Helias_Tancred Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I know we tend to be an assault-y style of army but does anyone run sternguard and if so what has your experience been? To me it seems Sternguard are great for showing up a line, and also great at coming down in pods right in the enemy's face! Load them up with combis, and your first round should really take some stuff out. After they've shot off their combis then its the special ammo which is their true forte. I am planning on buying 2 sternguard boxes and having the option to field a full ten man squad of them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasteslikechicken Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 They have never let me down. They are expensive but they ca do some serious work. Put a librarian in with them for extra spice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 They look good on paper and their special ammo is a good counter to almost anything with a toughness value. Mileage will probably depend on how they are deployed and used. They are pricey but no more survivable than tactical marines. One interesting option I have seen is 5 combi meltas and 5 combi-plas in a pod. They turn they land, they combat squad and roast 2 different targets. Very expensive but not bad for shock and awe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 They have never let me down. They are expensive but they ca do some serious work. Put a librarian in with them for extra spice. Nice. I've never fielded them but Ive been reading up on them a lot lately and it seems they are definitely one of the best units in the game and could even find a solid role in an assault styled army such as ours? Like I said I'm looking to get two nice boxes of them when I get my tax return :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The question one should ask oneself is this: does a BA really need MORE anti-infantry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Anti-vehicle, anti-HQ/LoW, etc. I think its nice to have a handful of good units that each BA player can tailor to his own play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 How efficiently can they fill the anti-tank role, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Sternguard are good units, but you need to think a lot about their role and how they will be deployed. If you put sternguard with combi-melta into a drop pod for an alpha strike, you are suiciding a very expensive squad. I think a 5-man assault squad with two melta and a combi-melta sergeant handles the alpha-strike role in a much more point efficient manner. Not only are the assault marines cheaper, but they get the drop pod for free. Also, sternguard are competing with DC, furiosos, and sanguinary guard in a very crowded elite slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If your a masochist and want to run a mechanized BA force, Sternguard are some of the best units in the codex bar none. Stick them in a rhino or razorback, and use them to back up mounted tactical and assault squads that they would have trouble handling alone. double tap with the vets, charge with the assault squads. Hellfire rounds are your friend, and the kraken bolt ones aren't bad if your fighting Xenos, with the ap4, dragonfire for weak units abusing good cover saves. Basically, they are great, even at just 6 guys in a razor, they can reliably put wounds on tough stuff that other squads can then finish off. And throw a few combi meltas/plasma, and they get a turn to be anti mech/Teq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hello, Red-beard! I disagree with you on the ability of Assault Squads delivering an alpha strike. Although AS is the more cost-effective option to field melta/plasma (pointswise), AS has a pretty decent chance not destroying its target. BS4 means (on average) you get 2 hits of 3 shots (in case of melta) or 4 hits of 6 shots (in case of plasma). None of them is sufficient to reliably destroy a tank or a 5-man squad. (And get First Blood.) The additional two guns make a huge difference. With 5 melta shot chances are high you get at least 3 hits and shovel 3HP off a tank. (8+2D6 makes penetrating hit fairly likely.) 10 plasma hits gives 6 hits; assuming you are hitting a tank from behind (AV10) average rolls will shave off 3 HP. In case you are firing at a squad with no invu save, average rolls gives you 6 hits and 5 dead guys. Therefore in case you plan to deliver an alpha strike the sternguardians are the better bet. More expensive, granted, but they will get the job done. In this case I believe a 5-man sternguard squad is sufficient. It is not cheap but not prohibitively expensive. Alternatively you can go serious and pull the 10-man combat squad trick Karhedronuk wrote off. (I am also fond of this nice little surprise. I used it with great success, too.) If you are as sick as I am, you can drop 30 of these fine little shoota massa and watch them DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA! KILL KILL KILL! Blood for the blood g... I mean the Emprah. Yup. The guy on golden throne. Not brass, golden. Yup. That's him. An alternate view: you can use 3 AS. Drop the JP for DP in all three cases. Equip one squad with plasma, one with flamer and one with melta weapons. (2 normal and 1 combi.) After deployment you are free to chose the two most suitable AS to go reaping. Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Five sternguard w/ combi melta in a pod is 195 points. For 230 points, you get two 5-man assault marine squads, each with their own pod and three melta guns. So one extra melta gun. Taking five melta guns in a single sternguard squad? Fine....what happens if you blow up your target in the first shot? You just wasted four combi melta shots and likely suicided a 195 point unit. At the end of the day, it's just five 1-wound models with power armour. Taking two 5-man assault squads with melta means you can potentially destroy two targets. It also gives you much more tactical flexibility (ability to flank an imperial knight, for example, so you can bypass its shield). You also have the option to make two units jink instead of just one. It's also much more survivable....two times the number of power armour wounds than the five-man sternguard squad. I'm not saying sternguard don't have their uses. I'm just saying that they aren't the most point-efficient alpha strike option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Don't count out the Sternguard special ammo after they use their combi weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 If you're drop-podding 5 sternguard within melta range, most opponents will try to make sure they're dead before round two. Additionally, the assault marines have two melta guns per squad...not combi-melta like the sternguard. This means that in the event that one squad does survive, they can fire their melta again in round two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hello, Red-beard! Regarding the survivability of sternguardians I totally agree with you. They WILL be dead by T2. They are MEQ. Regarding the point effectiveness of AS you are right. As I already mentioned AS is the most cost effective way to bring melta/plasma guns on the table. But I referred not to the point effectiveness of Sternguard but to its ability to deliver the alpha strike and get first blood. In your example you mentioned TWO assault squad (already more expensive than ONE sternguard squad) and did not take into account you need a third DP (empty or filled) to get both AS on board T1. (This would increase the cost to 265 points minimum.) More points, more slots in the FOC. I agree, at the expense of more points and more slots you gain more tactical flexibility. (More wounds, more units, more potential targets, more DP etc.) The question is if you are willing to pay the price or not. I am not saying AS is not worth taking. (Just look at the alternate view in my post.) But Sternguard has a role (reliably delivering an alpha strike for less than 200 points and taking but a single slot on FOC) that AS (or anything else) is not able to fulfil. By the way, meltagun-slinging assault marines dropped within meltarange are no more survivable than sternguardians. They are MEQ. To wrap up: I'm not saying assault squads don't have their uses. I'm just saying they are not the most most point-efficient alpha-strike option, because Sternguard is cheaper or more reliable in delivering the alpha-strike. This questionable glory goes to the Sternguard. Captain Obvious PS Obviously, It is possible to blow up a tank with just one lucky shot. But It is fairly unlikely. And that is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The big problem with BA Sternguard is the lack of outside support. Whereas C:SM Sternguard have native access to models like Tigerius and Pedro Kantor, BA have to ally for this privilege and it therefore comes with a points tax, of sorts. Native to C:BA, there are simply other options available, but there's nothing inherently wrong with SG as a rule. I think Red-Beard put it best when saying that SG are role-centric, and need to be equipped very specifically and deployed with that role planned far in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think they do well with a hitty Sanguinary Priest attached as a line breaker in a pod. They come down and pop the combis and then can take on all comers, shooting with FNP and can last in an assault, or even charge in the right situation with two base attacks, WS5 and S/I5 on the Charge. Expensive sure, but they will be a big threat in the enemy deployment with some serious alpha strike potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Hello, fellow brothers! @Vel'Cona: I totally agree with this. (And that is exactly the reason I believe the alpha-stiking part of the army should be one single squad, It should be the cheapest unit that can reliably destroy a tank. That is Sternguard. Do not overinvest in something that is not the strenght of the dex. If you want a full DP army roasting your enemy T1 you should play SM Salamanders with Vulcan. They can do It better. By sooooooo far.) @Charlo: Interesting idea. I think adding a priest will make the squad even more expensive and I doubt if this makes the unit significantly more survivable. But I believe It may worth a try. If you take a look at the debate regarding the usefulness of Command Sqad (built-in FNP, PW, CS and investing in 3 melta/plasma veteran and DP) you will find a lot of pros and cons. As far as I can see the essence of that debate is precisly wether the increased points cost worth the increased durability of the squad. (Compared to AS for example.) Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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