Prot's Thin Grey Line: 1K Grey Knights batrep

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Reserves =/= Deep Strike Reserse

 

You can IBEY a Drop Pod.

 

Our FAQ even confirms that.

 

Come on Jeff.  I really don't want to go back to this discussion...

[jeffersonian000]

 

Reserves =/= Deep Strike Reserse

You can IBEY a Drop Pod.

 

Our FAQ even confirms that.

 

Come on Jeff. I really don't want to go back to this discussion...

Of course you can IBEY a Drop Pod! The Drod Pod Arrived From Reserves!!!!

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

I don't get your point.

 

The Drop Pod had to arrive from Deep Strike Reserves, as it's a Drop Pod.

 

Just just two posts ago you claim that DSR isn't the same as Reserves?

 

You're contradicting your own argument now Jeff....

 

 

 

I’ve Been Expecting You: If an enemy unit arrives from reserves within 12" of Coteaz and within his line of sight, Coteaz and his unit can immediately make an out-ofsequence shooting attack against it. There is no limit on how many times the ability can be used in a turn.

 

A Drop Pod enters play form DSR.  This *obviously* qualifies for IBEYs reserves portion of the rule.

 

Therefore the entire point is if you rule that Gate is also arriving form reserves and works with a TH, then IBEY also has to work on Gate.

 

Edit: GK TH only work on units "arriving from Deep Strike Reserves".

 

1: A Drop Pod enters play from DSR.

2: You can IBEY a Drop Pod.

3: If a TH works with GoI, it's because GoI enters play from DSR.

4: If GoI enters play from DSR you can use IBEY on GoI

 

That it.

 

And Jeff, you should have zero argument about that.

 

You already agree with all the parts...

 

 

Edit: And once we've agreed that if TH work with GoI, you can IBEY, guess what else can also be used *every time a unit uses GoI*.

 

Interceptor.

 

Yup.

 

Have fun with that.

[Adeptus]

I think it's pretty obvious that Deep Strike and Reserve are two separate rules. To be arriving from Deepstrike Reserve would require the unit to satisfy both rules, ie: It must arriving from reserves, and deploying via deepstrike. Not all units deploying by deepstrike are arriving from reserve, and not all reserves are deployed by deepstrike. Deepstrike Reserve obviously refers to a unit that is doing both.

[Zembar]

Don't the rules say that a unit that leaves the board goes into reserves? I'm thinking of mishap rules etc.

[Adeptus]

I don't know if there is a blanket rule for leaving the table and going into reserve. But when you gate, and have a mishap, then you can go into reserve.

[Gentlemanloser]

I think it's pretty obvious that Deep Strike and Reserve are two separate rules. To be arriving from Deepstrike Reserve would require the unit to satisfy both rules, ie: It must arriving from reserves, and deploying via deepstrike. Not all units deploying by deepstrike are arriving from reserve, and not all reserves are deployed by deepstrike. Deepstrike Reserve obviously refers to a unit that is doing both.

 

Deep Strike Reserves is a subsection of Reserves.

 

Every DSR is a Reserve, not every Reserve is a DSR.

 

IBEY and Interceptor trigger from *Reserves* only, which includes every single instance of DSR.

 

TH *only* work with DSR, which does not include all types of Reserves.

 

GoI has *nothing* to do with entering Reserves (unless you mishap and are placed in ongoing Reserves).

 

If you want to rule that GoI actually places you *into* Reserves, then the game gets messy and convulsed.  Deep Strike stops working (as you don't fulfill the requirements to do so) and IBEY and Interceptor get more powerful.

 

But your house rules are your house rules.  Whatever gives you more fun.

 

Again, this is starting to derail the thread, which I really didn't want to do.  But if you want to mess with the rules to change things, then you need to understand how other aspects of the game will change.

 

Like your opponents *always* fielding Coteaz when they face you, so they can blast your GoI unit off the board before it does anything.

 

 

 

Don't the rules say that a unit that leaves the board goes into reserves? I'm thinking of mishap rules etc.

 

There are other types of leaving the board / removing from the table, that have nothing to do with Reserves.

 

Like removing form play as a Casualty, or removing from the table when you embark a Transport/Building.

[Flint13]

++Yeah, no more dead horse beating rules debates. This is your first and final. Please and thanks.++

[Prot]

Let's just leave it as a house rule. No more debate on it. Both sides are right, both sides are wrong. We'll still side side by side in the citadels of Titan eating The Emperor's Wheaties for breakfast. (personally for sake of note and my own list building I will not be using TH with GoI)

 

And I will adapt my lists moving forward but lookout for one more batrep coming soon. I tried bloody hard to get some paint on these guys and just about burned myself out on it....

[jeffersonian000]

I'd like to respond before this thread dies, too.

 

Deep Strike = Deep Strike Reserves, per the BRB, 1st paragraph, 2bd sentence under the Deep Strike USR.

 

Most units using Deep Strike start the game in Reserves, a function of the game where units are not on the table, not dead, yet available to return to the table at some point in the game. However, Deep Strike =/= Reserves. Deep Strike is a mechanic used for units that arrive on the table in an imprecise manner, which includes falling from the sky, tunneling up from the ground, and teleporting from point to point. Currently in the game, there are two common examples of units Deep Striking that did not start in Reserves: Skies of Fury and Gate of Infinity. In cases, the unit in question starts from in play and arrives in the table via the rules for Deep Strike. In the case of Skies, the unit was embarked on a zooming transport In the case of Gates, the unit was on the table casting a psychic power. In both cases, neither unit was in Reserves, and neither unit is Arriving from Reserves by using Skies or Gate.

 

However, both units are arriving from Deep Strike Reserves, due to the wording of Deep Strike. Deep Strike, also referred to as Deep Strike Reserve, is a game mechanic with trigger words. Any effect triggered by "arriving by Deep Strike", "arriving from Deep Strike Reserves", "using the rules for Deep Strike", "counts as Deep Strike", etc., will be triggered by a unit using the Deep Strike game mechanic.

 

Reserves =/= Deep Strike, and Deep Strike Reserves =/= Deep Strike + Reserves. GW failed to differentiate the two concepts, causing some people to see "Reserve" and think "Reserves". A Drop Pod does arrive from Reserves, via Deep Strike (aka, Deep Strike Reserve). However, the BRB equates "Deep Strike" and "Deep Strike Reserve" to be the exact same thing, but at no point tells us "Deep Strike" and "Reserves" are the same thing. Per the BRB, a unit of Assault Marines disembarking from a zooming Stormraven count as arriving by Deep Strike. Did the Assault Marines arrive from Reserves?

 

The answer is: Maybe.

 

If the SR had just arrive that turn from Reserves, the passengers also just arrived from Reserves, making their Skies of Fury disembark "arriving by Deep Strike", but not necessarily "arriving from Reserves". The unit did arrive from arrive from Reserves, but they did not Deep Strike from Reserves, creating a gray area that can be argued either way. In the case of a Drop Pod, the passengers did both "arrive by Deep Strike" and "arrive from Reserves", due to the wording of Drop Pod Assault and Deep Strike. Yet, a unit using Gate does not "arrive from Reserves" despite "arriving by Deep Strike", because the unit was not in Reserves. And while you can replace the term "Deep Strike" with "Deep Strike Reserve", you cannot replace the term "Deep Strike" with "Reserves", nor "Reseves" with "Deep Strike".

 

TL;DR: Deep Strike = Deep Strike Reserves =/= Reserves, just like Heavy Flamers are not "Heavy weapons", nor are Assault Cannons "Assault weapons".

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

I apologise if this causes the thread to be locked, but the above post is wrong.

 

Page 162 tells us quite simply if something is arriving from Reserves by Deep Strike;

 

 

 

When placing the unit in Reserve you must tell your opponent it is arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserves)

 

For the Storm Raven example above, the unit is *clearly not arriving from reserves by Deep Strike or Deep Strike Reserves (the term is interchangable)* as you *cannot* have fufilled the clause above.

 

You cannot arrive by Deep Strike in a Storm Raven, so you *cannot* have placed the Storm Raven (and any embarked units) in Reserves to arrive by Deep Strike.

 

Therefor *no* embarked unit arrives by Deep Strike (or Deep Strike Reserves.  Again this term is interchangeable).

 

It really is simple.

 

DSR has a set condition, which you cannot deviate from.

 

1: Place the unit into Reserves (as detailed prior to a game on page 135)

2: Tell your opponent the Unit, in Reserves, will be arriving by the Deep Strike rule

 

You have to do this to arrive by deep strike.

 

GoI does nothing of the sort.

[Emicus]

*chants* Batrep, batrep, batrep, batrep, batrep.