Zhukov's GK thread including Battle Reports

[Zhukov]

I'm really exhausted after 3 hours of sleep and 9 hours of 40k. 3-0 after day 1 ;)

[Bartali]

Congrats ! Looking forward to some bat reps

[Prot]

You beat the dreaded Necron -Wraith-star-Orikan combo? 

 

Funny I had a friend playing in a tournament and he was facing a dual formation of the Canoptek Harvest... full size x 2 in a CAD, and he did come out victorious and I knew he could.

 

You can never account for player skill, and proper objective play in these things. 

 

I'm looking forward to hearing how day 1 went! I know these 3 game per day tournaments are hard.... I'm usually mentally fried (I mean more than I normally am!)

[Zhukov]

General tournament overview

 

Welp, unfortunately I could not do the unthinkable and actually win the whole thing by going 5-0, I lost both games on day 2 and those players actually ended up taking 1st and 2nd place. I didn't mind at all, I had a really good time overall (besides if winning the event was my motivation I would have brought something else lol). Almost all of the good Belgium players were there afaik and quite some good players from the Netherlands as well. Laughed a lot and had a couple of drinks on the saturday evening which was fun.

 

Overall I am satisfied with going 3-2 with this list, especially because going 3-0 on the 1st day is pretty good! I actually had a good shot at going 4-0, which would have provided me with a better matchup in the 5th game as well... which I'll speak about later the battlereports.

 

Tables were overall okay. Missions were overall pretty good (modified Maelstrom, Eternal War and kill-points in each one of them, just with variations). Lot of good players, there were only 24 players in total, but all the top Belgium players were there so that ensured some good games!

 

So, before I will write some battlereports later I will tell what most people want to know: What about the list I played with? Well, it's as I expected. It is solid enough to be able to win quite some games with, as it has a lot of ObSec, 3 Dreadknights to punch stuff and a 10 man terminator unit + psyker to hold the middle of the board. It's surprisingly hard to play completely correctly though I noticed, the Strike Squads have to be played perfectly to make them somewhat perform decently. Hard to play basicly, which isn't the same as being bad in this case, although they are kinda bad too as we know. I arguably messed up game 4 and 5 which I will show later, although I don't think it would have mattered for the result. The list is arguably too weak to win a 5+ game tournament. Me not playing it perfectly caused me to not even being able to make a decent game out of it in my 2 losses, so that's on me. Overall I'd qualify it as 'viable' (capable of winning 1 day tournaments with a little bit of luck). For a pure Grey Knights list it is fine, although playing an NSF next to a CAD for 5 Dreadknights is overall a bit stronger I feel, depending on the rulespack and your capabilities of avoiding certain matchups. The list I played is more stable.

 

The individual units of the list:

 

Librarian: Fine, I'd like him to be lvl 3 though. He sent himself + 3 Terminators straight to the warp 1 time by perrils 1 followed by double 6. Which was funny.

Dreadknights: Excellent. They won 2 out of 3 games by themselves pretty much. Before the tournament I wondered whether having shooting weapons on them is worth it still and I'm still not sure. I think I'm going to try them with just a Teleporter and a Greatsword, it frees up a lot of points and it makes them relatively more defensive by costing 55 points less each.

Terminators: Hit or miss, which I knew and which is why I dislike terminators in general. If you play against lists which are forced to play a midranged or closeranged game, then they really shine. They are excellent at holding midfield, provide decent firesupport in that case and hit pretty hard in assault. Thing is, they are slow and die rather easily, which is a deadly combination against mobile long ranged armies. Frankly, the reason I play with these guys is this: Librarian wears terminator armour. When I'm going to ally something, I will probably look for a unit to place my Librarian in, so that I can play without Terminators.

Strike Squads: Hit or miss, but a little less so than terminators. Overall more survivable and mobile due to the Rhino, just almost no damage output if they are forced to move, which happens quite a lot. Overpriced, but functioning basicly. Terminators are just inherently bad at the moment (in my opinion!) while not being overpriced if that makes some sense. 4 Strike Squads is too much, 2 can achieve the same thing almost as well. Maybe 2 bigger squads, but dunno yet.

 

Ideally I am looking for a list to play with 2x Strike Squad in Rhino, Librarian, 3x Dreadknight and another detachment/formation next to it. I only play lists which fit with me though, which support my vision of the game so it's going to be a tough search! For now I'm going to fiddle around a bit, playing some games for fun with Purifiers & Stormravens and/or an Imperial Knight.

 

 

Battlereports to follow this week!

[Bartali]

 

Ideally I am looking for a list to play with 2x Strike Squad in Rhino, Librarian, 3x Dreadknight and another detachment/formation next to it. I only play lists which fit with me though, which support my vision of the game so it's going to be a tough search! For now I'm going to fiddle around a bit, playing some games for fun with Purifiers & Stormravens and/or an Imperial Knight.

 

I suppose the obvious answer would be some form of SM detachment with the GK Libby (+/- Draigo) slotting in with Centurions. But I'm sure you've already thought about that one.

 

Re GK Terminators. Ob sec on a Terminator is nice, but not so good when they don't have mobility. You can sort of get around it by fielding multiples so you're not caught out too much by Maelstrom style missions.

It depends if you think sinking points into Terminators is a good thing though....

 

Re Dreadkinghts. It's an interesting topic, running gunless. I wonder how many times on average a Dreadkinght tends to fire before getting into assault - is the points cost worth it (especially if going double gun) if you're shooting twice a game on average ? I have a feeling it's still probably worth taking the guns, as they're the best ones GK can get without a platform to put them elsewhere.

 

Congrats on your wins again, looking forward to the reports on those tricksy 4th and 5th games

[Prot]

That's still a fine showing.

 

I have been very vocal about my issues with terminators. My suggested fixes are typically not around points but around survivability. I think when they 'awarded' the 2+ save to Terminators they still identify that as a strong factor dating back to about 1989. I think they (GW) still believe that 2+ has the same significance and clearly it does not.

 

My "terminators should be Wraiths" post was supposed to push for a 'reanimation protocol' style of survival for the Termies to counter balance against the plethora of AP2.

 

That said, I still love terminators. I have a bad habit of featuring them in nearly every army I own to some degree..... I do this for aesthetics though, and realize it usually puts me in the hole for competitive reasons.

 

The NDK is just so heavily leaned on, it would be nice to have a 'difficult choice' there rather than the question of "How can I make my army up entirely of NDKs?". lol

 

I'm glad to see you doing well with the Strikes in Rhino's. As I see the Grav/marines/ and even Skyhammer formation I think Rhino's will be forced to make a return to some degree.... just to be a protective layer against all this alpha stuff going on. If only the Strikes were a bit cheaper.

 

P.S.

my Libbie always has Curias of sacrifice (SP?) . I cannot count how many times FNP saved a perils, or I 'grew' back the wound. I find it absolutely essential considering I perils constantly.

[Zhukov]

I suppose the obvious answer would be some form of SM detachment with the GK Libby (+/- Draigo) slotting in with Centurions. But I'm sure you've already thought about that one.

 

Re Dreadkinghts. It's an interesting topic, running gunless. I wonder how many times on average a Dreadkinght tends to fire before getting into assault - is the points cost worth it (especially if going double gun) if you're shooting twice a game on average ? I have a feeling it's still probably worth taking the guns, as they're the best ones GK can get without a platform to put them elsewhere.

That's indeed the obvious answer, which is why I want to avoid it at all costs. I always try to play with somewhat original lists.

 

It is certainly worth taking the guns, I'm just wondering if not taking the guns is also good and I think it can be. Only if you can do something good with the points you save though. I'm gonna try and see what I can come up with.

 

That's still a fine showing.

 

my Libbie always has Curias of sacrifice (SP?) . I cannot count how many times FNP saved a perils, or I 'grew' back the wound. I find it absolutely essential considering I perils constantly.

To be honest, yes it is a really good showing. If you analyse it: I played on table 1 and 2 at the 2nd day of the most prestigious tournament of Belgium, with a single CAD Grey Knights list including 4x a unit deemed complete garbage by some vocal players on this board. Not only that, I had a real shot at going 5-0 and straight-up winning the tournament. I didn't only play with this list to prove a point though, it's been for me a very fast way of seeing how weak I can make a list before it starts getting not competitive. While this list isn't really competitive, I now know for myself that I can win tournaments with Grey Knights making up a large part of my army. I guess I could say that it sets a benchmark for me to which I can compare future lists?

 

My Libby had the Cuirass as well (it's an awesome upgrade, I'd always put it on my GK Warlord if possible), but that it did not help against "Dragged into the Warp" followed by a failed leadership test :P

[Happy-inquisitor]

I am looking forwards to your battle reports, sounds like a solid performance from a single codex list that "the internet" would call non competitive .

 

Depending on what you want from the squad that goes with the Libby - have you considered an inquisition chimera with a warband heavy on Crusaders. They can be a bit of a defensive option sometimes but as a cost effective look out sir meat shield they are hard to beat.

[Zhukov]

GRAND BELGIUM OPEN BATTLEREPORT: GAME 1

Against: Necrons. Zhandrek, Orikan, 20 Warriors + Ghost Ark, 10 Immortals + Nightscythe, 2x 6 Wraiths; whipcoils, 1x5 Tomblades; upgrades, 1x3 Heavy Destroyers, 1x Triarch Stalker.

Mission: Eternal War: Big Guns Never Tire (5 objectives, 3 VP each, Maelstrom of War: Tactical Escalation (modified)

Deployment: Hammer and Anvil.

Traits + Powers: +1 to seize/re-roll reserves. Prescience and 2 other powers from divination which I did not use I think.

Situation after deployment:

Thoughts at this point: He deployed first. He made some crucial mistakes here. The Wraiths on his left are too far away, so I deployed my 3 Dreadknights in front of the other Wraiths, Heavy Destroyers and Stalker. Plan is to kill the Heavy Destroyers and Stalker first, as that's his ranged Ap1/2. If he sends his other Wraith squad to help out, I'll be free to move up and take objectives + maelstrom with my Strikes, while my Terminators will bail out Dreadknights.

Also: Orikan and Zhandrek are joined to the big 20 man Warrior unit, probably to prevent them from getting killed easily by Dreadknights, but I believe this to be a mistake as well, he should have joined Orikan at least to a Wraith unit, possibly Zhandrek as well.

I seize him by rolling a 5, yay Warlord trait. Don't worry, karma is real and I will pay for this seize later on in the tournament.

First couple of turns: 2 Dreadknights Shunt move forward towards his Stalker/Destroyers. Terminators move up as well, Rhinos a bit. With my shooting I focus on the Wraith squad close to the Stalker/Destroyers, while accepting the return fire will probably kill a Dreadknight. I think I bring down the squad to 2 Wraiths, 1 wounded. Now on his turn he indeed kills a Dreadknight and tries to tie up a Dreadknight with the small Wraith squad; but overwatch + S10 in combat kills them off. His other Wraiths + Tomblades move up towards my Rhinos.

I proceed to kill the Heavy Destroyers and Stalker with my 2 Dreadknights, while doing 2 or 3 wounds to the other Wraith squads with all my now disembarked Strikes on the right of the field. Not wanting to get caught up in combat after combat with my Strikes against the Wraiths, I send my Terminators back towards the Strikes for assistence. His turn he kills most rhinos with the Wraiths/Tomb Blades/Nightscythe.

My Dreadknights kill off some Tomb Blades with shooting and my Terminator squad manages to charge the 6 man Wraith unit, killing 5 due to Prescience, Force and Hammerhand. Take that you silly Wraiths, bow before the might of Titan, or something like that.

At this point the situation looks like this:

At this point the game is pretty lost for him obviously. My Dreadknights decide it is time to pay Zhandrek and Co. a visit. I challenge and he accepts with Empowered Orikan. Orikan who is not the Warlord and thus does not have Eternal War. Orikan my dear friend, meet the Nemesis Greatsword. He dies. The 2 Dreadknights continue to murder their way through the whole unit which takes them the rest of the game. In the meanwhile I've been taken Maelstrom objectives during the whole game, kill the remaining Wraith, Tomblades and Ghost Ark while blowing off a weapon of the Nightscythe. Game ends turn 6 or 7 and he has 3 Immortals + damaged Night Scythe remaining.

Result: Victory for Grey Knights.

Thoughts after the game: Necrons is a fair matchup for Grey Knights and in this case playing better resulted in winning by a large margin. This game was won by deployment alone already, seizing him did not matter that much, I would have won easily with Maelstrom and Objectives still, just would have lost another Dreadknight I guess.

Things which people could take from this game: Deployment is crucial, always. In this case my whole army did what it was supposed to do, every unit fulfilled his role. In his case the Big Warrior + Character unit did practicly nothing the whole game. (Also because I did not move up my Strikes far, they were comfortable hanging around objectives the whole game pretty much) One of his Wraiths unit being too far away from the other meant he could not assist that flank and as a result I focused on it.

[Zhukov]

GRAND BELGIUM OPEN BATTLEREPORT: GAME 2

Against: Ravenwing + Imperial Knight. Samuel on Jetbike, command squad on bikes with apothecary and banner of devastation. 5 man Black Knight unit. 5 squads or so of ravenwing, 3 MM attack bikes, Imperial Knight Errant.

Mission: Eternal War: The Emperor's Will (4 VP each), Maelstrom of War: Contact lost.

Deployment: Dawn of War.

Traits + Powers: Infiltrate 3 units + Warlord. Prescience, Forewarning, Counter Attack.

Situation after deployment (including infiltrate + scout moves):

Thoughts at this point: I got the first turn and will be able to kill quite some Bikes, while putting a lot of pressure with my 3 Dreadknights. Terminator squad can move up midfield, granting me boardcontrol in order to hold a lot of objectives, letting me generate Mealstrom cards and thus taking a lead on Maelstrom.

First couple of turns: So he fails to seize and I shunt up 1 roughly towards where the tape meassure is. Left Dreadknight and right Dreadknight move up 12". Terminators move up a bit and will be able to fire to full effect on his command squad. The idea is to kill as many bikes as possible! Now, I try to cast Sanctuary on the Dreadknight which shunted up with 3 dice. Perrils. 1. I roll 11 on my leadership test. First Blood for him and I literally have to play this game with 1625 points and First Blood against me. Not good lol. It's okay, I'm sharp as a knife at this point.

What happens is that I'm killing a lot of Bikes in all my turns due to stormbolters and psycannons. The Strike Squads in this game overall do a ton of damage. He kills the 2nd Dreadknight with Plasma Talons. His Imperial Knight is forced to kill Rhinos and Strike Squads, which take a lot of time, I basicly feed him small units while killing Bikes in return. Due to my map control I indeed manage to take a lead on Maelstrom. This is the situation after a couple of turns:

As you can see it is quite the slaughter. Problem is however that I will not be able to hold my own objective, the Imperial Knight + ObSec bikes will be able to hold it quite easily. However, he was forced to move most of his forces to the right of the board, only 2 Attack Bikes and 1 little Bike squad are at the left (not visible on the picture). I decide to seize the slaughter and suddenly sway all my forces to the left, going for 'his' objective, which is situated in the North West corner. Due to my lead in Maelstrom, I will win the game and there is nothing he can do about it at this point.

Result: Victory for the Grey Knights!

Thoughts after the game: Starting the game with a dead Dreadknight made things quite hard, even though this not so detailed Battlereport might not show it. The Terminators and Strike Squads did a real number on his Bikes during the whole game. I chose not to try and kill the Imperial Knight, focusing on Maelstrom instead to come ahead. Some people on this forum whine about Maelstrom, but if you take the time and actually play it on tournaments (where they take the most random things out of it), then you'll see it isn't unbalanced at all. In every game I played, board control simply gives you more Maelstrom points. Are there cases where you could be extremely unlucky and only draw the wrong ones? I guess, but that chance is so low it is not much different from the chance of failing all your psychic tests constantly or sending your Dreadknight into the Warp

Things which people can take from this game: Sometimes bad things happen, like the Dreadknight which died due to perrils turn 1. In this case you have to adapt to the situation, my strategy shifted towards playing full on Maelstrom while killing off as many bikes as possible and ignoring his Imperial Knight. When you see a unit the question isn't always "how can I kill it?", but sometimes it is "do I have to kill it?". Never forget about how to win the game during the actual game either, it is not just something you think of at the start of the game and at the end of the game. In this case during the game I realised I pulled far enough ahead on Maelstrom points that I decided to do a 180 degree chance in strategy: I stopped fighting and trying to hold my own objective and simply tried and grab the easier objective for me in the North West, so we tied on Primary while I won Secondary (Maelstrom). Baited (the Imperial Knight towards my Strike Marines and my objectives) and outsmarted (going for his objective in the end instead) basicly.

[Zhukov]

GRAND BELGIUM OPEN BATTLEREPORT: GAME 3

Against: Orks. 3x Warboss on bike, 2x Painboy, 4x 30 Orks with Nob, 1x Gretchin, 1x traktor cannons, 1x 5 'plasma cannon' Artillery, 1x Deffkoptas.

Mission: Eternal War: Crusade (4 objective, 3 VP each), Maelstrom of War: Cleanse and Control.

Deployment: Vanguard Strike.

Traits + Powers: No idea which Warlord Trait I had, psychic powers from Pyromancy (will come back to this later).

Situation after deployment:

Thoughts at this point: This matchup is mine to win, however it is harder than it might look like. It is very easy to get into a bad combat, in which case a couple of Powerklaws and a mass of attacks make quick work of my limited amount of expensive models. He can then continue to pull of charges if a combat ends in mine turn. Another issue is time: Even though technicly it is both players their responsibility to play fast enough to be able to play out the game completely, it is quite likely he will take a lot of time due to deploying and moving around roughly 140 models. I will have to play fast as the longer the game goes on, the better it is for me: Orks crumble lategame due to diminished squad sizes at that point (which makes them break and lose Nobs/Warbosses etc). At the same time patience is required, you want to force him to put himself into a bad position as you beat him at range. Force him to commit to you and charge him instead of him charging you!

First couple of turns: He went first and as you can see at the picture, I basicly concentrated my forces, so I can bear with almost my whole force on a part of his army, taking control of the middle of the board and thus being in reach of most objectives (most of the objectives being placed by me around the middle line of the board). I putted 2 Dreadknights in front of his unit where his Warlord is in, so I'll probably get Slay the Warlord. He moves up. In my turn I charge 1 Dreadknight into his Warlord unit. I purposefully didn't shoot much at that unit, to keep it big so his Powerklaws would not be able to retaliate his first turn and it would be impossible to charge another squad in that combat. That combat basicly goes on for most of the game, me challenging and he either denying or losing a Nob to let his Warboss hit. I charge another Dreadknight into that combat and in the end I kill the whole squad + Warlord Boss + Painboy.

In the middle of the board in the meanwhile I stay out of range of his Plasma Cannons, while shooting at other Ork units, staying out of range of charges the first couple of turns (by utilizing the 24" range on stormbolters and psycannons). Then I decide to sacrifice 1 Dreadknight: I charge a big mob of boyz in the middle of the board. In his turn he countercharges into that combat with 2 Warbosses + Mob + Painboy. He obviously kills the Dreadknight. That is completely fine for me because now it is time for my Terminators to charge in with Hammerhand and Force Activated. They murder the whole unit over the course of 2 or round of combat.

This is the situation just before that combat has ended:

The game is completely 1 sided afer this combat, as I effectively managed to kill his heavy hitters (the Warbosses), his ObSec units (2x30 Orks) while having avoided his dangerous shooting for the whole game (5 S8 plasma cannons). It seems easy and it is once you know how to simply win this game.

Result: Victory for the Grey Knights!

Thoughts after the game: Dreadknights are really good against Orks, because they can challenge Klaws out, forcing him to sacrifice a character or me choosing a model which wont be able to hit. His huge footprint compared to my small footprint of the army also makes you able to dictate the game. Playing fast made me able to play through the whole game, winning by an enormous margin (44 vp's to 4 lol). Enjoyable oppenent, Ork players are always to be honest, good player as well (almost everybody was a more than decent player in this tournament), but this matchup was clearly mine to win and I did.

Strikes did fine too this game btw, they killed Orks, Deffkoptas and Gretchin (:P) while taking objectives. Good matchup for them.

Things which people and I as well can take from this game: Pyromancy sucks. Not going to pick it again, I got perfect powers from it against Orks(!) (the "cleansing flame" one and the Large Blast ingore cover one), but it is still not worth it. It simply doesn't do enough damage, re-rolls from prescience will do more in general and is easier to apply.

Be able to play fast, it is a necessary skill in my opinion for tournament play, both for yourself and to not piss off oppenents (nothing more infuriating than losing a game because you didn't go past turn 4).

Keep your head cool, 140 models can look like an overwhelming prospect, but it's a matter of numbers and stats still: Analyse it and try to find a way to use their numbers in favour of you, know how combat works perfectly, including pile in moves and making it so that certain models can't hit. (Had I killed half of the 1st Boyz Mob with shooting before charging in, then his Warboss and Nob would have been able to hit while his painboy would have accepted my challenge, which would have caused me to lose my Dreadknight for example. Had he placed his charcters more in front, then I would have been able to kill them with shooting, either way it could be exploited).

[Zhukov]

GRAND BELGIUM OPEN BATTLEREPORT: GAME 4

Against: Eldar. 2x Farseer on Jetbike, 4x 5 and 2x4 Jetbikes with Scatter Laser, 2x Hemlock Wraithfighter, Avatar of Khaine, 2x2 D-Cannons Support Battery, Avatar of Khaine, Skyshield fortification.

Mission: Eternal War: The Scouring, Maelstrom of War: Spoils of War.

Deployment: Vanguard Strike.

Traits + Powers: Infiltrate + Prescience + Psychic Shriek for me, +1 to seize + reserve re-rolls and a bunch of Eldar powers for him.

Situation after deployment:

Thoughts at this point: I choose to go first and infiltrated agressively, taking the chance of him to seize on a 5+. There was a straight up 1/3 chance I would lose the game, while I was pretty sure I would easily win if he did not succeed to seize: I would be able to kill 10+ jetbikes on turn 1 and probably at least the same amount the turn after, largely crippling his army. My Rhinos + GK's would have been able to grab most objectives afterwards, while losing my Dreadknights + Terminators against his army. I would have 2 full as well with 20% of his army (the Hemlocks) being in reserve. Makes sense right? No, it doesn't, I suck, continue reading and I tell you exactly what went wrong here in case it isn't clear yet.

The whole game: He seizes me by rolling a 5 and it's over. Little point in telling you what exactly happened. To sum it up: He kills 1 Dreadknight by a rolling a 6 on the D-chart, puts 2 wounds with scatter lasers on another and kills 4 or so Terminators. I proceed to send my Libarian + 3 Terminators straight into the warp by again rolling perrils 1 followed by a failed Leadership test in my turn. I let myself get tabled slowly after this, no point in wasting his or mine energy.

Thoughts after the game: I was mostly sad that I didn't make a game of it, my oppenent was a 4 time ETC attendant and overall a great player and one who I would have loved to have a good game against. I was stupid for letting the game depend on a single dice roll, it's a terrible strategy and a strategy which I always tell others not to do (putting yourself in a position where you can lose on a single d6 or 2d6 basicly).

Why did I? Mostly because I felt like crap this day, 2 nights of very little sleep and the mental exhaustion of the previous day had taken quite a toll on me, I did not feel concentrated at all and didn't feel like playing an intensive game. What I should have done and what I would have done if I was capable of playing well? I should have deployed normally, staying out of range of his D-Cannons for hopefully the whole game and possibly let him go first (to have the last turn in order to grab objectives). The terrain was really good for me, lot of Line of Sight blocking pieces and I had a lot of objectives on my side. I don't know if I would have won playing a game of hide and seek as he still had the 2 Hemlocks and nearly 30 Scatter Jetbikes to shoot at me, but it would have been a game at least. There would have been options and room to make plays and for him to make mistakes.

Now don't get me wrong: Not being capable of bringing my best in this game isn't an excuse, it's an explaination and one for which I'm taking full responsiblity: Being able to give your best also on the 2nd day of a tournament is a skill, one necessary to have and one which I clearly need to work on.

Things which people and I as well can take from this game: Make sure you are always ready to give your best. Make sure you get enough sleep, proper hydration and food, enough time to clear your mind. Potentially play less concentrated in 1 of your games on day 1. (I could have saved some energy in the 1st and 3rd game for example as I won those by enormous margins). Don't be stupid and play on a single D6 like I did here, no matter how attractive it might seem. Only time when I would advice for it is when you are sure you would otherwise lose the game, which was not the case here I believe.

So no, I do not blaim this loss on Strenght D and Scatter Laser Jetbikes being overpowered or on me getting seized on, nor my army being underpowered. Just to be clear: This game is purely on me failing as a player and I know better. In case you wonder, no sorry, I stay extremely friendly and laugh a lot also when losing, which is a thing you can also take from this game: Take a loss like a man, see where you went wrong and try to improve, while staying nice to your oppenent!

[Zhukov]

GRAND BELGIUM OPEN BATTLEREPORT: GAME 5

Against: Tau. Tank Commander + Buff Commander + Suits + marker drones, Fire Cadre (2x3 Broadsides with Monster Hunter/Tank Hunter and 1x Riptide), 1x Ethereal, 1x Earth Caste Riptide, 1x Kroot, 1x FW's in Devilfish, 1x sniper drones.

Mission: Eternal War: Crusade (4 objectives, 3 VP each), Maelstrom of War: Contact lost.

Deployment: Hammer and Anvil.

Traits + Psychic powers: Terrify, Shrouding and Psychic Shriek, re-roll reserve rolls and +1 to seize.

Situation after deployment:

Thoughts at this point: I had no thoughts lol. I literally don't know what I was thinking, because it was entirely clear that after this deployment I would not stand a chance. What are those Strike Squads and Terminators going to do? Try to hid and hope they survive long enough to score objectives? Not going to happen against that list or at least not after having them deployed like this. This is terrible. My oppenent is the best Tau player of the Netherlands and he actually won the last Dutch championship with pretty much this list. Needless to say, he's good, although I played and won against him before.

The whole game: I let him go first in a desperate attempt to have the last turn to better grab objectives? I mean, what is he even going to grab objectives with? I felt so confused at this point. Maybe I'm too harsh on myself, but this was worse in a way than the previous game, I didn't even have a plan to win here lol.

Anyways, I get tabled slowly without me putting up much of a fight. I Shunted the Dreadknights forward and hoped for the best, all of them were dead by turn 3. (he killed 2 rhinos and a couple of terminators turn 1, which was the correct decision).

Thoughts after the game: Nothing, I couldn't see what I should have done, it felt like a lost matchup and I made it worse, although I felt it would not have mattered. My oppenent (I know him pretty well, nice guy) told me the same, it's my list, no chance (combined with Hammer and Anvil, pretty tough against Tau).

However, when I drove back home I suddenly realised what I should have done and what would have made this game winnable (not won, winnable!): I should have deepstriked all of my Strike Squads and Terminators (combat squadded), Rhinos in reserve, just deploying the 3 Dreadknights a bit back and letting him go first. I would have wasted pretty much 2 turns of his shooting (he would have put a couple of wounds at a Dreadknight maybe), after which almost all of my reserves would have come in turn 2 (re-rolls from warlord trait), combined with 3 Dreadknights shunting foward: That's almost all of my army in his face, while it would have been his turn 3 after that! My rhinos would have been free to grab objectives while all my infantry and MC's would have been threatening with charges and firing at his units.

Now that would been a fun and close game. I did not see it however and apparantly it was not so obvious as my oppenent did not see it either. Not sure if I didn't see it because I was tired or because of my inexperience with this army, normally choosing the right strategy is one of my strongest point and the reason I often manage to win with suboptimal armies: I play them to almost their full potential. Blegh. Doesn't matter for the result, but it does matter for the list: It is stronger in a way than expected and even supposedly bad matchups still leave you with options to win! So, same thing here as with the previous loss: It's my own fault, I did not play well enough.

Things which people and I as well can take from this game: Always keep your eyes open for alternative strategies to play and win a game! Many games are winnable even though it doesn't look like it at first sight. Also, same as game 4: Make sure you are sharp, as I was not able to think out of the box here, which caused me to lose without a chance. Oh and also: As long as you make mistakes, don't put losses on the army or list you play, try to take responsibility for them and learn from your mistakes.

[Happy-inquisitor]

GRAND BELGIUM OPEN BATTLEREPORT: GAME 5

Against: Tau. Tank Commander + Buff Commander + Suits + marker drones, Fire Cadre (2x3 Broadsides with Monster Hunter/Tank Hunter and 1x Riptide), 1x Ethereal, 1x Earth Caste Riptide, 1x Kroot, 1x FW's in Devilfish, 1x sniper drones.

Mission: Eternal War: Crusade (4 objectives, 3 VP each), Maelstrom of War: Contact lost.

Deployment: Hammer and Anvil.

Traits + Psychic powers: Terrify, Shrouding and Psychic Shriek, re-roll reserve rolls and +1 to seize.

Situation after deployment:

Thoughts at this point: I had no thoughts lol. I literally don't know what I was thinking, because it was entirely clear that after this deployment I would not stand a chance. What are those Strike Squads and Terminators going to do? Try to hid and hope they survive long enough to score objectives? Not going to happen against that list or at least not after having them deployed like this. This is terrible. My oppenent is the best Tau player of the Netherlands and he actually won the last Dutch championship with pretty much this list. Needless to say, he's good, although I played and won against him before.

The whole game: I let him go first in a desperate attempt to have the last turn to better grab objectives? I mean, what is he even going to grab objectives with? I felt so confused at this point. Maybe I'm too harsh on myself, but this was worse in a way than the previous game, I didn't even have a plan to win here lol.

Anyways, I get tabled slowly without me putting up much of a fight. I Shunted the Dreadknights forward and hoped for the best, all of them were dead by turn 3. (he killed 2 rhinos and a couple of terminators turn 1, which was the correct decision).

Thoughts after the game: Nothing, I couldn't see what I should have done, it felt like a lost matchup and I made it worse, although I felt it would not have mattered. My oppenent (I know him pretty well, nice guy) told me the same, it's my list, no chance (combined with Hammer and Anvil, pretty tough against Tau).

However, when I drove back home I suddenly realised what I should have done and what would have made this game winnable (not won, winnable!): I should have deepstriked all of my Strike Squads and Terminators (combat squadded), Rhinos in reserve, just deploying the 3 Dreadknights a bit back and letting him go first. I would have wasted pretty much 2 turns of his shooting (he would have put a couple of wounds at a Dreadknight maybe), after which almost all of my reserves would have come in turn 2 (re-rolls from warlord trait), combined with 3 Dreadknights shunting foward: That's almost all of my army in his face, while it would have been his turn 3 after that! My rhinos would have been free to grab objectives while all my infantry and MC's would have been threatening with charges and firing at his units.

Now that would been a fun and close game. I did not see it however and apparantly it was not so obvious as my oppenent did not see it either. Not sure if I didn't see it because I was tired or because of my inexperience with this army, normally choosing the right strategy is one of my strongest point and the reason I often manage to win with suboptimal armies: I play them to almost their full potential. Blegh. Doesn't matter for the result, but it does matter for the list: It is stronger in a way than expected and even supposedly bad matchups still leave you with options to win! So, same thing here as with the previous loss: It's my own fault, I did not play well enough.

Things which people and I as well can take from this game: Always keep your eyes open for alternative strategies to play and win a game! Many games are winnable even though it doesn't look like it at first sight. Also, same as game 4: Make sure you are sharp, as I was not able to think out of the box here, which caused me to lose without a chance. Oh and also: As long as you make mistakes, don't put losses on the army or list you play, try to take responsibility for them and learn from your mistakes.

I feel for you brother. When you look at a combination of a brutal match-up and a deployment that hurts and then your mind goes blank.

It has happened to me once and luckily it was a battle-brothers tournament and my partner (my son) kept a clearer head than me and spotted a way to slam the door shut on our opponents scoring VP so long as we could just barely avoid getting tabled. Having to deploy when you just have not seen any plan for the game yet is hard. If I were to take a lesson from it then perhaps it would that if my mind is empty then leave the table as empty as I dare and hope something comes to me before my reserves come in.

[Bartali]

Thanks for the bat reps Zhukov, especially games 4 and 5. Always interesting reading when someone looses and they analyze where you went wrong - gives me ideas for my own games

[Prot]

Of the first 2 Reports I read, I actually think -where- the Necron player put his stuff was a bigger problem than not putting Zahndrekh in the Wraith squad. Just when I look at that game from the Necron player's perspective, I think I know what he was thinking....

 

He planned for first turn, but you stole it. Otherwise, he would have moved up his Wraiths and been prepared to tie up your NDK(s) with the Wraiths. Zahndrekh would have killed that strategy he's so slow.

 

Set up that way Zahndrekh is the ultimate tank. I think he thought you were going to pew pew his big warrior squad to death.

 

I think his placement of Destroyers was quite poor too.

 

I think when people see NDK's Shunt, they usually realize instantly that they're in trouble. There's no way he needed to be that aggressive against you in deployment. You have no shooting advantage, and as a Necron player myself I can tell you priority #1 for me would have been tarpitting your NDKs in with Wraiths. I've spent entire games tied up with them. (A lot of people play Grey Knights in my area!)

 

Maybe some people would say the Necron player wasn't the best tactician, he just took the 'power' units, but I think this shows you knew what you were doing, and that GK are one of the better knives to cut through that metal.

 

It's so funny to me how some people here reacted to Necrons and as we see 3-4 codexes later, they're already fading. (No ObSec in the Decurion is a huge problem in tournaments.)

 

Good job Zhukov! Way to represent.

 

I'm looking forward to reading the rest. ( I did read the Dark Angel one.... that looked like a 'Meet you in the middle' game with tons of quick, decisive turns of killing. Sorry about the Perils, but while you're in the warp, I'm sure you'll see many of my Vortexed Libbies floating around aimlessly there!

[Zhukov]

The French and Belgium ETC team practised against eachother past weekend and I practised with them. They requested me to play an ETC list of somebody, so I picked a Draigostar list:

 

Libby; lvl 3

5 Strike Marines; incinerator

5 Strike Marines

Kaldor Draigo

Dreadknight; teleporter, psycannon, psilencer, sword

Dreadknight; teleporter, psycannon, incinerator, sword

Dreadknight; teleporter, psycannon, incinerator, sword

Tigurius

5 Scouts

4 Centurions; omniscope (old Marine codex, new one isn't allowed for this years ETC, doesn't matter much or anything in this case)

 

GAME 1: Versus 2x Destroyer Cult Decurion Necrons.

We figured this would be pointless if I go first, as I rolled infiltrate for my Warlord trait, so he went first to see if that's better. Slightly. He spreads out so I can't refuse flank deploy, but I still negated 4 out of 9 Heavy Gauss shots. He troubles killing the Dreadknights (takes him the whole game basicly), while they and the Draigostar remove units every turn. I end up winning rather easily on Maelstrom, while we tie on Eternal War due to some crucial bad rolls, a position which I should not have put myself into though. Game was basicly 1 sided and proofs for me once again that many Necron lists have severe issues with Grey Knights, the more when Draigostar is included into the equation.

 

GAME 2: Versus 3 Flyrants + Daemons (Fateweaver, Screamerstar) + Skyshield fortification.

Tough game. Can't touch his army at all. Grey Knights generally are *not* good against Daemons, no matter what some people might think. Competitive Daemon lists have way too many psychic dice and deny Banishment often on a 3+, so you can't touch his screamerstar. They can be tied up by Dreadknights though if you choose so. He opts to let me go first to see how he has to react to it. I deploy. He null deploys (places some Spores and Nurgling bases to prevent me tabling him Turn 1). I give him the first turn. Whole game practicly nothing happens, I have the last turn and plan on winning primary. We literally sit back for pretty much 4 turns, before he slightly commits (he summons some units but doesn't impact the game much besides me being unable to contest an objective which they have swarmed).

I win the game by virtue of firstblood and having 1 objective more in the end.

Incredibly lame matchup and even though I love competitive 40k play, I can't help but not liking to play games like this and I dislike complete nonsense armies like the one he played (Skyshield + 3 Flyrants + Screamerstar... I mean, what?). No offense to my oppenent though, he's a great and fun guy.

 

GAME 3: Versus Eldar (primary Inquisition with 1 inquisitor + 2 servo skulls actually but that's just to be able to play a 2nd Eldar army in their team). Windrider Host (20 or so scatterbikes), Seer Council, 2 Hemlock Wraithfighter, Baharoth (Fearless and Hit&Run for his Seer Council, Seer Council consisting in practise of 3 Farseer and 7 Warlocks).

 

I roll infiltrate again and go first. He has to reserve a lot of units to prevent me from simply blowing a large part of his army off the table. He can't reserve his Council because they might not show up till turn 4, which would make him lose the game instantly. I can't infiltrate the Centstar close enough, but I can put them in a position where they can shoot whatever comes from reserve unless he turboboosts them. I still get to alphastrike his Council with 3 Dreadknights their shooting, severly crippling them and winning the game pretty much off that right away. Easy game in the end. Bit of a stupid matchup as I'm pretty sure he will beat me easily when he goes first instead, as he will have his powers up before I can't kill him (2+ save, Fortune etc to protect his council) while he also doesn't have to reserve his Jetbikes or at least will have them on the table earlier. Good game to have a feel for this matchup. 

 

GAME 4: Versus Necrons CAD: 30(!) Praetorians, Orikan + Zhandrek, 2x6 Wraiths, 2x5 Immortals, 1x3 Tomblades.

 

I love Necrons and the fact that they can field at least 5 completely different and competitive builds. Anyways, this should have been an easy win for me, which is why he wanted to play against me. Grav murders his praetorians and even does a number on Wraiths. I kill his most of his Praetorians rather easily and end up trading 1 Dreadknight in order to finish off a Wraith squad (pretty bad rolls there). Invisible Dreadknight ties up his Deathstar. I charge another 1 in it at some point. Horrible rolling over the course of the game here. We're looking in the end at something like 10 or 11 rounds of combat for the Dreadknights. Probably roughly 35 Attacks? Including Master Crafted that comes down to at least 5 Dead Wraiths on average. I killed a single Wraith instead lol. To make matters worse: Draigo gates over (alone) to his objective, being held by 5 Immortals. They kill him by rapid firing. Yes, that's 10 S5 shots at BS4 killing Draigo lol!

 

Oh well, I ended up losing the game by a small margin. I made quite some mistakes as well and should have won even with my terrible luck, it's okay, I'm pretty sure the matchup still favours me either way.

 

Thoughts: It's fun to be able to play against some of the best players in Europe on a regular basis now, I didn't have that luxury in the Netherlands. This weekend gave me a chance to try out Draigostar (first time I played it) and it still has a lot of good matchups we concluded. I do believe it's reliant on psychic powers too much, which I dislike, but with a bit of luck you can win a lot with it. Personally I don't think I'll play it as I find it rather boring, but I can't deny the strenght of it.

 

 

Don't know what I'm going to do with Grey Knights next, if anything. I converted a Draigo model and I'm pretty happy ith how it looks, so that's nice. (Metal Brother Captain model + Different arms with Sword/SB on one and stormshield on the other, finecast Librarian "book-banner" on his back.)

 

I might play a GK CAD with allied Aspect Host (3x Dark Reapers in Wave Serpents), but I'm not allowed to discuss that here unfortunately.

 

Edit:

 

Actually, going over the forum rules:

In a Battle-forged army, all other detachments must be from factions covered by the B&C or must share a Battle Brothers or Allies of Convenience level of alliance with the Warlord's Faction in order to be discussed. If any of the detachments do not share a Battle Brothers or Allies of Convenience level of alliance with the Warlord's Faction, the army may not be discussed.

Eldar are allies of convenience, so it's okay to discuss this it seems. I assumed it wouldn't be allowed because I remember Darius stating we can only discuss imperial armies in the allies thread of GK.

[Prot]

Nice little batreps there Zhukov.

 

I remember posting about the limitations of the Grey Knights after it felt like I had tried everything in the army that worked (without allying). I was wrong at the time and am now doing the Rhino Strike thing too, but I feel that too is a little limited.

 

I still like the feeling of Grey Knights though as they seem to just give me enough options to give most armies a run for their money. But I do like the psychic phase that Grey Knights present and if I get shut down (typically Eldar) it does suck.

 

I find your games vs Necrons interesting. I do like Necrons personally, and own a massive, painted army, but I do find them less awesome as time passes and my experience with them let's my Grey Knights have a better understanding of them... that being said, I think it's their volume of firepower that annoys my Grey Knights.

 

Too bad about Draigo, but that sounds like my typical experience and why I have always shied away from the mega-character. (But I do like him far better than Calgar.)

 

You seem to see a lot of Necrons there, which is good, but you do seem to beat them far more often than I think most people would guess, and the lists seem fairly potent. (Though many of them are quite 'fancy' whereas I seem to get a lot of mileage out of very basic Necrons.)

 

I don't get to see a lot of daemons around here, and I personally can't play Draigo Star. Like you I have a fundamental problem in combining stuff like that just to win.... (I've played against Skyshield Nids though. What a ridiculous concept. lol)

 

Thanks for the continuing batreps. 

[the jeske]

Very good. After the list build up phase, training is the most important thing to do.And playing against odd lists[like the nids+demons or the nids+necron lists] is a good thing, well sort of a, it can simulate playing against two lists at the same time. Specialy when the lists are very resilient or very killy.

 

Also try out other ways of deployment. You said you missed the out of the box deep striking play, imo if you tested deep striking more, it would be easier to think about it.