple red stripe for sgt's and no other real distinction between units.

 

Also makes things easier since a tac squad can be made into a vet tac squad simply by me saying so ;)

[Krikey]

I think that's a good plan -- a simple red stripe is what I use for mine.

 

About the star pattern ... FW has for some reason given a similar star to the new Iron Warrior chest upgrades: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IRON_WARRIORS_LEGION_MKII_TORSOS.html

 

I'm not sure it matters, but if the four-pointed star is going to be an icon representative of an Imperial Fists antagonist, it might provoke comment. I personally would use it if I liked it, though, especially if it has IF significance.

 

Sorry for prolonging the tangent.

 

Edit: Just saw your post about the chest pieces in the Scyllax thread, Slipstream. Since you're obviously aware of the IW star, gnore my comments above.

 

~K

[Slips]

Yeah, I made the connection; probably gonna get a set or two on that basis alone :P

 

On the topic of Helmet Colors and, more generally, company colors, just look at the Imperial Fists successors. All their heraldry and markings can be used as Campaign Badges, Company Captain / Chapter Master / Battalion Commander Heraldry, Honor Markings, Veteran Honors (for that company) etc.

 

For positions of command, I'd stick with Red/Black/White as colors. Have the red stick to being the Sarge color so that permits you to have some variety in there while not breaking away from 'established' color conventions (as far as we've seen) for HH Imperial Fists.