What do you think about Elysians?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So, I decided to look into the Elysian Drop Troops. They seemed very interesting, especially the veterans. Their Combat drop rule also looked very interesting.

 

The vets were interesting because they're vets with infiltrate and deep strike, and can take homing beacons. That seems like a great start for allies or for a full blown army.

 

They also get to take vendettas for 130pts a pop base. Honestly I think they look amazing on paper, but I don't know how they'll play on the table. Their ability to get units down the field quickly seems like something I really want in a small force, and I'd take them as an advanced unit supporting my knight. It also get me sentinels easily.

 

 

[WarriorFish]

Elysians are a glass hammer from all I've seen - fun, fluffy but not terribly competitive. If you wanted to have the beardy lists you'd be playing a different army than Guard though ;) Very cool models too and some notable differences to normal Guard so if that interests you go for it! As long as you record your army here of course :P

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I was more interested in the rules, rather than the models, mostly because forge world is so expensive. I was looking for a better way to run my Tempestus as vets, and Elysians seemed to fit the bill. 

 

I've rebuilt my Tempestus to fit the build I want, which is 2 squads of vets, a CCS, and a squad of Stormtroopers. 

 

Company Command Squad

CC- PP/PS

2 MG, Vox w/AGL, Long range Ground Scanner

Officer of the fleet

Krak grenades

 

Stormtrooper squad

Sgt - BP/PS

2MG

Airborne Assault

 

Vet squad 1 -

Grenadiers, Forward Observers

Sarge-BP/PF

3 PG, Vox, HF

 

Vet squad 2 -

Grenadiers, Forward Observers

Sarge - BP/PF

3PG, Vox, HF

 

Vendetta Squadron

2 Vendettas W/HB

 

Tauros Squadron

2 tauros w/GL

 

This is, of course, backed up by my knight, either the Paladin (My favorite) or the Errant. I was thinking of putting the Command squad behind an ADL, with the gun for some extra anti air. 

 

The spammable fliers, and the fast vehicles, and the ability to infiltrate my troops and bring more down on top of my opponent is really nice for the min deployment type armies I like. 

 

I also think this makes them better allies for my wolves than just straight MT's. 

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

You might look at the vulture as well. Very versatile flyer that adds a lot. If you don't want to forgeworld the model (too expensive for me too) you can use a Valk with magnets for the weapons. Seems acceptable to most standards. Keep in mind you will want to play this massively aggressively for it to work. I used it back in 5th Ed against my friend (not Elysians but airborne guard) and he was amazed he had never seen guard used like that. You lose 90% of your force because its so bloody but man is it fun to play. Good Luck.

[march10k]

I think they're misguided idealists...

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I think they're misguided idealists...

 

I meant the rules, not the faction. But do go on...

 

You might look at the vulture as well. Very versatile flyer that adds a lot. If you don't want to forgeworld the model (too expensive for me too) you can use a Valk with magnets for the weapons. Seems acceptable to most standards. Keep in mind you will want to play this massively aggressively for it to work. I used it back in 5th Ed against my friend (not Elysians but airborne guard) and he was amazed he had never seen guard used like that. You lose 90% of your force because its so bloody but man is it fun to play. Good Luck.

 

I was thinking about vultures as well. I play a very aggressive Space Wolves drop pod army, so I'm used to the concept. I was going to proxy my tauroxes as tauroses, and I do plan on converting my Valkyries to vendettas, and then I'll build vultures, and then some Valkyries as sky talons and build more Valkyries. 

[march10k]

 

I think they're misguided idealists...

 

I meant the rules, not the faction. But do go on...

 

 

I know...it was a joke...

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

 

I think they're misguided idealists...

 

I meant the rules, not the faction. But do go on...

 

 

I know...it was a joke...

 

 

I don't know much about the Elysians, or their Drop Troops, so I was actually half serious,  I'm curious to know more.

[Quicksilver117]

I honestly think if you were going to play Militarum Tempestus and Forge World is allowed, that Elysians would be the better choice. You get more troops on table and you get vendettas (at a reduced price over AM which is even better than MT's not at all option) along with access to the subjectively better AM orders list. You also get combat drop which is seriously useful for getting flyers on the table (which is why I think you should throw at least 1 valkyrie in there as he is guaranteed to come in turn 1). The major issue I see is that you do not have Move Through Cover which means grav-chuting out of your valkyrie or (12 person carrying) Vendettas is decidedly riskier. Also, you don't have hellguns which does matter when facing misguided members of the The Glorious Emperor's Adeptus Astartes. This is all from a major neophyte, but having access to a Homing Beacon or 2 on the table could negate the loss of MTC and I really can't see any other reason to take Scions over Elysian Veterans.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I was thinking along the same lines, I was going to also proxy a couple of my dreadnoughts as drop sentinels with MM (until I get a couple of sentinels) to try them out. As far as forgeworld being allowed, I get to make the rules, since we play at my apartment. 

 

As for lacking the AP3 guns on the vets, yeah, it is a bit of a loss, but I run 3PGs and a HF in my vet squads (elysians can do this which is awesome), so there's a lot of stuff that will be dying, especially Tau and Necrons. My group is getting together next weekend for a day of gaming. It'll be kind of a one day campaign and should be a lot of fun. All of my armies will be present (I have Necrons, Tau, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and MT/Elysians) 

 

I will be using my Homing beacons to full effect, worry not. 

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I think the Elysian concept is really cool but not competitive. Where are the current rules? I can't keep track of all the books and editions and data slates.

[hendrik]

i've used the elysian D99 armylist one one occasion so far. and as others have said they are basicly a glass hammer. now while they do have some benefits over the stormtroopers they do have some downgrades as well, such as no carapace armour. I suggest you proxy them a bit to see what you like most. I think of them as a fun  add-on regiment to my cadian 812th armoured regiment that can catch my opponent off guard, but for competitive purposes i would still recommend our codex.

you could maybe sculpt some abandoned gravchutes on some bases to assign which units are gravtroops in your regiment before you truely commit yourself to reconverting all your troops

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The vets can take carapace armor. They're just like regular codex vets, except they have deep strike and cost a bit more, and some of the doctrines are slightly different. Forward Observers can get infiltrate and Grenadiers still gives them carapace armor. I don't care if it's not competitive, I don't play in tournaments so it really doesn't matter. Mostly they'll be used as allies just as I would be using them as tempestus. I'm really just interested in using the rules, for different ways of playing the army. 

[Quicksilver117]

The elysians themselves are in IA:3 v2 The Taros Campaign. That is their full dex. There is an update detailing D-99 and how to use it in IA:4 v2 The Anphelion Project. Unfortunately, in my eyes D-99 is not worthwhile as they do not get Vendettas at all (Militarum Tempestus Style) but are better everywhere else(not saving them from the lack of Vendettas). Maybe if you were playing at a points level high enough to run Elysians and D-99 then it would be good to go, but depending on the total Flyer Count (it is literally going to be 5+ Valkyrie/Vendetta hulls) that can be expensive fast, especially since you are going to want to bring CADs of both to take advantage of the fact that you are a Deep Striking Troops army and Objective Secured is like the primary reason to play a Deep Striking Troops army.

 

TL;DR I am not a pro-gamer or even a good gamer above is my opinions only.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I haven't really looked at the D-99 detachment, the regular rules looked like the way I'd want to go, seeing as I wanted a small, elite, airborne, force for my guard. I eventually want to back this up with tanks, from the steel host, some heavy hitters from the Rampart detachment, and eventually a couple baneblades chassis. I want most of my offensive infantry to be drop troops, while the meager infantry of my armored column to be support weapons.

[Quicksilver117]

That would be an army to see on the table. Rampart is the Bullgryns with great special rules right? Also, does the steel host gain objective secured or is that the IA2: Battlegroup?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The rampart actually doesn't grant any special rules, it's just a mobile ADL. As for the steel host, I don't think they have obsec.

[Quicksilver117]

Roger that. Any luck taking the drop troops down in the hot zone?

 

Also, as far as the Elysian's Fluff goes, They are from a star system with very heavy space ops. There are also close enough to some space based webway portals that the Deldar Raid them on a lot of occasions too. Thus, they spend a ton of time doing boarding ops in their PDF. When the time comes for the tithe, The Elysians are a fairly trained up force prior to Induction in to the guard. That is the spark's notes version.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Cool. So I get my elite army of guardsmen.

[Quicksilver117]

Oh yeah,

I have been theorycrafting a lot and trying to find a good anvil for the drop troop hammer. With the List I made at 1850 I just wouldn't quite get a steel host in so what I think right now.

 

1: Imperial Knight(Not really my cup of Tanna Tea, it just feels dirty) is probably the absolute best, providing long range smash and melee death while being the greatest DISTRACTION CARNIFEX possible.

 

2:Inquisitorial Melee Deathball. we are talking all slots full in a Land Raider(which is the actual hitch in my mind since Chimera's are not Assault vehicles) Crusadersx3, Death Cult Assassins x7, Ministorum Priest w/melee weapon of choice, psyker(roll on div pray for misfortune so much rending) cheap and brutal right up till you buy a land raider which dumps on the concept of cost efficiency. If Chimeras were assault capable this would be my favorite by far because I already bring Inquisitors for servo skulls and I never have been a big fan of more than 1 ally.

 

3:Steel Host or its Obsec little brother IA:2 Armored battle group, because who doesn't want obsec leman russ tanks. The issue I see here is someone deepstriking or outflanking a melee unit on you. Dreadnoughts come to mind. Without that concern though(or with the addition of the Rampart Detachment- Im not playing a 3k game but hey, people do.) this is not a bad way to do things as Beasthunter shells and Executioners(That were made before the tech-priests on Ryza got totally hammered one night and burned the computer core with the plans to proper plasma heat sinks-BLAM Heresy! The Omnissiah does not make mistakes, "to err is human, to perfect is Machine") with obsec are pretty dang destructive.

 

4:Insert Space marine based anvil of choice. This can be pretty much any of the good melee, or short range shooty tough guys that the Emperor has blessed with the precious geneseed of his primarchs. Top choices in my mind include: Brethren of the Fell Handed Formation from Space Wolves(so yes, this is basically an Imperial Knight broken in to 3 pieces yet somehow still feels less dirty, BLAM Heresy Imperial knights are the blessed chosen of the emperor, unbelievers should have been shot in the second paragraph), Company of the Great Wolf Deatchment wielding Harald, Iron Priests on Dogs(THUNDER WOLVES you heretic fool), and fenrisian wolves, Blood Angels assault marines(like whatever way you so choose), or Bikes(Chapter Tactics to taste with a pinch of storm shield) 

 

 

My thoughts on these specific things over say assault terminators(GLORIOUS HEROES YOU STUPID HERETIC) is that as things appear these days, everyone, their brother, and their grandma has AP2 so it would be better in my eyes to use bigger waves rather than tougher waves, but eventually you will need to close with the enemy and Elysians would prefer not to do that dirty work alone as I see it.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The 1850 Elysian list I have uses my knight, FO/Grenadier Vets, and tauroses as the anchor, and first turn my valk will come on, dropping pie plates, and HB shots, and melta Stormtroopers, and two melta drop sentinels will come down. Second turn my vendetta comes in and so do my sentries, to take out whatever armor is left. Hopefully it works.