Manx Wolf Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hey guys, I recently played a game where me and a friend teamed up to take down another friends large daemon army (3000pts). I took my Knights (1500pts) and he took his Black Templars (1500pts). At one point in the game, the daemon player rolled on the Warp Storm table and got an 11, making any enemy psyker take a leadership test on 3D6, if the unit fails the Leadership test, he turns into a Herald of his choice. Now with all our psykers in a GK army, I was unlucky enough to fail one, turning one of my Terminators into a Herald of Tzeentch I believe. Does this not contradict our fluff that no Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos? Or is it explained that the Grey Knight is ripped into the warp and replaced with a Herald, and not actually "turning" into a Herald? I may have got this backwards but your thoughts on this matter would be interesting to hear. It would be a dire day indeed to hear that one of the Emperors purest soldiers got turned into the very thing he is born to fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The fluff and tabletop have always been only peripherally related at best. For a couple of good examples remember the old 'Movie Marine' rules, to 'accurately' represent the Marines, a squad is a 2k point army, and almost impossible to stop in a 'fair' fight. Or there's the old rules for Ezekiel's mindworm power, which could make Abaddon or the Nightbringer go cry in the corner over the bad things they did, but could not affect the pilot of an open-topped Sentinel. Then there's the way the Eldrad can currently summon Slaaneshi Deamons, up to and including a Keeper of Secrets. This looks like another of those. Best to just smile, nod and not take your games too seriously (unlike the fluff overall, which is serious business ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/#findComment-3992065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Having a GK Termie "surprised" and "sucked into the Warp" by the emergence of the unsuspected emergence of a Herald is not out of bounds, just very unlikely. It is raughly the same as a GK Periling, followed by a Warp rift spawning a Herald. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/#findComment-3992134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Now with all our psykers in a GK army, I was unlucky enough to fail one, turning one of my Terminators into a Herald of Tzeentch I believe. Does this not contradict our fluff that no Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos? Or is it explained that the Grey Knight is ripped into the warp and replaced with a Herald, and not actually "turning" into a Herald? The latter - in the middle of a warpstorm pretty much any Psyker's at risk of exploding into Daemons. They haven't necessarily fallen, it's just that being a Psyker is like being a door to the Warp. If you're a Chaos Psyker you can choose to leave that door open for your Daemon-buddies, but during a Warpstorm, even a strong, pure Psyker like a Grey Knight is at risk of having the door bashed down. For a couple of good examples remember the old 'Movie Marine' rules, to 'accurately' represent the Marines, a squad is a 2k point army, and almost impossible to stop in a 'fair' fight. This one's an interesting case. Movie Marines were about simulating how protagonist Marines functioned in novels - doesn't necessarily mean that's more fluffy. In almost all of the books featureing Marines, they're the heroes, and heroes always roll 6s. In Imperial Guard books you'll have the heroes dueling Chaos Marines and winning - that doesn't mean that Guardsmen should be S/T 5, just that when they're the protagonist, they roll 6s. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/#findComment-3992137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Hey guys, I recently played a game where me and a friend teamed up to take down another friends large daemon army (3000pts). I took my Knights (1500pts) and he took his Black Templars (1500pts). At one point in the game, the daemon player rolled on the Warp Storm table and got an 11, making any enemy psyker take a leadership test on 3D6, if the unit fails the Leadership test, he turns into a Herald of his choice. Now with all our psykers in a GK army, I was unlucky enough to fail one, turning one of my Terminators into a Herald of Tzeentch I believe. Does this not contradict our fluff that no Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos? Or is it explained that the Grey Knight is ripped into the warp and replaced with a Herald, and not actually "turning" into a Herald? I may have got this backwards but your thoughts on this matter would be interesting to hear. It would be a dire day indeed to hear that one of the Emperors purest soldiers got turned into the very thing he is born to fight. I like your second thought better. I agree it's just not happening otherwise, but as others have said, there's always this tiny disconnect between 'what the background supports' and what happens when you write a dozen codexes and don't playtest. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/#findComment-3992259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The Warpstorm table is randumb randumb times randumb to the power of randumb, with extra helpings of mega-retard It's a rules abomination caused by the moronic and irrational approach to games design in that army especially. 'Lets give Daemons a super special snowflake table that screws them just as often as it screws their opponent!'. At least the Boon table makes sense, because it rewards their champions for killing other heroes (its still pretty terrible though). For your own internal head-canon purposes, just pretend the Terminator died. It functionally makes no difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/#findComment-3993275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 It's a rules abomination caused by the moronic and irrational approach to games design in that army especially. 'Lets give Daemons a super special snowflake table that screws them just as often as it screws their opponent!'. At least the Boon table makes sense, because it rewards their champions for killing other heroes (its still pretty terrible though). As a Chaos player, I've gotta agree. The game is about the decisions of two generals fighting against each other, and the warp storm table totally ignores that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/#findComment-3995369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The thing is, if the Warpstorm table was for like scenario play (i.e. representing battling on a Daemon world), it would be fine. But it's foisted upon you every game Daemons are present (even as an Allied detachment). Daemons are fortunate they are broken, if they weren't so powerful, people would be really questioning why its worth having half the game ruined by GW's forged narrative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305319-rules-contradicting-fluff/#findComment-3996257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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