Prot's Thin Grey Line: 1K Grey Knights batrep

[Prot]

So if the Teleport homer can't be used this way, then I suppose it also can't be used on a Raven to 'deep strike' the squad on board?

[IndigoJack]

A true null deployment is deploying zero models during deployment and playing everything in reserves (null, by definition, means zero) the best way to go about it is either through a character that modifies reserves, or try and get a warlord trait that affects reserves.

[jeffersonian000]

A true null deployment is deploying zero models during deployment and playing everything in reserves (null, by definition, means zero) the best way to go about it is either through a character that modifies reserves, or try and get a warlord trait that affects reserves.

The term "Null Deployment" predates 40k, and the definition I provided as well as the examples are correct. Don't get caught up in the mind set that the way you do something now and the way you use terms now are correct when someone else points out that it isn't, or where the error is.

 

So if the Teleport homer can't be used this way, then I suppose it also can't be used on a Raven to 'deep strike' the squad on board?

The Locator Beacon available on the Stormraven can be used to eliminate scatter on units disembarking while the SR is zooming, but only on the turns after the SR arrived on the table.

 

SJ

[Adeptus]

I now realize at 1K, and 14 models, I can't afford to hold back. I need everything on the table ASAP at this level.

 

This is true, but the other important thing to consider is that without deepstrike, our terminators are very slow. So you can footslog them across the board, but you might eat two rounds of shooting before you do anything meaningful, and there's a very good chance they'll never get into combat at all. On the other hand, if you deepstrike them, they may come in too late and be easy meat for your opponent. It's a tough call.

[ChaoticEric]

So if the Teleport homer can't be used this way, then I suppose it also can't be used on a Raven to 'deep strike' the squad on board?

As already mentioned, what you can buy for our storm raven is a locator beacon and not a teleport homer so it has different rules and works on "deep strike".

[Prot]

Ugh... okay. I guess to keep it real, in the future I can use the one on the Stormraven with Purifiers, but the gating trick is outFor this week I changed the list up to fit the Teleporter on the Interceptors for Termie Gating. Now I guess I'll just go back to deep striking termies from reserves.... but I'll keep the teleporter just incase it makes sense to tap him off of the interceptors after a turn 2 (?) Shunt.

 

Thanks for the advice guys... and keeping it legal. (I don't want to accidentally 'cheat') 

[jeffersonian000]

Ugh... okay. I guess to keep it real, in the future I can use the one on the Stormraven with Purifiers, but the gating trick is outFor this week I changed the list up to fit the Teleporter on the Interceptors for Termie Gating. Now I guess I'll just go back to deep striking termies from reserves.... but I'll keep the teleporter just incase it makes sense to tap him off of the interceptors after a turn 2 (?) Shunt.

 

Thanks for the advice guys... and keeping it legal. (I don't want to accidentally 'cheat')

I seed Teleport Homers throughout my list to assist with Gating, allowing Draigo and/or my Librarian to Gate without error during the game, after movement is completed (rather than before movement, as with Deep Striking from Reserves). The wording of the rules for Teleport Homers is quite clear that it works with TDA and PT models arriving by Deep Strike (also known as Deep Strike Reseve).

 

SJ

[ChaoticEric]

 

Ugh... okay. I guess to keep it real, in the future I can use the one on the Stormraven with Purifiers, but the gating trick is outFor this week I changed the list up to fit the Teleporter on the Interceptors for Termie Gating. Now I guess I'll just go back to deep striking termies from reserves.... but I'll keep the teleporter just incase it makes sense to tap him off of the interceptors after a turn 2 (?) Shunt.

Thanks for the advice guys... and keeping it legal. (I don't want to accidentally 'cheat')

I seed Teleport Homers throughout my list to assist with Gating, allowing Draigo and/or my Librarian to Gate without error during the game, after movement is completed (rather than before movement, as with Deep Striking from Reserves). The wording of the rules for Teleport Homers is quite clear that it works with TDA and PT models arriving by Deep Strike (also known as Deep Strike Reseve).

SJ

Actually it's very clear as the teleport homer specifically mentions it only works when arriving from "deep strike reserves" and not "deep strike" so it doesn't work with gate of infinity.

[Prot]

So this is new to me.... This isn't a 'grey' area? (no pun intended)

 

I mean it seems a few people here are using it incorrectly then.

[jeffersonian000]

Actually it's very clear as the teleport homer specifically mentions it only works when arriving from "deep strike reserves" and not "deep strike" so it doesn't work with gate of infinity.

Per the rules for Deep Strike, arriving by Deep Strike is also known as Deep Strike Reserves. Per Gate of Infinity, the unit is removed from the table and immediately returns using the rules for Deep Strike. Per Teleport Homer, any friendly unit composed entirely of models equipped with TDA or PT arriving from Deep Strike Reserves may use the Homer to arrive without scatter. Per Rites of Teleportation, an NSF unit that arrives from Deep Strike Reserves may Run and shoot, or shoot and run on the turn the unit arrives.

 

Per RAW, Deep Strike = Deep Strike Reserves, which means that a NSF TDA unit using Gate to Deep Strike will trigger Rites and can use Teleport Homers. Per RAW, Reserves and Deep Strike Reserves are not the same thing, despite using the word "Reserve". People arguing against this are arguing RAI, or HYWPI, not RAW. Without an FAQ or Errata to advise us on intention, RAI has no authority, while How You Would Play It is house rules, not the Rules As Written.

 

SJ

[Azekellon]

A word of advice, Bruva. When faced with spammy, wretched Xenos, face it with bolters blazing. Cheap units outfitted with boltguns and a missile launcher here and there will tear just about any army apart if you dig in and HOLD THE LINE!

 

Assault squads may do some good (I have no idea if GK have assault units, I play BA mostly) to fortify the line and hop over lines to mop up anything left over after a decent round of shoosting.

 

Expensive units like Dreadknights just get blown to pieces, and quickly. They're low mobility, yes? If no, take advantage of that, and wreak havok in the Assault phase. Another thing about expensive units, is that if it's on the table, the flashier it's kitted, the more of a fire magnet it will be.

[jeffersonian000]

A word of advice, Bruva. When faced with spammy, wretched Xenos, face it with bolters blazing. Cheap units outfitted with boltguns and a missile launcher here and there will tear just about any army apart if you dig in and HOLD THE LINE!

 

Assault squads may do some good (I have no idea if GK have assault units, I play BA mostly) to fortify the line and hop over lines to mop up anything left over after a decent round of shoosting.

 

Expensive units like Dreadknights just get blown to pieces, and quickly. They're low mobility, yes? If no, take advantage of that, and wreak havok in the Assault phase. Another thing about expensive units, is that if it's on the table, the flashier it's kitted, the more of a fire magnet it will be.

Technically, NDKs are our "Assault Unit". Interceptors don't quite fit the bill, as they are closer to Scouts on Bikes than actual Assault Marines, despite being Jump Infantry.

 

SJ

[Prot]

Alright then... it's back in the list. lol

 

I will use it for Gate, and I'll use it on the Raven in bigger games as well.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

A word of advice, Bruva. When faced with spammy, wretched Xenos, face it with bolters blazing. Cheap units outfitted with boltguns and a missile launcher here and there will tear just about any army apart if you dig in and HOLD THE LINE!

 

>laughingriptides.png

Tac spam hasn't been viable since like...Throne, 4th edition? Maybe not even then. Not to mention Serpents and Flyer armies laugh at your pitiful anti-tank dakka. A handful of missile launchers doesn't scare anyone. You need S6/7 in bulk to have decent anti-vehicle firepower these days (not just for normal mech, Knight-Titans also stomp armies with low anti-tank output). 

Assault squads may do some good (I have no idea if GK have assault units, I play BA mostly) to fortify the line and hop over lines to mop up anything left over after a decent round of shoosting.

 

To give you an indication of how bad melee is now, our Interceptors are the best MeQ assault unit in the game. And we still don't commonly take them, because DK's cost about the same and are so much better in every measure. Regular Assault Marines? They're competing with Scouts for 'worst Marine infantry choice'. At least Scouts can be used as cheap Troops filler and bring Infiltrating+Scouting teleport homers. Assault Marines don't even usually kill what you send them against, unless its bolter bait anyway (Cultists, Kroot, etc). 

Expensive units like Dreadknights just get blown to pieces, and quickly. They're low mobility, yes? If no, take advantage of that, and wreak havok in the Assault phase. Another thing about expensive units, is that if it's on the table, the flashier it's kitted, the more of a fire magnet it will be.

 

>low mobility

>what are personal teleporters

[Gentlemanloser]

Not to post more ont he topic, as the last thread got locked.  But I'll link an old OR thread.

 

This is relevant if you allow TH to work with Gate, as it allows Coteaz to shoot you when you gate;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290470-coteaz-ibey-and-drop-pods/

[Zhukov]

 

To give you an indication of how bad melee is now, our Interceptors are the best MeQ assault unit in the game.

I'm not sure why this misconception is still going around in 40k. Almost every competitive army has melee elements in it.

 

Also wrong regarding the second statement, Death Company are a *way* better assault unit than interceptors are for example.

[Prot]

I don't know Coteaz's rules, but you're saying the same mechanic that should allow Coteaz to shoot at them would be the same mechanic that should allow the Terminator's to use the Teleport Homer for Gate of Infinity? (I did read the other (older) topic you are perusing specifically on the gate question.)

 

To me the mechanism is triggering the deep strike. The argument of arriving from reserves doesn't seem valid because this is outside of your run of the mill deep strike created by a special circumstance; namely Gate. But it does seem to replicate the requirements of using a TH.

 

I'm afraid aside from an FAQ, if there is no consistency on this I'd have to go with whatever larger tournaments are using for the ruling? But you do have a good point... if Coteaz is leveraging the mechanism to his benefit, it should also work for GK's.

[Prot]

 

 

To give you an indication of how bad melee is now, our Interceptors are the best MeQ assault unit in the game.

I'm not sure why this misconception is still going around in 40k. Almost every competitive army has melee elements in it.

 

Also wrong regarding the second statement, Death Company are a *way* better assault unit than interceptors are for example.

 

 

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think what Darius is saying is more towards the point of melee in competition. It's not common to see marine armies push that angle of attack.... mostly because we/they are so inefficient at it.

 

Here's what I mean: I agree with you that Death Company are (by Astartes standards) a very good assault unit. However, I'll take an equal amount of points in even Flayed Ones over that. To go a step further, a unit of Sword and Board Lychguard. Another notch up? Canoptek Harvest empowered Wraiths.

 

To be honest, I have run every unit I just mentioned in games, including run of the mill assault marines. Honestly with the way codexes are going, the run of the mill assault marine feels like trash.... unjustly so.

 

But even if for a split second we all agreed on this (which I know we won't), I'm still partially attracted to Grey Knights because they actually CAN kick some teeth in during close combat. Hammerhand and Force isn't always going to go off (or so I'm experiencing) but it's that little edge that seems to tip the scales in a scenario where the 'common' assault marine will be stuck in a slap fight for 2-3 turns (if he's not wiped out.)

 

Frankly I'm tired of playing shooty marines. Dark Angels came -close- to having a nice CC specialization but they pay way too much for mediocrity with horrid special characters. Chaos gave me similar hopes but they have a very similar overvaluing of mediocre 'special rules' (as you well know).

 

So be that as it may, aside from "special" units (IE: TWC), what marine army is better at taking the fight to close combat?

[jeffersonian000]

Not to post more ont he topic, as the last thread got locked. But I'll link an old OR thread.

 

This is relevant if you allow TH to work with Gate, as it allows Coteaz to shoot you when you gate;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/290470-coteaz-ibey-and-drop-pods/

IBEY has no effect on units arriving via Gate.

 

I’ve Been Expecting You: If an enemy unit arrives from reserves within 12" of Coteaz and within his line of sight, Coteaz and his unit can immediately make an out-ofsequence shooting attack against it. There is no limit on how many times the ability can be used in a turn.

Reserves =/= Deep Strike Reserse

 

Despite using the same word, "Reserve", the two terms do not mean the same thing. Per the BRB, "Deep Strike" and "Deep Strike Reserve" are the exact same thing, while being in "Reserves" has no relation to Deep Strike other than that in most cases, Deep Strike starts with a unit in Reserves. Gate of Infinity, on the other hand, is an example of Deep Strike occurring where the unit in question did not start in Reserves, while Skies of Fury is another example where a unit Deep Strikes from a zooming Flyer (not Reserves). IBEY is triggered by units arriving from Reserves.

 

SJ

[Prot]

Okay guys, not to be rude, but I need help figuring this out.... my games are slotted for tonight. So how about a simple vote.

 

Can I use Gate in conjunction with my Interceptor's TH? Please vote: Yes. No. I'm not sure.

[Zembar]

I'm not sure, but I hope it does.

[Zhukov]

Can I use Gate in conjunction with my Interceptor's TH? Please vote: Yes. No. I'm not sure.

In case of doubt you should always choose the weakest alternative anyways, so no.

but even if for a split second we all agreed on this (which I know we won't),

Agreeing in what exactly? Your whole post confuses me a bit, it seems like it replies to things I didn't imply in the first place. I think it was pretty clear what Darius said and I replied to it.

Frankly I'm tired of playing shooty marines. Dark Angels came -close- to having a nice CC specialization but they pay way too much for mediocrity with horrid special characters. Chaos gave me similar hopes but they have a very similar overvaluing of mediocre 'special rules' (as you well know).

So be that as it may, aside from "special" units (IE: TWC), what marine army is better at taking the fight to close combat?

Why apart from special units? The standard Marine is just stuck with the Marine profile and marine wargear, so per definition will have issues of being good at assaulting. SW assaults the best because of TWC, it's as simple as that. Chaos does it okay too with 40 Flesh Hounds and a bunch of Maulerfiends. Blood Angels should fair allright as well, provided you spam Death Company, think 30+, 1 powerfist per 5. Grey Knights? Not so much no, only Dreadknights can function as Assault unit and even they are better of playing the generalist role.

If you're tired of shooty Marines, then you shouldn't be playing the 3 Marine armies which can't do assault for lol. (Vanilla, DA and GK are the least suited for it)

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Can I use Gate in conjunction with my Interceptor's TH? Please vote: Yes. No. I'm not sure.

 

No.

[jeffersonian000]

Can I use Gate in conjunction with my Interceptor's TH? Please vote: Yes. No. I'm not sure.

It doesn't matter what we say. Want matters is what the rules show in print, and what you and your opponent agree to. Per RAW, the answer is Yes.

 

SJ

[Prot]

 

but even if for a split second we all agreed on this (which I know we won't),

Agreeing in what exactly? Your whole post confuses me a bit, it seems like it replies to things I didn't imply in the first place. I think it was pretty clear what Darius said and I replied to it.

 

 

 

What I was referring to is; I think GK can assault pretty decently for a power armoured army. Generally speaking (I don't know what you think) I believe most won't agree with my belief. Also, my only statement directly towards you, to clear up confusion, was in reference to Darius' statement. It doesn't matter... let's move on...

 

 

Quote

    Frankly I'm tired of playing shooty marines. Dark Angels came -close- to having a nice CC specialization but they pay way too much for mediocrity with horrid special characters. Chaos gave me similar hopes but they have a very similar overvaluing of mediocre 'special rules' (as you well know).

    So be that as it may, aside from "special" units (IE: TWC), what marine army is better at taking the fight to close combat?

 

 

 

Why apart from special units? The standard Marine is just stuck with the Marine profile and marine wargear, so per definition will have issues of being good at assaulting. SW assaults the best because of TWC, it's as simple as that. Chaos does it okay too with 40 Flesh Hounds and a bunch of Maulerfiends. Blood Angels should fair allright as well, provided you spam Death Company, think 30+, 1 powerfist per 5. Grey Knights? Not so much no, only Dreadknights can function as Assault unit and even they are better of playing the generalist role.

If you're tired of shooty Marines, then you shouldn't be playing the 3 Marine armies which can't do assault for censored.gif lol. (Vanilla, DA and GK are the least suited for it)

 

 

I think a lot is getting lost in translation here....  But I will say this, out of all the marine based armies I play, GK seem competent in CC compared to those other buggers.

 

I can't play Wolves or BA. I play against them too often.... I didn't want to be just another guy with that army and we had no Grey Knight player so it seemed like a good fit at the time!