Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Brothers:I need your help choosing which of the two noted formations I should build towards. Let me explain briefly: my local meta is very cutthroat and 80% of the local players attend multiple tournaments and always field Adepticon level lists.I'm more of a hobbyist but I love to play too. My friends who I used to play with moved away. Usually I attend Astronomi-con which is a pretty soft tournament since it has strict comp, unique missions, and just attracts a more "forge a narrative" crowd. But I can't count on astro once a year for all my gaming, and need to miss this year since it conflicts with my family vacation.So I need to be able to roll with the locals and I've been advised by an experienced local BA player that I basically need to field one of the above formations to be competitive (I just want a fighting chance and be able to have fun without being tabled turn 2 I don't need or want to dominate).Bottom line is I like my jumpers a lot but the key is I want a formation that will complement Dante+Sanguinary Guard and a jump death company. The Angels Fury would allow these guys to charge when they arrive plus use my tacticals but involves buying and building three storm Ravens which does not fill me with warm fuzzies. So I'm inclined to the Archsngels but would these synergies well with my core units? I guess I can use storm shield VVets to tank wounds with Dante and friends swooping in after? Or do is that build too one dimensional and needs something else to complement the vets?From a modelling perspective all those vets put me in a quandary since I don't know how to paint them since my colour scheme I planned out never involved vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I don't think I agree that you need either to be competitive with BA, but out of the two, I'd say the triple Raven Formation is the most competitive. If you happen to fail you reserve roll, though... good God, that's a lot of point stuck outside the board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 @Deschenus Maximus -- I would hope so, but from the intel I've received about the local meta, I might need these formations to be competitive since I do not attend multiple tournaments per year like 80%+ of the local players do. Maybe I am overreacting to being told to expect all Adepticon level lists at the local tournaments, but I am inclined to accept the advice of the experienced local BA player on what is required for the specific circumstances locally. I would think that in other locales you can count on better than 20% of your opponents being less than Adepticon veteran-level experience. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I am leaning towards the Angel's Fury Spearhead since I already own all the models for my intended force bar the three storm ravens and 10 scouts. But as you say, miss the reserve roll and I could be tabled and lose turn 1 (got to keep some jumpers in reserve to make use of the ability to charge on the first turn). Here is what I've been kicking around in my head: I. ANGEL'S FURY STRIKEFORCE DETACHMENTTacticals (10) w/ combi plasma, plasmagunTactical Marines (10) w/ combi flamer, flamer, heavy flamerTactical Marines (10) w/ combi melta, meltagunStorm Raven w/ twin linked lascannon, multimeltaStorm Raven w/ twin linked lascannon, multimeltaStorm Raven w/ twin linked lascannon, multimeltaII. BAAL STRIKE FORCECaptain w/ jump pack, axe, inferno pistol, Veritas Vitae (a.k.a. poor man's Dante)Sanguinary Priest w/ Angel's WingScouts (5) w/ Sniper rifles, camo cloaksScouts (5) w/ Sniper rifles, camo cloaksDeath Company (5) w/ jump packs, power fist, power swordSanguinary Guard (5) w/ inferno pistol, power first, power axe, 3x power sword, Chapter BannerTOTAL = 1850I'd like to bring Dante himself and a larger Sanguinary Guard squad but that Angel's Fury Strikeforce is darned expensive. It seems to me that I can get away with fewer bodies though since I can likely charge the turn I arrive and don't need to absorb losses on the way in. I picked two squads of scouts with camo cloaks to hide them and hope and pray the strikeforce arrives turn one and I don't get tabled, then deep strike the Sang Guard and Death Company.If I decided to go with the Archangel's Strike Force instead, I would go with something like: I. ARCHANGEL'S SANGUINE WING Sternguard Vets (10) all with combiweapons of some descriptionVanguard Vets (10) w/ 5x storm shields, power weapons or lighting claws on the restVanguard Vets (10) w/ 5x storm shields, power weapons or lighting claws on the restStorm Raven w/ twin linked lascannon, multimelta BAAL STRIKE FORCE Commander DanteSanguinary Priest w/ Angel's WingScouts (5) w/ Sniper rifles, camo cloaksScouts (5) w/ Sniper rifles, camo cloaksDeath Company (5) w/ jump packs, power fist, power swordSanguinary Guard (7) w/ inferno pistol x2, power first, power axe x2, 4x power sword, Chapter Banner... and still have 50 points left over. Maybe take a 6th death company with a thunder hammer. Or add some thunder hammers or meltabombs to the Vanguard Veterans. Or perhaps take two lascannon caddie 5-man tactical squads for the troop choices instead of scouts. This latter would certainly fulfill my desire for a mostly jump-pack army and would look pretty cool. But without the funky deployment options not sure if it's as good (although it works out to something like 2,250 points worth of stuff for the cost of 1,850 which feels almost like cheating). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 When I said I don't think you need the Formations, I meant that you can build a BA force that is as strong, if not stronger, than the stuff in the Formations. Quick but important question: is Forgeworld allowed in your area? Because if so, you should deffo get a Damocles Command Rhino to increase the odds of the Tri-Ravens coming in (talking rerollable 2+ here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Quick but important question: is Forgeworld allowed in your area? Because if so, you should deffo get a Damocles Command Rhino to increase the odds of the Tri-Ravens coming in (talking rerollable 2+ here). No, Forgeworld is not allowed in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's messed up. So Lords of War, Knights and Formations are allowed, but not FW? Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's messed up. So Lords of War, Knights and Formations are allowed, but not FW? Jesus. Yup. Makes no sense to me. I get grief from people when I ask if they're okay with me bringing Death Korps of Krieg assault brigade to friendly games, even. Not too long ago they even disallowed digital only codexes (Inquisition, Adepta Sororitas) but Knights and Formations have always been allowed. The explanation I was given for no digital only codexes is that they are not as widely available since not everyone has iPads/Kindles so therefore it gives an unfair advantage because people will be unfamiliar with those codices. Only Lords of War from codices like Dante, Ghazkull, etc. are allowed though. No super-heavies. Don't ask me, I don't make up the rules here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 IK yes but LOW no makes me lol. So dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Invictus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's messed up. So Lords of War, Knights and Formations are allowed, but not FW? Jesus. Yup. Makes no sense to me. I get grief from people when I ask if they're okay with me bringing Death Korps of Krieg assault brigade to friendly games, even. Not too long ago they even disallowed digital only codexes (Inquisition, Adepta Sororitas) but Knights and Formations have always been allowed. The explanation I was given for no digital only codexes is that they are not as widely available since not everyone has iPads/Kindles so therefore it gives an unfair advantage because people will be unfamiliar with those codices. Only Lords of War from codices like Dante, Ghazkull, etc. are allowed though. No super-heavies. Don't ask me, I don't make up the rules here. Nobody in your area has a mobile phone? Any android will run Google Play books, and all GW digital editions are available as .epub format, which Google uses. An iPhone that is looked after, has software updates done etc., will be able to play the iBook version too I believe, if not, there's bound to be apps available to read .epub and .mobi files on an iPhone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hello, Nicodemus Doloroso! In case your meta is fine with formations, did you considered the Stormraven-double-Stormtalon formation? Add two of this formation, the price clocks in at 900pts and you get bang for your bucks! It gives you a decent firepower (tanks, infantry, AA alike) and you have a fairly reliable way to throw your SG/DC unit in the jaws of death. Just remember to add something durable to the army to survive T1. (Alternatively include a single DP and hope you do not go first!) Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Man, no offence but your local group seem like scared idiots. While no FW I can sort of understand (some units are powerful, and while apriopriately point costed, not everyone can break the bank on resin persae), no digital codexes? I genuinely laughed. Are they that scared of losing thier precious little tournament lists to a sisters of battle? Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 @Charlo and Saul Invictus -- Well, in fairness, the rule against digital codices did not last very long. I think there was one tournament shortly after the Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition codices first came out where they were not allowed, but they have since then. I don't know if this was a result of my asking about this or others, but since most of these folks are very competitive tournament circuit types, I doubt any of them use or have faced Sororitas so it was likely a non issue until I brought it up. @Captain Obvious -- what is the name of this "Stormraven-double-Stormtalon formation" and where can I find it? I don't think I've come across this one in my travels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Adeptus Astartes Stormwing. It's up on the Black Library's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hello, Nicodemus Doloroso! The name of the formation is Stormwing Formation. Google is your friend, Wiki is your girlfriend. Captain Obvious PS I run an army featuring three Stormwing Formation (took 1350 of the total 1850 points). The smile on my opponent's face was not sincere. Edit: Ninja'ed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hello, Nicodemus Doloroso! The name of the formation is Stormwing Formation. Google is your friend, Wiki is your girlfriend. Captain Obvious PS I run an army featuring three Stormwing Formation (took 1350 of the total 1850 points). The smile on my opponent's face was not sincere. Edit: Ninja'ed! That is brutal. You are a monster good sir captain. Sounds fun though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Some BA-relevant information on the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing can be found here should you be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 @Jolemai -- thanks, I actually already found that once I knew the name of the formation. Thanks for the write-up and the link. @Captain Obvious -- that does sound pretty brutal, kind of like the BA/Marine version of the Necron Flying Circus. I'm not actually all that "into" flyers. My interest in the Angel's Fury Spearhead stems purely from the ability to deep strike without scattering and, more importantly, charge the turn you arrive. Which is why I am leaning more and more towards going that route versus anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascalnz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 the raven 2x vanguards and one stern guard detachment is a huge trap. 400 free points?.... but are they really free? the vanguards will not gain the red thirst, so lose out on +1 initiative, meaning in combat they will most likely lose a few bodies before or at the same time as swinging. The also must deep strike, which means they'll only get to assault turn 3 at the earliest and you have problems with possible deepstrike mishaps. It also means that against an assaulty army they will charge you, not the other way around. Sometimes you really want to start the game with your jumpers on the board. It also helps a lot with maelstrom missions to have bodies on the field. Sternguard.... in a raven, eurgh. well, they also miss out on The red thirst and instead of being in a drop pod and alpha striking someones unit/s turn one, you have to wait till turn two for a risky and limited deepstrike from the raven, or till turn three to actually shoot something, meanwhile your opponent is running rampant around your army. It's a lot of points to spend for formation that really only starts to work at turn 3... at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Hello, fellow broters! @Charlo: I took It as a compliment. (Actually I was just fed up with triple-flyrant / triple-Vendetta armies crippling my mech BA army with so much ease and went a bit mad. If you can't beat them, lead them. By the way the army worked like hell.) @Nicodemus Doloroso: In this case I recommend adding a couple of termie squad (optionally a few DC dreadnaughts) riding pods. You can easily fit 3 DP in your army: 3 FA or 2 FA and 1 dedicated transport. This is two termie squads (or some DC dreadnaughts) charging headlong into the jaws of death T1. Try it. Love it. Repeat. Not strong but so much fun. The problem is 1000+ points spent on tac squads & ravens is a toll far too high to pay for the nice little trick. @Pascalnz: Second all that. Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 @Nicodemus Doloroso: In this case I recommend adding a couple of termie squad (optionally a few DC dreadnaughts) riding pods. You can easily fit 3 DP in your army: 3 FA or 2 FA and 1 dedicated transport. This is two termie squads (or some DC dreadnaughts) charging headlong into the jaws of death T1. Try it. Love it. Repeat. Not strong but so much fun. The problem is 1000+ points spent on tac squads & ravens is a toll far too high to pay for the nice little trick. How would I be able to have terminators or dreadnaughts charging out of their pods turn 1? Even with the Angel's Fury Spearhead, they wouldn't be able to do this, since they'd be arriving at the same time (at best) as the stormravens and the tactical marines so they would not be within 12" of the two teleport beacons when they arrive. Or am I missing something? Are you talking about a different formation? I like terminators and dreadnaughts plenty. My main problem is that I want something that fulfills these two requirements: (a) will allow me to go toe-to-toe with brutal adepticon lists and (b) allows me to use my Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. SG and DC are the whole reason I ever started building a Blood Angels army, so as far as I'm concerned, if I can't use them, I'll just stick to Imperial Guard. I'm sure there's a way to use them effectively. The biggest problem with the Angel's Fury formation is that it's so expensive (and that means I risk getting tabled turn 1 if the birds don't show), otherwise I think it would synergise very well with the SG and DC since they can potentially charge the turn they arrive from deep strike. But is there another option others think is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 P.S. - Not suggesting I would ever walk away from my BA, just saying that if it is not feasible to roll with Adepticon-level lists using my two beloved units, I will just save my BA for more friendly games and keep them away from my local gaming store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserve within 12” of at least two models from this Formation equipped with teleport homers, then it does not scatter, and can charge on the same turn it arrives. Charging from Deep Strike is a Formation rule that requires you to be within range of two Stormravens with Teleport Homers embarked. That's it. As for getting everything into range, it should be easy enough during the Movement and Shooting (read: Flat Out) phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 The wording of that rule is making my head hurt. So are you saying that they don't need to arrive within 12" of the teleport homers, they just need to be within 12" when the time comes to launch a charge? I've never used flyers to forgive my stupid question ... but a flyer must arrive in "zoom" mode and its cruising speed is 36" then it can move a further 12-24" going flat out? Man that's insane ... a normal table is only 48" across so I guess there should be no issue having two of those homers in range? Isn't there some controversy about whether the teleport homers must be disembarked in order to be used, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The wording of that rule is making my head hurt. So are you saying that they don't need to arrive within 12" of the teleport homers, they just need to be within 12" when the time comes to launch a charge? I've never used flyers to forgive my stupid question ... but a flyer must arrive in "zoom" mode and its cruising speed is 36" then it can move a further 12-24" going flat out? Man that's insane ... a normal table is only 48" across so I guess there should be no issue having two of those homers in range? Isn't there some controversy about whether the teleport homers must be disembarked in order to be used, though? Whoops, that was a slight error on my part. The Pods do need to arrive within 12" of the Stormraven. Roll the dice for the Stormravens first. Move them on the full 36" (yes they have to arriving zooming unless there's some other rule in play). Place Pods within 12" of two Stormravens. Disembark 6". Assault. As for the Teleport Homers, you measure from the hull of the Stormraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 For what it's worth (as I'm probably not helping), I know there's a thread already talking about this and explaining it better, but I can't find it :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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