Boom Stick Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I have been looking at my list and it would fit into a regular CAD or into the Baal strike force. This will be my first game with the new codex and was wondering what people's thoughts were. Is objective secured better then red thirst? Does it matter who you are playing? I play against necrons who with their new codex I would assume they would not be objective secured due to taking the formation that adds 1 to their reanimation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 It really depends on the army. A troops hevy army, Ob Sec is worth it. A more close combat oriented army, its not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3989556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood & Thunder Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 If use this as a rule of thumb. If you are taking more than the minimum troop tax take cad. If not take bsf. If you are taking more troops choices usually you are not focusing on cc unless of course you are spamming scouts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3989679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 It really depends on the army. A troops hevy army, Ob Sec is worth it. A more close combat oriented army, its not. Listen to the man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3989835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 If your game is big enough and you are worried about Obj Sec, you can always just add in a Combined Arms Detachment with a single HQ and two Troops to get your Obj Sec control dudes on top of your BSF :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3989903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 If your game is big enough and you are worried about Obj Sec, you can always just add in a Combined Arms Detachment with a single HQ and two Troops to get your Obj Sec control dudes on top of your BSF In my experience, its really not worth it to go CAD at all unless you have a fair amount of troops. If you only have the minimum amount, your opponent can just kill them and it will all have been for nought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3989917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 The more I play 7th edition the more I realise the game is all about 'Ob Sec'. I have seen armies totally dominate the game only to be 'trumped' by last turn shenanigans by Eldar Obsec Jetbikes or Dark Elf Obsec Raiders. The only way to reliably fight these shenanigans is to have a fair amount of troops of your own that you can use to 'bring them to battle' and force them to actually engage your army and displace you from objectives. I have recently written an 'only' troops Codex: Space Marine army that I plan to run soon. This is because Black Templars can still take ObSec Land Raiders, which we can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3989956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I am a fan of running a CAD along with a BSF. X3 HQs is a nice lil bonus as another SP @ 60 pts won't break the bank and an extra FA, HS and Elite slot which is actually pretty handy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Depends on your opponent. If you don't know your opponent's army in advance, the the advice posted above applies. If you know your opponent's army in advance, then there are certain armies in which +1 init won't help much (Tau, Necrons, etc). In those cases, go CAD. If you're facing an opponent with majority init 4, then the +1 init is huge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 X3 HQs is a nice lil bonus as another SP @ 60 pts won't break the bank and an extra FA, HS and Elite slot which is actually pretty handy. Rule of thumb is that HQs are rather points-innefficient. I mean, you could get a SP with JP for 75 pts, or you could almost get another 5 Assault Marines for an extra 10 pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I agree that points spent on HQs are not usually the best investment. In most of my armies I usually run a cheap buffing HQ and spend the points on more bodies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I think SPs are somewhat of an exception as they save 2-3 models with fnp and pay for themselves. Having said that, that assumes a valid candidate unit. Dante being a LoW takes pressure off the HQ slots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Even with 6 full tactical squads, bsf owns cad every day in every way. OBJ sec isn't that important. If someone contests your objective, tear his bleeping throat out! Emperors throne you're a son of sanguinious! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian of the Rage Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Depends on your opponent. If you don't know your opponent's army in advance, the the advice posted above applies. If you know your opponent's army in advance, then there are certain armies in which +1 init won't help much (Tau, Necrons, etc). In those cases, go CAD. If you're facing an opponent with majority init 4, then the +1 init is huge. I second this but also point out the majority of I5 armies are finesse based and their mechanics are often built on the concept of striking befor you get the chance too. While casualties will be on both sides, such armies (like eldar) are not usually set up for attrition; thus it will be to your advantage there too. Cheers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Even with 6 full tactical squads, bsf owns cad every day in every way. OBJ sec isn't that important. If someone contests your objective, tear his bleeping throat out! Emperors throne you're a son of sanguinious! As noted, there's times when +1 Init will be entirely pointless, so at a strict minimum, there are times where CAD will be 100% more useful than BSF. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood & Thunder Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Even with 6 full tactical squads, bsf owns cad every day in every way. OBJ sec isn't that important. If someone contests your objective, tear his bleeping throat out! Emperors throne you're a son of sanguinious! As noted, there's times when +1 Init will be entirely pointless, so at a strict minimum, there are times where CAD will be 100% more useful than BSF. I have to agree where cad can be more useful. Such as late game fast units that can contest objectives and cost you points. Of course kill points, I would run bsf all day Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3990770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 CAD also grants rerolls on the BRB Warlord traits which can be handy since the BA ones are actually pretty naff on the whole. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3991337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's interesting how you'll hear arguments both for and against Ob Sec, and it seems to depend largely on how much you play scenarios. I believe that the benefits to the CAD are good in a general sense, since 90% of missions will find value in Ob Sec, and the BSF really only helps in terms of pure CC. That said, if you're just filling the Troops slots with Scouts, you're probably not really taking advantage of what CAD can do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3993358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbourg Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 And those min scout squads with ccw do well with the plus one init. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3993515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's interesting how you'll hear arguments both for and against Ob Sec, and it seems to depend largely on how much you play scenarios. I believe that the benefits to the CAD are good in a general sense, since 90% of missions will find value in Ob Sec, and the BSF really only helps in terms of pure CC. That said, if you're just filling the Troops slots with Scouts, you're probably not really taking advantage of what CAD can do. I find that often, people that say CAD isn't good don't build their lists to really make use of ObSec. If you're going to bother with CAD, the majority of your points should be sunk into Troops so that your opponent can't just blast all you ObSec units away before they have a chance to make use of the rule. I find that the main reason why I want to play BSF is that the BA's best units aren't Troops, and also because it allows for a greater variety of units being used in my lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3993562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Then there is the flesh tearers strike force.... If you need a lot of fast attack in your life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305209-to-cad-or-not-to-cad/#findComment-3993619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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