Everon Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 So since were on about storm ravens, what does one think about using a storm eagle ROC (allied of course)? Is it more worth it to have a raven an eagle or both? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3988753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Don't forget the S8 AP2 missiles as well. They're very handy against pretty much anything, especially being Ordnance. Are the GK missiles different than the C:SM ones? Ours are not ordnance which actually is better IMO because you can shoot some missiles and still fire other stuff at full BS. In the couple of games I've run a raven I've used the MM/LC combo to great effect especially against other flyers. Since most flyers are AV12 or lower your chances of penning with one or both of those weapons is excellent. Plus if you really need it to go down you can fire missiles too. So since were on about storm ravens, what does one think about using a storm eagle ROC (allied of course)? Is it more worth it to have a raven an eagle or both? The ROC pattern is some serious AT with all those high S shots(up to 7!) you are sure to kill or maim something every time it fires. The problem with it is that it can cost more than 100 points more than a Raven. But if you have the points to spare then go for it. You won't be disappointed. Plus the Storm Eagle is one sexy model ;) I use mine as a stand in for Raven's as I think the Raven's are pretty stumpy looking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3988854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Needing to get close, leading to a poor tactic that got both (units) killed is not presuming anything? Saying that the units we bring limit what we can do with the unit is all fine and dandy but with the limited information I gave about the game, because I do not feel like giving a full report, preferring to internalise my mistakes, I feel you are indeed presuming a whole lot about the game.I made a lot of mistakes, mainly in deployment. I put the comms relay with 5 accompanying interceptors in a corner behind LoS blocking terrain, thinking they could just sit there until the raven was on, and shunt up. Thanks to -1 to reserve rolls as his warlord trait, I didn't get it on til turn 3, which admittedly isn't late but could have been better. I had by this point lost 4 out of 5 guys to the flyrant, the flyrant was in my right corner, my forces was up in the left corner eating his flank, I needed the purifiers to eat gaunts spewn out by the tervigon en-masse on the middle-right side before I got too badly bogged down while trying to smash in to his centre. I think 3x gaunt squads, 1 dakkafex, and 1 tervigon is a pretty juicy target for CF.Why on earth not attack the right side first if it has a tervigon? . My options were Venomthrope, dakkafex, exocrine, gaunts, objective3 (left side) or tervigon, dakkafex, swarmlord, gaunts (right side). I'm a bit worried about the swarmlord, I've only ever fought him once and he ate an NDK before I got to hit him back. Might have been poor luck, I do not know. So deployment: terrible. Not throwing 5 terminators, librarian and inquisitor into 8 gaunts that was bogging down an NDK, also a mistake, I thought with mastercrafted reroll I could kill 4 a turn, two turns and avoid taking shooting in his turn. But what does any of this have to do with the Stormraven? Of course, the units we bring dictate what we can use them for so maybe I shouldn't have brought it after all, knocking the game down 340 odd points and I wouldn't have met the swarmlord, or possibly rolled a different mission? >_< So hopefully more on topic:Incidentally, since I'm very new to using a flyer, how does one remain at range on long table edges with 18" minimal movement and only a 90' turn, and be able to fire the main weapon? In addition would actually remaining at 48" not allow the flyrant, or any flyer, to move up and unleash on me the next turn regardless, making the range moot? I've so far always brought an all-comers list and gone "right guys, I've got x points, who's for a game then" and if I want a general Stormraven I'm not sure +25 points for a missile launcher vs the multi melta is such a great value. Sure I can remain at range, but in my thought experiments I have so far not seen the benefit of doing so: flyers move quick and catch up with me anyway, I lose the cleansing flame bomb cargo (which I could drop off on the way to target with Skies of Fury), it is less likely to actually pop a high value armoured target and at a greater cost.I will for sure try out the lascannons in the future as it seems like most people run that configuration. I do see the appeal of a second high powered 1 shot weapon, that can also target someone else with POTMS with a lot less restrictive firing zone, but I'm still sort of hot for the assault cannons and their ability to shred light vehicles and troops alike.Oh and as for the missiles, they are not ordinance as far as I can read the codex? Not sure what concussive is good for at range though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3988861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterOffShred Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I built the fuselage and main body of mine yesterday and I'm magnetizing the guns today! The front turret is super easy to magnetize, but the upper turret guns are a little trickier. I'm leaning towards the melta's and lascannons for high str tank popping glory, but I haven't played in a while and I'm not sure what the current Meta is looking like so I'm going to leave my options open. As for the Swarmlord, Yeah.. He BF's most things with relative ease. I haven't played against him this edition, but in the previous I just had to shoot him up before he got to me to be successful. He only gets his Invlun save in CC so shooting him in the face while he advances is a good go. Most good players won't bring the Swarmlord without a Tyrant gaurd, (or really at all, since he's not really competitive compared to another flyrant) which makes downing him a huge expenditure of resources as they are each T6 and have 2 wounds and if I remember correctly any Tyrant (swarmlord included) auto passes Lookout sirs to them. Weapon skill 9, T6, I6.. ID bonesabres.. he's a handful. He's not an Eternal Warrior, and only gets that Ivuln save against "wounds caused by melee weapons" so shoot away. My buddy brought him in a game in 6th edition and I ended up using massed Pink Horror fire (str 6 with prescience) to bring him down with a bunch of failed saves. The Raven could be set up for MC duty as well if you face lots of them in your Meta. I'm not sure how they fare against Flyrants, but plasma always works good and so do missiles. -Brett Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Shooting the swarmlord is still my common tactic. He's usually guarded, and to be honest I'd rather see him than 2-3 Flyrants which are almost certain to render your Stormraven into mediocrity as it jinks for its life all game.... (the flyrant very easily glances any flyer I've tried in a turn, not withstanding horrid luck on the Tyranid player's part.) That's my experience anyway. I'm of split mind about it. The load out I mention earlier is the one I've used with Ultramarines, but that's because they have Stormtalon access which is perhaps my favorite unit in that codex (I frequently took 2 with missiles). BUT I'd keep the load out the same because GK's have such poor access to 'cheap' anti tank. (I don't understand the Dreadnaught costs, even with rarity considered... it does not cost more to build one unless the taxes on Titan are crazy high?) Anyway, this is just me, but the only way I see of peppering lascannons/melta 'type' shots without allying is Razorbacks: Twin-las or Las/plas (my favorite). But in an army that hardly uses transports, I'd never take just one (you'd kiss it goodbye against any mediocre shooty army). So I'd take 2-3 razorbacks with las, which would change the dynamic of the Grey Knights dramatically... potentially even breaking the effectiveness by using so many points this way, taking away from your numbers! (?) Finally the only other way I see around this issue is a Landraider. Emperor knows I have tried a landraider in every army I own.... believe it or not, my Crimson Slaughter lord, re-rolling for Warlord Traits, tries to get 'Shroud' and I stick him with a unit in a landraider for a single turn "smoke" save of 3+. After that I'd say the Dark Angel Landraider is 'okay' but WAAAY too expensive being followed by a PFG Biker.... GK Landraiders have none of those advantages, so I've come full circle to thinking the Stormraven is the single most effective (but risky) way of getting that type of weaponry. Therefore I can't see putting assault canons on it. It's just replicating the type of firepower I already have access to in the form of heavy incinerators, and medium strength anti-infantry stuff..... even heavy psycannons overlap in purpose to some degree. +++++++++++++++++++++++ Additional issue of Stormravens I want to discuss: Can a hovering Stormraven claim an objective? I ask because I used to say 'yes'. Then while playing my Chaos last week, I was hovering my baledrake flyer to contest a last turn objective. My opponent argued I couldn't because the rulebook states hovering flyers are considered 6" off the ground and the objective was a 'coin' style marker with no height so I couldn't get within 3". (also when measuring from a flyer you will find all references are from the hull except for embarking/disembarking.) My argument was it was a 'skimmer' at that point and people use skimmers to claim objectives all the time, but I don't actually know if this was a valid argument. I lost the game on that single point in the last turn, so I would really like to know if there is something official on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 That is an interesting question Prot! I'll try to have a look for it tomorrow. And yes the Swarmlord never leaves home without his autopass look out Sir buddies. I'll man up in proper grey knight fashion next time I see him and try to riddle him with bullet holes. Never know what two forced up psylencer ndks can accomplish. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Just want to point out, you can't go Las-Plas on a Stormraven. It's turret is either AC, Las, or Plas, while the nose is HB, MM, or ML. Just Say'n. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 That is an interesting question Prot! I'll try to have a look for it tomorrow. And yes the Swarmlord never leaves home without his autopass look out Sir buddies. I'll man up in proper grey knight fashion next time I see him and try to riddle him with bullet holes. Never know what two forced up psylencer ndks can accomplish. You know as a side note a guy was tearing up a few weeks with his Swarmlord 'Look out buddies'. And I finally played him, and absolutely annihilated the squad in a presience assisted Centurion shooting round (or two? can't remember exactly) but I do recall the look on his face. Last week, I got a total of one wound on a Tervigon spitting out babies. The wound was with my NDK Psilencer. I held my breath as he rolled the dice... apparently I hit 'her' in the naughty bitz because she went down like a sack of potatoes, 6 wounds and all. (that's been my first big kill with the psilencer, I failed miserably against the tyrant) Good luck. Just want to point out, you can't go Las-Plas on a Stormraven. It's turret is either AC, Las, or Plas, while the nose is HB, MM, or ML. Just Say'n. SJ This is probably entirely due to my poor communication but I was referring to the 'alternatives' to Stormraven weaponry available for approximately similar roles. I was using the Las/plas Razorback as an example.... but yea, I don't want to further confuse anyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Additional issue of Stormravens I want to discuss: Can a hovering Stormraven claim an objective? I ask because I used to say 'yes'. Then while playing my Chaos last week, I was hovering my baledrake flyer to contest a last turn objective. My opponent argued I couldn't because the rulebook states hovering flyers are considered 6" off the ground and the objective was a 'coin' style marker with no height so I couldn't get within 3". (also when measuring from a flyer you will find all references are from the hull except for embarking/disembarking.) My argument was it was a 'skimmer' at that point and people use skimmers to claim objectives all the time, but I don't actually know if this was a valid argument. I lost the game on that single point in the last turn, so I would really like to know if there is something official on this? I'd ask where it says that flyers are considered 6" off the ground? Never heard that before. I see no reason why a flyer couldn't contest an objective in hover mode. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 It seems that since we measure from the hull of the flyer and not the base, with the flight base stand being ~5 inches regardless of the flyer being in hover or zooming, and objectives can only be claimed/contested within 3 inches, you'd need to have either tall objectives or place them in e.g. second floor of a ruin. There's some people talking about modelling for advantage with either tall objectives or using a different (shorter) flight stand, since only the supplied base or equivalent "should" be used. There also seems that some people house rule this where they remove the flight stand completely when a flyer is in hover mode, possibly also making it easier on themselves to distinguish which mode the flyer is in.Though the spirit of the game pretty much says: don't be a jerk, have fun and talk things out so both sides agree before the game begins... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Though the spirit of the game pretty much says: don't be a jerk, have fun and talk things out so both sides agree before the game begins... Yep, pretty much my thoughts. The "Most important rule" takes effect here for me. But then I'm not a super hardcore tournament player so I'm sure that biases my opinion ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3989911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Yeah, if you go into Hover mode, its only if you think you can move, disembark 6", and then successfully charge. Otherwise, you might as well just Zoom and drop them out off the homer. You'll move further. I... I never even thought of that. That's diabolical and I love it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3990047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I... I never even thought of that. That's diabolical and I love it. We do still have a few tricks left, even if they're not especially powerful ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3990847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterOffShred Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 So if I ally blood angels, can I take a death company dread in the raven in addition to my purifiers and drop them all at the same time? I read the rules a few times and I'm not seeing any reason why not.. It seems like it could be fun. -Brett Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3991174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 So if I ally blood angels, can I take a death company dread in the raven in addition to my purifiers and drop them all at the same time? I read the rules a few times and I'm not seeing any reason why not.. It seems like it could be fun. -Brett Yes, you can put any unit that is battle brothers inside any transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3991211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterOffShred Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I started painting my Stormraven last night, and I have to say blocking out huge chunks of a vehicle with leadbelcher is super boring.. But on the upside it looks pretty good. Now that I have a purpose for the blood angels that came with the Death Storm set, I get to look forward to painting them too. Maybe I'll magnetize the Icons on the raven so I can swap them out between blood angel icons and GK.. Has anyone magnetized the turret weapons on the raven? It looks like it would be super easy, but the armor shielding bit that goes on the outside of each weapon might be a little tricky. I guess a guy could make a couple extra out of card-stock for the lesser used guns. -Brett Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3991242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 That's a good question Personally I'm afraid to paint mine because I honestly don't know if I will make gk my main army. But I did get quite a laugh out of your experience on painting it leadbelcher I would prefer to magnetize everything including hurricane bolters which it appears no one uses. But I haven't seen it done yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3991248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterOffShred Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yeah I am going to use the small flat mega magnets from Gaussboys, because I'm the same way. I want to have everything ready to go so in like 3 months when the meta shifts and everyone needs hurricane bolters I wont be SOL. When I glued the doors on the side, I used like half a drop and only on one corner so i should be able to pry them off with the "sword of exact zero". Being how snug of a fit the doors/hurricane bolter turret deals are, I think we should be able to get away with a fairly small magnet, and thus require less invasive surgery to get them in there, and leave more meat in the area. Ill probably give this a go tomorrow. (sons third birthday today) -Brett Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3991285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Magnetising doors isn't half bad, unless you want the inside to look pretty. Bit of sprue across the door on the inside, magnetite to that, done! But you can't open the hatches to brag about the paint job as much... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3993959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Small magnets in the frame matched to the door and the sponsor cap. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3994087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Anyone have a picture of this by chance? I'm definitely not gluing doors on. I burned a lot of magnets on the Interceptors and I'm truly not sure why as I doubt I'll use a Strike Squad... ever.... But I definitely don't want to buy two ravens just to have that option. Right now it might be terrible... heck it might never change, but I'd like the option. Honestly I'm probably just going to glue the Multi melta's. I just can't see not using it for missiles. (I still haven't decided about the twin las, which will probably also be permanent for me.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3994130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Honestly I'm probably just going to glue the Multi melta's. I just can't see not using it for missiles. (I still haven't decided about the twin las, which will probably also be permanent for me.) The typhoon is just too expensive, and the multi-melta has much better odds of one-shotting something when combined with your turret twin-AC or twin-las. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3994203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 I can't seem to manage to post links... Perhaps my postcount is too low? At any rate there is a decent guide on how to magnetise the wings, turret and front guns on Warbuilder.wordpress.com, A simple google search for "magnetise storm raven" will do you justice. As for the doors, my method is clip off a piece of sprue, glue it on the inside of the raven going across the door space. Attach magnet to that, then to the inside of the door, done. The other more fiddly way is using really small magnets and drilling holes/arranging them at the small lip where the doors sit. Or do the black magic you see in the above guide where he makes it so you can just snap the guns on top of the door, gluing the door in place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3995304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I drill a hole down the length of the door, and slip a section of paper clip into the hole. Behind the frame, I mount a neomagnet opposite where the paper clip will line up when the door is closed. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3995381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 My raven is MM, Lascannon, Hurricane Bolters, and I run it empty. It's main purpose is anti air and tank hunting. For me the Hurricane bolters are mandatory. For 5 points over the price of a single power fist you get great anti infantry firepower. Because the Raven is fast it's easy to get close to some troops on an objective late game to thin them out... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304975-how-do-you-run-your-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-3995421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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