new to grey knights, could use some tips

[Dusktiger]

so within the next couple of weeks, i'll be buying a grey knight army off a friend to deny it from any of the more craven "conversioners" in the area that always make me cringe with their "good ideas".

 

problem is, i havent played the army before, so dont really know what i should do to get it playable for 7th; it was made near the end of 5th, back when mordrak and his ghost knights were a thing, so the collection is going to have around 26 or so terminators, a pair of armless dreadnoughts that never got their FW autocannon arms ordered, and a dreadknight with sword and heavy incinerator. 

 

the termies are a mix of power weapons, with 6 psycannons and 2 incinerators.  there's also a draigo, and a terminator libby converted with a nemesis power sword.

 

i'd like to more or less keep to the general idea of the army and use most of what im buying from him, but if there's a couple things i really need to buy in order for it to work, without adding in allies, i'd like to hear thoughts from those playing the codex in 7th.

 

i also dont mind the idea of allying in the inquisition book, as i have a converted malleus terminator inquisitor built, and im looking around for enough servo skulls to make 3 for him.  maybe even add in an assassin? i hear those are good?  no idea which to take though, never looked into them before and no one plays them here. 

 

the only experience locally with inquisition is one guy who'd spam coteaz with death cult henchmen squad in a LR allied to necrons in 6th, so that soured everyone on inquisition lists. hoping to make them popular by having them make an appearance that doesnt involve coteaz.

 

 

[Kraytirous]

Hey dusktiger! Welcome to Titan.

 

I'll start off by giving you a quick run-down of some of the things you'll have an easy time against and a hard time against with your list.

 

First, the good news.

 

You're going to be awesome at killing daemons, other Marines (doubly so marines with the Daemon special rule!), aggressive psychic armies (Psychic Scream spam, I'm looking at you), you're going to have a good time against aggressive melee armies without Land Raiders (foot-slogging orks and Tyrandis, for example) and Monstrous Creatures other than Dreadknights.

 

Now the bad news...

 

Your army is going to have a rough time dealing with Land Raiders, because your best answer to the Land Raider is getting into melee with it with strength 10 Thunderhammers (Hammerhand+Thunderhammers) or your Dreadknight/ Dreadnought, which puts you in range of its payload! You're going to have a rough time dealing with 2+ armor saves, and you're going to have a tough time dealing with any grav guns, plasma guns, plasma cannons, walkers with Dreadnought close-combat weapons and Dreadknights.

 

The difference between 7th and 5th is mostly semantics for Gray Knights. You're going to dominate the psychic phase almost guaranteed and you're going to have a rough time with exactly one type of army: a turtle list. The weakness your army faces in 7th is that it can't get close without Deep Striking, which gives your opponent a shot at, well, shooting you before you charge! Reliability is the name of the game.

 

My recommendation is to buy yourself a Stormraven, a Land Raider or grab yourself a Vindicare assassin.

 

The Stormraven and Land Raider serve as a fantastic answer to a few of your problems: the anti-tank you sorely lack outside of melee in the form of multi-meltas/ lascannons/ thunderstrike missiles/ etc, a way to transport your melee elite into melee very safely sans getting shot, and the Stormraven in particular is fantastic at giving you the upper hand at killing a Monstrous Creature or Walker by using the rarely noticed Concussive special rule on the Thunderstrike Missile. Soon as that wounds (hitting on a 3+ and being AP2 means you're likely to), the target is I1, meaning they go simo with your Thunderhammers and won't be wiping your squad out before they can swing, which is why Monstrous Creatures/ Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons are a problem.

 

The Vindicare provides an easy objective camper with relatively good survivability (decent cover-save and all that), with the ability to do a fair bit of damage to enemy tanks, heavy weapon/ special weapon/ icon bearers, and while simultaneously also doing a great job of manning the Comms Relay at your Aegis Defenseline (see Codex: Strongholds) to give your army a +1 to reserves, making your Deep-Strike heavy force more reliable.

[jeffersonian000]

@Dusktiger, welcome to the fold! You pick a great army with Grey Knights, we are a power house at the moment, with a small selection of very strong units that examplify an Elite Army.

 

Of the units mentioned, I would recommend buying a second DreadKnight. The DK is our most point optimized unit for what you get, and having two is a necessity for your core army.

 

As to the current weapons load on your models, don't worry, our weapons are all good in their own way, even if some are slightly better than others. As you grow in to the army, you will find which weapon mixes work best for you. While the forum speaks on specific "best builds", it us mostly from a meta gaming stand point, with arguments over how to best squeeze the codex for optimal use. However, on your table versus your opponent, you comfort level with your models and list are key to success, not what anyone here says. We'll give you the best advice we can, as well as the current meta arguments. My best advice to you is to stick to your current models' load out, and see via game play which changes you should shoot for in future purchases.

 

On Dreadnoughts, unless you have a plan for them. As they are unfinished, I would recommend shelving them for now, unitl you see a need they might fill.

 

On allies, the Inquisition are still good for the use you mentioned. A TDA Inquisitor camping on a Comm Relay, with strategically placed Skulls, is a huge boon to a teleporting Alpha Strike army like the a Grey Knights. So go for it!

 

SJ

[Dusktiger]

That was something I was wondering about, because I've only been finding tips and build ideas that all state the core should consist of 3 DK and build around those. Usually with personal teleports and heavy incinerators on each. I spotted a box or two last week at the LGS and was surprised the box was so small looking for a MC figure. For some reason I expected more of a Land speeder size box than a tactical squad box. Think I might go buy one this weekend to start building.

[jeffersonian000]

The core GK army is 1 Librarian, 10 GKT, 2 NDK. The rest is filled to personal taste.

 

SJ

[Emicus]

As for servo skulls, you get 1 skull pr box of terminators, is your friend selling the leftover bits too? All you need to do is drill a hole in the bottom, paperclip, base, done.

​Alternatively forge world sell some, if you are getting the cannons from them anyway.

[Dusktiger]

that i'm not sure; he was selling a few different armies, and i know some were coming with extra bits; ill have to wait and see what's all in the set. 

 

i did get my hands on a dreadknight today however, and have been assembling it.  since im also converting it, it's only half way there.  but once its ready for paint, i'll post what i did with it.

[Dusktiger]

so here's the dreadknight:

 

[jeffersonian000]

Very sheek. Me like.

 

SJ

[Rurik the blessed]

Pretty good!!

it's just like mine...

 

[Emicus]

That's a neat conversion dusktiger!

[Arufel87]

How do you guys convert that!?

[Dusktiger]

here's an update on him:

[nimrod451]

Those Dreadknights are so cool - someone tell me how you did the conversions!

 

I think the only requirements for Grey Knights are really Terminators and Dread knights.  GK are rough since they have a pretty low model count. I personally love interceptors with falchions but..they're really expensive and..die. 

[Dusktiger]

1. start assembly as normal for the legs.  when you make the hip section, cut off the extension that becomes the operators belt, and smooth it out to be level with the targeter on the right hip. also trim off the pads where the operators feet would normally sit.
2. continue torso assembly. 
3. repeat removal of waist assembly on torso piece, making it flush.
4. carefully remove the side panels of a librarian dreadnought front panel, leaving the center and the librarian force cables.
5. mount this onto the torso.
6. take the cabling details from the operator harness, and attach these flanking the piece you just added.
7. trim the terminator helmet to fit, and glue into place.
8. weapons are trimmed and mounted onto the shoulders where the hydraulics would mount for the arms.
9. choose a banner you like, and mount on the waist to hide where the operator legs would have been.

thats about it.

[Dread]

Just not a lot of words to say but GREAT JOB!!

[Dusktiger]

so i finally got around to getting the worst-painted ones of the lot stripped down to where i can paint them. here's the model list of exactly what i got:

Unlimited Pts - Codex: Grey Knights Roster

3 Apothecaries with Nemesis Force Halberds

5 Terminators with Nemesis Force Halberds and Psycannons
3 Terminators with Nemesis Falchions
3 Terminators with Nemesis Force Swords
2 Terminators with Nemesis Force Swords and Incinerators

1 Terminator with Nemesis Daemonhammer

1 Justicar with Nemesis Force Halberd
3 Justicars with Nemesis Daemonhammers

1 Kaldor Draigo
1 Librarian with Nemesis Force Sword
1 Nemesis Dreadknight with Personal Teleporter, Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator

1 Nemesis Dreadknight with Personal Teleporter, Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon

Total Roster Cost as-is: 1799
 

so i have a decent start here from the looks of it.  along with a fair chunk of points i dont need either; dropping the 3 apothecaries and Draigo means i gain back 476 pts, putting me down to 1323pts.

 

this is what I'm going to rebuild the terminators into:

 

3 squads, each with the following:

1 Justicar with Demonhammer

1 Terminator with a Halberd and Psycannon

1 Terminator, basic

2 Terminators, Falchions.

 

this'll give me 3 squads @205pts each.  along with the librarian and 2 NDK, I'm looking at 1140pts as my core.  i was thinking of adding some of the ForgeWorld stuff to the list, such as a Doomglaive Dreadnought. maybe two.

 

any advice?

[zeruslord]

I'd go big or go home with melee weapons - if it's worth 20 points to get a hammer, a halberd, and two sets of falchions, it should be worth 26 points to get a hammer and four sets of falchions or even 32 points for two hammers and three falchions.   If you aren't casting Hammerhand, two halberds are slightly better (the average number of wounds is a twelfth higher against T4) than falchions and a force sword.  If you are using hammerhand, a falchion and a sword is better unless the enemy is T6 or above.

[Dusktiger]

well, that's a nice idea and all, but seeing as how this is a used army bought pre-built and i have limited options on bits to replace what i can, this is what im stuck with.  it would be a different matter if i was theory listing before assembling NIB squads.  So the core list isnt really going to change much, apart from moving around models from one squad to another.

 

i would however, be able to take suggestions on units to add to the core list in order to bring it up to a larger point total to play.

[Valerian]

First off, your Dreadknight conversion is awesome, and I would recommend that you make him your Warlord - he'll definitely fit the part! Love him.

 

 

this is what I'm going to rebuild the terminators into:

 

3 squads, each with the following:

1 Justicar with Demonhammer

1 Terminator with a Halberd and Psycannon

1 Terminator, basic

2 Terminators, Falchions.

 

this'll give me 3 squads @205pts each.  along with the librarian and 2 NDK, I'm looking at 1140pts as my core.  i was thinking of adding some of the ForgeWorld stuff to the list, such as a Doomglaive Dreadnought. maybe two.

 

any advice?

That's a great start, and now you just want to season to taste. Each of your three Terminator Squads has a Hammer and a Psycannon, which meets your high-strength close combat and your ranged firepower needs. You're also keeping points costs at a reasonable level by not going overboard with upgrades. Stick the one basic Terminator at the front of each squad to absorb the first Wounding Hit, and hope he can tank (meat-shield) for you a bit.

 

I recommend you seriously consider the Nemesis Strike Force faction-specific Detachment. It has a great benefit for a Deep Strike-based force.

 

I'm not familiar with much of the FW stuff, especially the Doomglaive Dreadnought, so nothing to add there. Many people like to add in a squad Interceptors to their core. With their Personal Teleporters they pair very nicely with Dreadknights and Terminators. Just add an Incinerator to each combat squad for some nice Burninating against vulnerable and isolated units, and they can help pick apart support units while your Terminators take on the adversary's core, and the Dreadknights do your heavy lifting.

 

Have fun with your new army!

 

V

[Dusktiger]

hmm, i hadnt thought of the interceptors.  how would you feel about this then?  i'm posting the doomglaive's stats in more detail to let you know what it has.

 

1579 Pts - Codex: Grey Knights & Codex: Inquisition

Nemesis Strike Force, (24#, 1475 pts)

 

Librarian, 120 pts, Nemesis Force Sword; The Fury of Deimos

 

Terminator Squad, 205 pts
      1 Justicar, Nemesis Daemonhammer
      1 Terminator, Nemesis Force Halberd; Psycannon
      2 Terminators, Nemesis Falchions
      1 Terminator, Nemesis Force Sword

 

Terminator Squad, 205 pts
      1 Justicar, Nemesis Daemonhammer
      1 Terminator, Nemesis Force Halberd; Psycannon
      2 Terminators, Nemesis Falchions
      1 Terminator, Nemesis Force Sword

 

Terminator Squad, 205 pts
      1 Justicar, Nemesis Daemonhammer
      1 Terminator, Nemesis Force Halberd; Psycannon
      2 Terminators, Nemesis Falchions
      1 Terminator, Nemesis Force Sword

 

Doomglaive Dreadnought (IA) 190pts, Incinerator; Nemesis Doomglaive*; Psycannon; Preferred Enemy (Daemons); Psychic Pilot (Mastery Level 1); Reinforced Aegis; Venerable

*Str x2; AP 2; Melee, Force, Daemonbane

 

Interceptor Squad, 135 pts
      1 Justicar
      1 Grey Knight, Incinerator
      3 Grey Knights

 

Nemesis Dreadknight 225pts, Personal Teleporter; Heavy Psycannon; Heavy Incinerator; Nemesis Greatsword; Warlord

 

Nemesis Dreadknight 190pts, Personal Teleporter; Heavy Incinerator; Nemesis Greatsword

Inquisitorial Detachment [inq], (1#, 104 pts)

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator Armour (HQ), Servo-skulls x3; Psyker (Mastery 1)

 

[Valerian]

What source, exactly, is that Doomglaive guy in? I want to look him up myself. At first glance, however, he's not going to do anything for you that a Dreadknight won't do much, much better. He's also pretty expensive, clocking in at 190, and will be vulnerable to the usual stuff that destroys AV12. He also has, I assume, the poor mobility of a regular Dreadnought, and you've got no delivery mechanism for him. Yeah, I think you'd probably want to just leave him out and get yourself another combat squad worth of Interceptors and maybe give your Inquisitor a Psycannon and Hammer with the leftover points.

 

Best,

 

V

[Dusktiger]

Yea he is pricy. You'll find him in imperial armour volume 2: 2nd edition.

[Aethernitas]

What source, exactly, is that Doomglaive guy in? I want to look him up myself. At first glance, however, he's not going to do anything for you that a Dreadknight won't do much, much better. He's also pretty expensive, clocking in at 190, and will be vulnerable to the usual stuff that destroys AV12. He also has, I assume, the poor mobility of a regular Dreadnought, and you've got no delivery mechanism for him. Yeah, I think you'd probably want to just leave him out and get yourself another combat squad worth of Interceptors and maybe give your Inquisitor a Psycannon and Hammer with the leftover points.

 

The Doomglaive pattern dreadnought is in the Imperial Armour 2 2nd edition. It's rules are disfunctional though but the ITC made the effort to update them so if you play by the ITC ruleset you can field it as venerable dreadnought +15 points and you have to switch all weapons for a psycannon and a doomglaive which is a drednough cc-weapons with daemonbane and force. Still pretty expensive but very stylish and it works with the new codex.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The Doomglaive would be great if it wasn't so insanely overpriced. Venerable really doesn't mean anything these days, you die to HP loss and the re-roll to damage results never matters. I'd much rather we got an AV13 variant, like, I dunno, every other Marine faction? It's pretty annoying we pay a premium for the pilot to be a psyker, and it has zero impact on the Dreadnought (no longer has a force weapon unless you shell out for Doomglaive, 'Sanctuary' doesn't do enough on its own because it's just a 6+ etc). IA2 is a smorgasbord for Marines, but for us it's like 3 entries and none of them really work as intended.