Helbrute viability... again...

[Kaldoth]

So, I know there have been numerous threads on Helbrutes. A lot of people like them, a lot of people hate them, and a lot of people say "meh."  I'm currently building a Death Guard list after a veeeeeeeery long hiatus (3rd/4th edition), and I happened to pick up three Helbrute kits for forty bucks.  Needless to say, I want to field a couple of them.  After the dizzying amount of research I've done, I've basically been left with an "up in the air" kind of feel with these guys. So, I was wondering if anyone would be willing to give me some fresh input as to how well these guys function in a competitive list. I see a few tactically viable options for them, but none of them are without drawbacks.

 

1. Objective sitter with support: Helbrute that babysits a squad of zombies. This ensures a damn difficult time for my opponent taking a back field objective. However, even with just ten zombies and one Helbrute, that's 150 points (Rather, 155 with the Autocannon/PF combo that seems to be popular for troop killing) of my force and two slots that are sitting around doing nothing but waiting to get attacked. I like to make choices in my FoC efficient and tactically sound. I'm wondering if there might be a better, more cost efficient unit or unit combo for camping out in my back field and holding objectives than this. Competitive lists in my local store are usually played at around 1250-1500, so 150 points on something that wont move all game is actually a decent chunk.

 

2. Slow advancing with meat shields: Helbrute stuck in a 30-35 strong swarm of zombies. As I've read, this can go two ways: Fire magnet, or a turn three (at best) assaulting unit. That's pretty self explanatory IMO. Again, no firsthand experience with these guys, but I've heard tales of glorious carnage when Helbrutes get into close combat. But, that's IF they get there, and so far that seems like a big if.

Can anyone give me some advice on these guys, elaborate on what I've read, or offer up some alternative options? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
-Kal

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

If you're interested in Helbrutes paired with Cultists/Zombies, look into the Helcult formation. It pairs a Helbrute with a mob of Cultists/Zombies, giving bonuses to both parties.

Edit: Blood of Kittens has a formation compendium. The gist of the Helcut is that it makes the Helbrute Rage, the Cultists Fearless and lets the Cultists take hits for the 'brute, at the cost of the Helbrute's missed attacks hitting the Cultists.

[Kevlarshark]

If you have 3x brutes try the deep striking formation? It is quite effective for diverting attention from other stuff.

[Trevak Dal]

If you have 3x brutes try the deep striking formation? It is quite effective for diverting attention from other stuff.

 

If you keep the Helbrutes cheap enough (base costs-no upgrades except maybe a Twin Linked Las cannon), it's great.  I say that, because...stuff can go horribly awry when deep striking Big Base guys like Helbrutes (though I love deep striking my Riptides in my Tau army STAND-TO FOR IMMEDIATE REINFORCEMENT-PREPARE FOR TITANFALL

 

I like to run them in pairs sort of like Hunters (from Halo series...I just realized I also tend to do that with Obliterators and Broadsides...huh), then I try to gang up on nastier stuff like Wraith knights if I can.

[totgeboren]

If you have 3x brutes try the deep striking formation? It is quite effective for diverting attention from other stuff.

 

I have used these a few times, most often with plasmacannons and h.flamers (one model is the DV dread, so only a multimelta).

 

It's a gamble to say the least, you have to pass your reserve roll, then you have three big-base models to deep strike with all the scatter and stuff that entails, and then you have to roll once on the crazy table for the entire formation and hope you don't roll a 5 or 6. A 5 or 6 is also reasonably mitigated as long as you deep strike within 12" of an enemy model, since you are still allowed to shoot in that case. If you end up outside of 12" and roll Blood Rage your Dread will have to run, which sucks.

 

On the other hand, when you get a Dread in a good position and roll a 1 or 2 so you get to fire twice, you are looking at a game-changer for not a lot of points. They also get IWnD in that formation, which is something.

 

At least that formation turn Helbrutes from 'bad' to 'ok', so I recommend it if you have 3 anyway. Anything that turns CSM units from 'bad' to 'ok' is appreciated in my book.

 

The big problem with Helbrutes is that they are incredibly fragile, but that problem is more due to the basic rules rather than the Helbrute in particular being bad. The divide between vehicles with saves (inv saves for Walkers or built-in cover saves for everything else) and those without is massive, and low number of hull points means units like Helbrutes will not last long.

 

Think of them as a lone Obliterator/Mutilator hybrid used for suicide Deep Strikes and you won't be as disappointed with them as if you think of them as they are portrayed in the background.

[Kevlarshark]

For me  gamble = good. Mainly because the payoff is so great.  So I am prepared to take the risk

[Khornestar]

Usually 2/3 of my Helbrutes mishap when I use the Mayhem Pack, but that is my fate according to the dice gods. 360* of scatter, and every single time it will take them onto an enemy unit from 9" away!

Simple multi-melta/fist brutes, sometimes with heavy flamers, can be very good.

[BetterOffShred]

I usually take one or two Hellbrutes with a plasma canon in funsies games with buddies.  I really enjoy the models, I enjoy the fluff in a mech heavy army, and honestly they usually do pretty well.   Sure you got plenty of opportunities for everything to go wrong, but that's a running theme with Chaos.  Most people just min/max lists for competition to iron out any random chance that makes Chaos so fun when it all lines up for you perfect.   That being said, when it doesn't work out.. you get hosed usually.  

 

Just my opinion

 

-Brett

[Carrack]

I've had some luck fielding a helbrute in lower point games, like 500-750 points. Mine is armed with the multimelta and heavy flamer. At these lower levels having a unit that can assault and shoot to some degree, as well as deal with infantry and armor, seems more desirable than a specialized unit that does one thing very well. It's also easier to keep the brute alive with cover saves and line of sight when you do not have to keep track of an abundance of enemy anti armor.