Necrons ARE NOT Our Friends

[ContemptuousAngel]

Despite what Dante would have us believe, Necrons are really the bane of our existence.

 

Anyway, I am 0-4 for Necrons with one draw. I run fairly tough lists, without allying anything just for the sake of winning. How do we crack the Necron nut? Is there any way to deal with them without resorting to the basest kind of cheese?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Also, since withe the exception of  a minor skirmish with a new player (Harlequins, no less)- for the last 5 games I've played, they've been against Necrons. Each game I've used a different list, but all were geared up with good assault troops and a strong armored fire base. I'm at a loss here.

[Meracalis]

I find myself in a similar position and having nothing to contribute besides this thread from Dakkadakka.

 

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/638037.page

[Red-beard]

I don't have the answer against necrons either. But here is some food for thought:

 

1) Don't bother podding dreadnoughts. Their standard gauss weapons will wreck them in a single turn.

2) Massed AP4 is the way to go against their troops. Make them rely only on their reanimation and they'll die much faster. Power swords and mauls are your friend in close combat.

3) Necron-air is a thing of the past. The new necrons are much stronger on the ground than they are in the air. Bringing a SR or two is not a bad idea. 

4) We have access to lots of FNP (death company spam, command squad, and sanguinary priests). Bringing our own FNP helps make our troops nearly as survivable as theirs.

5) In general, with jumppacks and fast vehicles we have much more mobility than they do. Use that to your advantage in objective based games. 

6) Necrons are mostly short ranged, so long range weapons will out-distance them (a squad of devastators hiding in your backfield, for example).

[ContemptuousAngel]

I've used all of that except for the Devestators because I don't own any. I've even brought (today) 2 storm ravens, a vindicator, and a predator (Used the blood rain strike force for that extra heavy support.)

 

In close combat we own them. I need to remember to kill those stupid ghost arcs. 

[Urauloth]

Dreadpods certainly seem like they'd be useless against necrons, but unfortunately they're pretty great against a lot of other things, so they end up in a lot of TAC lists. How do you adapt when you suddenly face necrons with a list that isn't optimised for fighting them, or are you just fethed when that happens?

 

Should TAC lists be skewed in favour of fighting necrons, even, because of how badly they can crush an army that stumbles into their hard counters?

 

On topic, ContemptuousAngel, how useful is your predator? Is it an annihilator? How do you keep it intact when the bulk of most necron armies are walking can openers? Also, how do you get more than a turn of shooting out of your vindicator when it has the same range as a gauss gun?

[Sans Mercy]

I don't have the answer against necrons either. But here is some food for thought:

2) Massed AP4 is the way to go against their troops. Make them rely only on their reanimation and they'll die much faster. Power swords and mauls are your friend in close combat.

I'm always looking for a reason to run HB Devs/Rhino/Razorback, aside from I find it pretty fun.

[Blood & Thunder]

Equipping your dc with bolter could help with relentless they can double tap and charge. I guess the main way I have nudged my all around lists are with death wind missile launchers on my drop pods and template weapons

[Red-beard]

I've used all of that except for the Devestators because I don't own any. I've even brought (today) 2 storm ravens, a vindicator, and a predator (Used the blood rain strike force for that extra heavy support.)

 

In close combat we own them. I need to remember to kill those stupid ghost arcs. 

 

 

The thing is, we really don't own them in CC. Necrons are rediculously good in CC, especially their dedicated CC units. The whole Necron codex is just flat out OP, especially the decurion detachment. 

 

Wraiths and upgraded Lychguard are both T5/S5 units that have 3++ saves and a 4+/5+ reanimation roll. All models in the upgraded lychguard unit carry AP3 power swords and the wraiths rend. Flayed ones get a ton of CC attacks and even standard necron warriors are amazingly resilient in close combat (tarpitting almost anything they fight). Every necron unit is leadership 10, so it's quite difficult to sweep them. 

 

Sanguinary guard with their 2+ saves are good against Lychguard. We really don't have a good answer for wraiths....DC with power mauls are probably our best bet. If you take Mephiston along, his S10 attacks will instant kill any wraiths that fail their saves/RP.

[CaptainHelion]

Wraiths only get access to RP in a specific formation, which includes a Tomb Spyder. Even then, it's relatively easy to deal with, as you just kill the Spyder, and bye bye Reanimation Protocols. The real strength of wraiths is the 3++ and T5.

[Donkalleone]

the Sicaran is the Necs Bain. Also consider a Bunker wit Quadgun and DEV with ML in it. All Necs vehicles are either skimmer or flyer.

[CaptainHelion]

The point about skimmers is a good one! Anything with Skyfire is going to be getting its full BS against all Necron vehicles. Firestorm Redoubt with those quad lascannons is probably going to wreck face.

[Karhedron]

The trouble with fortifications is the same as with vehicles in that Necrons will glance them to death pretty quickly, especially if they are shooting at them.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

To be honest Necrons power is at range so we need to get into combat fast but templates are your best friend here.

Necron infantry and cookie cutter answers so they always take allot of them, for this reason i say fill up on Heavy Flamers and foot Slogging Bodies in pods. ;)

[Ushtarador]

It's very difficult now to play against necrons - mainly because they just... don't...... die! Even stupid 10 man warrior squads have almost a 2+ save thanks to reanimation protocols, it's incredibly tough. Your best bet for regular necrons definitely is killing them in close combat, one sweeping advance will wipe the whole squad.

This of course does not work with fearless units and wraiths.

The Lychguard blob is actually not that bad for us because it's slow, just dance around it and feed it cheap squads if necessary to keep it off course.

Wraiths are terrible and I really don't understand why they got buffed. As long as they have reanimation protocols, don't even bother, it's wasted shooting. The spider is also very durable, having T6 and reanimation protocols, but it needs to die first (or pulled out of position).

 

Long story short, try to run away and sweep anything that is not fearless in close combat. Also realise that their codex is imbalanced and you probably can't win with pure BA if they play tournament lists.

[ContemptuousAngel]

Here's the last list I used. It's part of a tournament build that I'm refining. I'm nixing the predator and adding a second vindicator. *Flesh Tearers detachment

HQ- Sang Priest (special upgrades like crown angelic and the relic sword)(Jump pack)

Sang Priest (Naked, jump pack, pistol)

Troops: 1 tac squad, heavy flamer, plasma pistol sergent

Fast Attack: Assault squad: x2 melta gun, plasma pistol sergent

X3 razorbacks with heavy flamers

Elites:

Death Company Dreadnought (who has killed 3 monoliths now) blood talons, heavy flamer

Death company (5), on foot, x2 hand flamers, power fist, x3 bolters

Sanguinary Guard: x2 swords, x2 axes, power fist, x2 inferno pistols (they died from an imobalized zooming storm raven...)

Heavy Support:

Vindicator, shield, storm bolter

Predator- autocannon, lascannons

Storm Raven: side sponsoon hurricane bolters, assault cannon, melta

 

Formation: Flesh Tearers Blood Rain Strike Force:

Vanguard Vets (Jumpy) x2 sets of lightning claws, storm shield thunder hammer sergent

Assault squad (jumpy) lighting claw sergent, flamer, hand flamer

Death Company (jumpy) power fist, bolter, inferno pistol, power weapon

Furioso Dreadnought: Frag Cannon, blood fist, heavy flamer 

(The formation Totally cleaned out the side of the table it came in on, even though they died to a man except for the Dreadnought._

[Ming]

I have the new necron codex and have been reading it.  It is interesting...the reanimation protocols wording seems to indicated that yes, it can be improved but, it cannot be improved to better than a 4+....I've been pondering that....

 

If you are going to play vs necrons, be aware of that, and note that we can have BA units that are similar - 

 

Lychguard EQ:  Sanguinary guard or command squad w/ 3++ shields.  Command squads come with their own sanguinary novitiate...etc.

[ContemptuousAngel]

Several things that have made short work of Necron troops, Destroyers, Lords, and Pariahs:

Sanguinary Guard with Sang Priest (WS5 + FNP + AP3/2 mastercrafted wins against just about anything, really.)

Death Company Dreadnought (I really have killed 3 monoliths in 3 games, as well as destroyer lords)

Vanguard Vets with power weapons/lightning claws.

 

The problem is they work too well. In the assault, they kill all the things, then they get shot to death. 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

It is a danger killing to many in a charge and with their boosted BS due to the stalker they hit on 2's and don't wast the shots.

For this reason I think we are best off multi charging so we lose out bonus, it will bog us down for 3 rounds of combat but by the time the dust settles we still would of won, taken less less than we would of otherwise and they will be allot thinner on the ground by this point putting us in prime place to mop up.

 

If we do take any armour though I would heavily hint at a pair of ravens to use as assualt boats and drop pods.

Maybe take a Command Rhino for the rerolls to reserves as well and the oribital bombardment turn 1, park it is some hidden corner safe and you should be laughing.

[CaptainHelion]

The trouble with fortifications is the same as with vehicles in that Necrons will glance them to death pretty quickly, especially if they are shooting at them.

While that's true, I have to ask, how far forward are you deploying your fortifications that they're getting glanced to death by necrons?

[Karhedron]

The trouble with fortifications is the same as with vehicles in that Necrons will glance them to death pretty quickly, especially if they are shooting at them.

While that's true, I have to ask, how far forward are you deploying your fortifications that they're getting glanced to death by necrons?

It depends on your deployment. In 1/3 of missions, you will never be able to deploy more than 36" away. Also Necrons loaded into transports can go all out on Turn 1 and should be in range to start plinking on Turn 2, even if you have deployed down the far end of the board.

[ContemptuousAngel]

Tomorrow I'll be running Strike Force Mortalis against a friend who's playing necrons (that's 5 necron players in a row now, by the way). Just for fun. He hasn't played with the new codex yet. He's also letting me borrow some drop pods so we'll see how that works out.

[Bukimimaru]

Tomorrow I'll be running Strike Force Mortalis against a friend who's playing necrons (that's 5 necron players in a row now, by the way). Just for fun. He hasn't played with the new codex yet. He's also letting me borrow some drop pods so we'll see how that works out.

 

Let us know how that goes Brother. I really want to use that formation and I'm interested to see what it will do against 'crons.

[ContemptuousAngel]

At 2,000 points, I'll be running a Flesh Tearers detachment led by Mephiston; one tac squad and one fast attack razorback, a 6 man assault squad *jumpy* as well as the formation. Mephiston and chaplain will be in pods with DC boys, one squad of jump pack DC, 2 squads of DC in drop pods, a dread in drop pod, the other dread, and the storm raven. 

[GreyCrow]

So, while I don't play Blood Angels specifically, my main tactical leitmotiv when fighting Necrons is to not expect to be able to kill them easily. As in I'm not looking for the tabling. Keeping that in mind will help the fire discipline which I'll be talking about a bit later.

 

Against the Necrons, I would actually go second. People tend to spread out their deployment when they go first, allowing the 2nd player for a good concentration of force compared against a weaker portion of the opponent's army.

Also, if you deploy second in cover or behind line of sight, you greatly hamper the Necron's first turn, forcing them to move out of comfortable positions to hunt you down.

 

Then, here comes the fire discipline. With Necrons, I want to focus on one unit a turn with all of my army for Turn 1 and 2, just to ensure there won't be reanimation protocols, whlie forcing him to spread his firepower around. I have yet to face any 20 men Warriors squad, so I'm not sure if that would be applicable in this case.

Keeping strong assault units in secured spots, I would unleash them in later turns to benefit from one of the Necron's greatest weaknesses : sweeping advances. Their initiative already gives you a +2 bonus to your dice roll, so at the lowest you have half a chance of catching them (if they roll a 6 you catch them on 4+) and completely negate their RP.

[Karhedron]

Keeping strong assault units in secured spots, I would unleash them in later turns to benefit from one of the Necron's greatest weaknesses : sweeping advances. Their initiative already gives you a +2 bonus to your dice roll, so at the lowest you have half a chance of catching them (if they roll a 6 you catch them on 4+) and completely negate their RP.

As one of the few armies that seems to rely on Ld rather than Fearless/ATSKNF/cheese then the Crown Angelic could help ensure those Ld tests are failed a bit more often. Of course list tailoring is a dirty word to some. ;)