The Nookie Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hey Guys! I am new to the forum, I love the horus heresy, and I love the World Eaters. I have sold my last army and am now collecting the start of a WE army. I am use to 40K but am new to 30K, I have all the books but am having trouble figuring out an approach to take, and what is good and what is bad. So if you guys have any suggestions to help me get started and work towards a solid close quarters World Eater army list it would be truly appreciated! Thanks in advance! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dallo Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 First off, welcome to the heresy, The Nookie. What points limit are you looking to play at? General advice: for troops, you'll probably want big beefy tactical units, with all the close combat trimmings. You can either run them with bolters and combat weapons (true grit) or just with combat weapons ( despoilers). You'll want to take advantage of the free chain axes. They're all but useless against another legion, but will murder SA, Mechanicum and most 40k xenos armies. Consider a spartan or six to get your marines safely to combat. You'll want a flare shield to make it all but unkillable. Cc contempors are an option, as are terminators of all stripes. You'll want some way of tank busting, so either invest in some long ranged firepower, or lots of chain fists, powerfists and melta bombs. Rhinos are of questionable value as you can't assault from them, but they get you close to the enemy quickly. A deredo for anti air isn't a bad shout. Chaplains will increase your cc punch, and fill one of your HQ slots. If you want close quarters, you could consider a flamer/ heavy flamer armed support /heavy squad. It's not combat, per se, but it will rack up the wounds, and burning people is one of the three things a good world eater should be about. Hope this helps. Dallo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3983818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Hey Dallo! Thank you so much for the info it really helps! I was thinking about maybe 1500 - 1850 points moving towards a close combat idea after the WE so probably a lot of despoilers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3983838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBOcaster Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Hey Nookie welcome the to Age of Darkness you traitorous scum. I like to think that the best part about 30k is that there are no optimal builds or crazy competitive list out there that you see everyone bring. Its about playing what you think looks great on the table and playing large scale games with those beautifully painted models. Now that being said there are units that you will see in almost most armies, for example the Sicarian is used by a great many of us here, also the Whirlwind Scorpius is ranked as a very good heavy support, along with a the Dakka Predator squadron. Thud'guns are considered very useful as well. Throughout the forums here you will find a great deal of people going back and forth on whats good and whats not. Having the books I'm sure you have already read over the RoW for your army, many people try to gear their unit selection towards their RoW in order to have synergy with it. As I play IH I have a great deal of armor with supporting Infantry, and IDF support both, I have no fliers and No Fast Attack (but Jet Bikes in my sights). So I would say start there Look at your army buffs and debuffs, and the RoW you want to deploy and build units from there. For example WE are very Melee and assault oriented, so taking assault marines over tactical marines might be a good idea and with Berserker Assault you would need at least three, so there's a starting point. Also being an assault army I don't think you would want breachers as they only have one attack and cant get any others with their shields so they are out of the question. Just my opinion I'm sure other people who play WE would be better suited to suggest units to you. Above all have fun, win, lose, draw have fun. In my personal experience with 40k players some get upset about a lose or draw, but with 30k I have only ever ended a game where both parties look as each other and say "Man that was amazing!" GLHF Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3983930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Hi nookie! I hope you don't mind but Im going to piggyback in here as I am in a similar situation....just about to embark on a 30k WE adventure and don't know squat! I do however know I must have Khârn with a load of red butchers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Dallo did a good job explaining the basics of what any 30k army will be looking at. As a former traitor myself (funny I say that as a Dark Angel ;)) I'd definitely recommend a Spartan assault tank in your list and that you take the Berzerker rite of war. The spartan is mini lord of war and pumps out 4 twin linked lascannon shots, which is nothing to sniff at considering WE lists are infantry oriented. I'll tell you right now to make a list for 2000 points because that's what most game levels are played at. It's easy that way to see what you'll need and just take things out for lower lists. Rite of wars are very hard to make for sub 2000 lists, but don't be discouraged from doing so. Here's what I'd take 3 20 man despoiler squads with vexillas and an upgraded sgt w/artificer armor/power axe/melta bomb 3 apothecaries (AA if you can spare the points) Spartan Assault tank w/flare shield 5 butchers or equivalent in regular terminators (who are actually quite good). If you can get closer to 10 regular terminators, do it. Khârn, an equivelant praetor is good if you want to do fluff for your guys, but other than that, Khârn really helps the list Deredeo dread with Anvillus autocannons and Aiolos missile launcher Squad of bikes or Jetbikes with some form of melta weaponry or melta bombs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Guys, just want to say thank you so much for the help!!! means a lot, I am definitely going to start looking where you guys have started pointing me! Depthcharge I definitely like that idea and I will start looking into models for it. I love Khan, thanks to Betrayer, and will definitely take him! Side note: Are storm eagles any good? or Assault marines? Finally with the apothecary whats the AA mean? Thanks again! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 AA - Artificer Armour. Assault Marines are somewhat pricey, for the same price as a base squad of 10 assault, you can get 20 tactical with Fury of the Legion. Despoilers are basically Tacticals who traded their Bolter for a Close Combat Weapon like a Chainsword(WE can choose Chainaxe) etc. (unless I am mistaken??). I like the versatility of having both Bolter and 'extra' CCW's, so you shoot at range and be good in CC :) Really depends on your points and list requirements I guess etc. Don't forget to check the backlog of historical posts on this forum, there's a lot of great info there to help out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hey Guys, just a quick question, might be silly but how do the "Rites of War" work? Still a little confused with how a few things work. Thanks again! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm no expert here, but I'll give it a stab for you. Any HQ choice who has 'Master of the Legion' (or other rules that might supersede it) can gain access to the Rites of War. They are a bit like chapter tactics, they give your list the benefits as written in the rule book. They can define your list - ie the Pride of the Legion list for example alters what troop choices are compulsory. There's a recent post regarding warnings for Rules Phishing, so be warned. If you have the rulebook and still don't understand, which bit specifically are you having difficulty with ? *edit minor word edit* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Storm eagles are still pretty good, but lacking a little luster now that Mortis "Kheresnaught" dreads and Deredeos are everywhere. You'll also have to contend with reserves and not seeing a charge until turn 3 with those guys at the earliest out of the storm eagle. I'd recommend a fire raptor if you want to completely annihilate your enemy, but make sure to kill all the anti air before it comes on the board. Rites of war give you bonuses for a few restrictions. You'll need an HQ with the special rule "Master of the Legion", who at the moment are praetors, a delegatus, Khârn, and primarchs. The restriction for the Berzerker rite of war (idk which one you want but this one is the bestestist) is that you need a minimum of 3 compulsory troops choices (tactical, assault, and/or breacher) and you may only take one additional (2 HQ choices total) which cannot be a librarian. You get an additional buff in the form of hatred outside your deployment zone (which, let's be honest, you will be) and you get rerolls of 1s to run and reroll failed pinning checks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I swear I am not rules phishing, I do not know how to prove that, but I'll make sure I read the post. But like with Book 2 page 215 where it discusses "berserker assault," I am just trying to figure out when that can come into affect? Like I understand the limitations as the negative side but seems like i am missing something, seems too cool to just be able to declare at the start of the game. I have not fully read through the books so if I am asking the wrong type of questions I do apologize and will stop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I swear I am not rules phishing, I do not know how to prove that, but I'll make sure I read the post. But like with Book 2 page 215 where it discusses "berserker assault," I am just trying to figure out when that can come into affect? Like I understand the limitations as the negative side but seems like i am missing something, seems too cool to just be able to declare at the start of the game. I have not fully read through the books so if I am asking the wrong type of questions I do apologize and will stop.You do declare it (and have it written in your list for good sportsmanship) as long as you have the proper requirements. It's automatically in place, just notify your opponent that you're running it and the worst they can say is they won't play a game, but it's nowhere near broken and they'd miss a chance to play a cool fluffy army. Edit: write up a list for us, and we can help you walk through it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Awesome thanks depth! I'll get started on a list and post and see what you guys think! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 It happens all the time. When you make your list, you choose if you want a Rite of War provided you have an eligible model for it. To select each Rite of War, on top of that, you must meet all modifications to the Force Organization Chart listed or Army Composition requirements listed within each Rite of War. You don't tend to declare it at the start of battle, it's something that you change your forces design with. It either allows you to change up how to play the game (in the event of some Rites of War like Orbital Assault,Decapitation Strike or Maru Skara, say), change how your army is composed (Pride of the Legion, Coils of the Hydra or the Stone Gauntlet for example), or simply just make your chosen army and signature playstyle more effective (Hammer of Olympia, Covenant of Fire, Terror Assault or Berserker Assault) for example. For Berserker Assault, provided you match its requisites when building the force, you get the benefits for the duration of the battle with it. It's quite easy to understand, just check out the Master of the Legion rule from Book 1/LACAL (Red books). I'd advise picking up the red books too; they have some useful stealth errata included. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hey guys, after looking more into suggestions made here I have come to love Depthcharge's suggestions a lot for the fluffy army so far I'm seeing this: World Eater Traitor (Doom of the World Eaters legion) (Berserker Assault) Khârn (190) - Gorechild 5 Red Butchers (285) - 1 Chainfist 3 Despoiler Squad (315) x3 - additional chainaxes - power axe, armor, and melta bomb 3 Apothacary (165) - Art Arm Spartan Assault tank (320) - Void Shield 1905 pts I like it so far but seems to really be easily taken out by enemy armor, and thinking maybe butchers out for a fire raptor or the dreadnoughts? BTW what book and page are the deredeo dread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBOcaster Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 No book yet I think, but there is this that FW released http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deredeo.pdf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 With having only one tank, the Spartan will be a fire magnet I would of thought? I like it though, very similar to what I am looking to build. It's so hard to fit in all the goodies and fun things at 2000! Think I might start with a base 2500 just to get some extra armour in Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3984947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yeah see I was thinking if I could make room for a fire raptor then maybe I could have more coverage and be a little safer from flyers and enemy tech Does anyone have a specific build for fire raptor that they like? I saw the model and now I am getting one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3985275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 There isn't really one. Fire Raptors are perfect point dumps as they work pretty much regardless of what your force consists of. Always always pick up the autocannons though. They are just that much better unless facing solely T4 sv 4+ threats. The ability to hit vehicles for not much reduction in rate of fire is ace. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3985570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Drop the butchers for some regular terminators, they do incredibly well, are cheaper, and more modular. Also, drop the extra bolters on all the guys, you want them running up the field as fast as possible because if they footslog up, they are susceptible togetting hit with all sorts or nastiness. Plus the bolters may kill of guys that make your charge distance longer. Another option is to switch the butchers for a command squad. WS5, 2+/5++ with shields and fearless to all units within the banner range is nice! but kinda a waste of the Spartan. With the 120 points from taking the bolters off and your remaining 95 points, I'd get a Deredeo dreadnought with the autocannons and Aiolos launcher. He can perform anti AV13, anti air, and can pin down units for you to charge at. Essentially it fills in all the gaps you need :) If you want to do something fluffy and a bit nutty, replace the butchers for 8 regular terminators with one power fist (8 is Khorne's favorite number ;)) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3985764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I see a lot of heresy heads rating the dreedo very highly....that model is just way too awful to use though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3985800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Hey Depth, i'll definitely look into those changes! But does anyone have an opinion of the fire raptor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3985991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I see a lot of heresy heads rating the dreedo very highly....that model is just way too awful to use though All very subjective, that comment is. Also, nothing is stopping you from fixing any perceived deficiencies; just as Wolf_Pack hes got a few ideas... Fire Raptor: only give it Reaper Autocannons. Good as is afterwards. Solid Unit all around; potentially shooting 4 different targets per turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3986036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nookie Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 So I think that after all the suggestions I have found a nice fluffy list that I like, do you guys see any issues with it? Any other suggestions? Things I will have to deal with that I can't handle? +++World Eater Traitor 2000pts +++ (Doom of the World Eaters legion) (Berserker Assault) Khârn (190) - Gorechild 5 Red Butchers (285) - 1 Chainfist 3 Despoiler Squad (275) x3 - power axe, armor, and melta bomb 3 Apothacary (165) - Art Arm Spartan Assault tank (320) - Void Shield Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220) - Aiolos missile launcher 2005 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304953-help-with-traitor-world-eaters-army/#findComment-3988500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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