3++ Dreadnoughts, how do you fight them?

[Fatespinner]

I have a friend who plays Space Wolves and has taken a shine to running his army with 3-4 Dreadnoughts equipped with Blizzard Shields, giving them a 3++ invuln save and making them incredibly hard to kill, especially in close combat.  Now, obviously the answer is to shower them with massive amounts of S7+ firepower, but given the fact that they spend a lot of time advancing through cover and generally being difficult to flank, what is the best way to take on this threat if you are a particularly assault-heavy army (daemons)?

[Slips]

Isn't the Blizzard Shield only front arc 3++?

 

If so just drop pod some melta guns behind them and kaboom. Or Melta Bombs in the Butt, etc. you get the point. If its not front arc only (I'm pretty sure it is) then forcing saves and doing "Death by a Thousand Cuts" would be the way to go.

 

Since you're playing Daemons, you'd have to use Daemon Engines to their backsides to deal with them unless you ally in Meltacide Terminators in 3 man squads.

 

Either kill them ASAP or tie them up for as long as possible and score as many objectives as you can during that time.

 

And if you think 3-4 is bad, consider that in 30k, using the Standard FoC, you can field 12+ Contemptor Dreadnoughts + 3 Deredeo Dreads in Heavy Support :p

[Komrk]

Well you can't melta bomb him in the butt unless you immobilize him.

[Slips]

Well you can't melta bomb him in the butt unless you immobilize him.

Yeah...

[Axagoras]

shoot them with s5+ in the rear lol...

[Slips]

Another option is to take R&H From IA:13 Quad Mortar Rapier Batteries that, if they're like the Imperial Equivalent - which they should, come with 4 S8 Sunder (re-roll Failed armor pen) shots per mortar with up to 3 taken per slot.

 

Max out on them. Drown them in 12 S8 Sunder Shots (per slot) and watch them fail those 3++ saves under weight of fire.

[Jacinda]

particularly assault-heavy army (daemons)?

 

Guys, I think you are missing a key piece of the question ...

[ShinyRhino]

You can do one of two things: lock them down with cheap, gribbly units or punch their faces off with your Monsters. You say "assault heavy", so does that mean pure Khorne? If you don't go pure Khorne, you can try to get a unit of Plaguebearers on him. Nurgle weapons have Touch of Rust, which glance automatically on a 6. A large unit can likely tie up a Dread for several turns, allowing you to do your thing as needed. The trick with Nurgle is actually getting to grips with him, since you're so slow.

The big deamons like GUOs, KoS, and Bloodthirsters can try to outduel a Dread, though again they're largely going for glances unless you take weaponry that ups their strength. Don't rely on the single Smash attack, as the save will probably be made anyways.

Don't forget about Nurgle and Slaaanesh psychic powers as well. Reducing the Dread's WS and I with Miasama of Pestilence can help you stay alive longer, while Acquiescence will force the Dread to attack at I1 (-5 to Init).

You can also try a Soul Grinder, but only if the Dread doesn't have a powerfist. Doesn't the version with the shield get stuck with an Axe, capping him at S7? If so, he can only glance your Soul Grinder. Hit the Dread with Acquiescence and then change it with the Grinder. You'll swing first with your S10/AP2 attacks, while the Dread goes last with his S7 attacks.

 

There isn't a single-unit solution to walkers with a save like that for your army. Gotta work in tandem, and mono-god builds will struggle with that.

[Axagoras]

Another option is to take R&H From IA:13 Quad Mortar Rapier Batteries that, if they're like the Imperial Equivalent - which they should, come with 4 S8 Sunder (re-roll Failed armor pen) shots per mortar with up to 3 taken per slot.

 

Max out on them. Drown them in 12 S8 Sunder Shots (per slot) and watch them fail those 3++ saves under weight of fire.

theres the rapider which is a ordnance lascannon or a quad mortar which is anti infantry, nothing uses that profile.

 

 

particularly assault-heavy army (daemons)?

 

Guys, I think you are missing a key piece of the question ...

 

Well the true answer is you dont, the 3++ save and av 12 means that your MCs dont do anything and your infantry do nothing either. The only "assault" unit that might be able to do something is screamers but thats digging deep with lamprey bite. Just because its a deamon army doesnt mean it doesnt have psychic shooting, tzeentch heralds have a primaris power thats 2d6 s5 shots, better odds then wasting a DP or a bloodthirster vs it

[Vykryl]

Doesn't the version with the shield get stuck with an Axe, capping him at S7? If so, he can only glance your Soul Grinder. Hit the Dread with Acquiescence and then change it with the Grinder. You'll swing first with your S10/AP2 attacks, while the Dread goes last with his S7 attacks.

 

 

The axe is strength x2, the shield is strength user, both ap2.

[Fatespinner]

You can do one of two things: lock them down with cheap, gribbly units or punch their faces off with your Monsters. You say "assault heavy", so does that mean pure Khorne?

[snip]

There isn't a single-unit solution to walkers with a save like that for your army. Gotta work in tandem, and mono-god builds will struggle with that.

 

My army isn't mono-god, but primarily Slaanesh and Nurgle.  I have tried to tarpit with Plaguebearers, but generally lose far too many of them before they can make it to assault even when fielding them in max-sized 20-man blobs.  I do tend to run a Soul Grinder or two, and have fielded the Slaanesh variant with a Warpsword before but was somewhat underwhelmed by its capabilities (though I have not faced the 3++ dreads with it yet).  Usually I field my Grinder(s) as Nurgle and take Phelgm Bombardment in order to deal with infantry swarms.

 

I do have a large number of Pink Horrors that I haven't used lately, but I'm not sure that going Tzeentch-heavy and counting on getting shooty powers is going to yield much.  I have Fateweaver as well that I could take some Pyromancy powers on and maybe a Screamerstar with a shooty herald on a disc too.

I think I need to bulldoze it with hits.  Perhaps allying CSM and taking a Maulerfiend or two?  If I run a Tzeentch list with daemonology, I could get cursed earth and give the Maulers a 4++ of their own.  Not quite as good, but they're dishing out considerably more hits than the dread in close combat.  If I'm bringing CSM into the mix, I might just be better off with a Tri-las Predator or a squad of multi-melta Oblits...

[GreyCrow]

If the shield is indeed front arc, I would say try to shoot from the side/rear arcs.

 

If that isn't an option, don't daemons have access to some melee weapons with Armour Bane ? How would a Bloodthirster perform ? Finally, I think I remember Nurgle had some psychic powers great for taking out vehicles (or was it Tzeench ?)

 

In any case, sometimes, it might be better to try to avoid them altogether. Play around them as if they were a nasty piece of terrain, try to string them along elsewhere.

[Fatespinner]

(Most) Nurgle daemons have melee weapons which automatically score a glancing hit against vehicles on a roll of 6, so I guess maybe flooding it with Plaguebearers might be a decent option.  The problem is that Plaguebearers are so slow it's often difficult to get them into assault to begin with (S&P, can't run).  A Bloodthirster would be risky since, while its multiple high-strength, low AP attacks should result in at least 1-2 penetrating hits per turn, if the 3++ saves the dread and it gets a chance to swing back, you're probably going to lose the Bloodthirster (or at least suffer a few wounds you'd rather avoid).  Since a Bloodthirster is 250 pts base, that's not a very good trade for a ~120 pt dreadnought.

[shandwen]

Any demon army other than nurgle could just ignore it and stay out of charge range.