Best Codex for World Eaters?

[stev]

I play mainly World Eaters and was really excited about the deamonkin codex, even tho its not strictly WE I thought it might give me a bit more flavour than the CSM one. The more read about it the less sure I am. No Khârn, ok I can ally him in. No Dirge casters? That sucks.

 

So what does every one recommemd codex wise? KDK? CSM? Crimson slaughter? Black legion? I know people use Space Wolves tho I know nothing about them.

 

My World Eaters consists of Khârn and 3 units of zerkers (2 rhinos and a landraider)

 

My deamons include a prince, bloodcrushers and bloodletters which I used as allies.

 

I also have a helcult, a second dreadnought, cypher and his chosen, raptors, havocs, a lord, apostle. I was gonna try and turn this onto a crimson slaughter army to ally with the combined WE and deamons above. Just need some possessed but im not sure about the whole idea anymore. I like the bllodtithe table but im not sure its enough to swing me.

 

 

Id appreciate my fellow chaos lords thoughts on how to organise this rabble of traitors to best continue the long war against the false emperor!

[infyrana]

Have you thought about the 30k FW rules for 'World Eaters' ?  Just throwing it out there, obviously if your gaming environment doesn't allow for such lists, then that's a no go from the get go.  But, it would allow you another option for fielding berserkers and Khârn, though you would have to allie in by asking your friends any daemon usage with the 40k rules.

[stev]

I know nothing.bout the fw rules but my gaming group is pretty easy going. Why do you suggest them?

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Black legion can do a ok world eaters army

[Scribe]

You have to ask yourself what your definition of a World Eaters army is first.

[Trevak Dal]

Have you thought about the 30k FW rules for 'World Eaters' ?  Just throwing it out there, obviously if your gaming environment doesn't allow for such lists, then that's a no go from the get go.  But, it would allow you another option for fielding berserkers and Khârn, though you would have to allie in by asking your friends any daemon usage with the 40k rules.

 

 

HH rules kinda suck in that they require you to take 10 man units and you can only really upgrade your sargents.  At first you'd be like-"Wow all my guys get chainaxes for free!" then you'd come up against eldar and realize that a group of Guardians or Direavengers can just as easily erase a unit of 5 or 20 strong Space Marines with their shooting (its way better to force them to dump a bucket of dice into 5 guys than into 20)

 

HH World Eater rules really suck, because they got a rule that forces you to assault the nearest unit as one of the legion traits you can take.  The Traitor ones are better and are more "Khorne Beserker Lite", but you still have the unwieldy unit sizes.

 

If they had minimum squads of 5 allowed, I'd strip my stuff tomorrow morning after I got off work and begin putting my CSMs to use as a Legion (Probably Alpha Legion so I'm Future Proofed)

 

Something to remember about Black Legion, is that many people suggest using Chosen as troops-they come equipped with Bolters Bolt pistols and close combat weapons, and have 3 attacks standing still...but you are going to be spending 2 extra points each on them to give them the required Veterans of the Long War tax (Chaos-the only Marine army where you pay for your Army Wide USRs) and then 2 more per guy if you want to mark them-and they aren't WS5, Fearless or have Furious Charge native without the Angry Stick.

 

The long and short is-you're going to be bringing Less Guys the more you bling up what you have.  "Less, but Better Guys" typically lose to "More, but worse guys" (except in the case of Tau Crisis suit armies-but that's because shooting is strong and you can have the equivalent of 3x6 Riflemen dreads that can pop out, light something up and then jump back into cover)

 

 

I say go with Crimson Slaughter, because you can more effectively have a Beserker lord with the Horns on a Khorne marked guy of your choice-and can still use Khârn if you want.  Give him the Killstreak sword and have a good time.

[Deadman Wade]

I think main CSM codex is the best for WE. Daemonkin codex is all about summoning daemons, not about Chaos Space Marines, and Daemonkin CSM can't even be veterans (sure, VotLW usefulness is debatable, but it's still fluffy for old legions astartes to have it). Axe of Blind Fury is still the best Daemon weapon for Lords and DPs.

In my opinion World Eaters warbands should fight like astartes, not just blindly charge at enemy guns. So they need fire support - havocs, predators e.t.c., which daemonkin codex lacks.

Heresy WE list is great, but only for 2000+ points games, where you can take three 20-man squads with banners and apothecaries and still have enough points for HQs and fire support.

If you want all-assault army, then Daemonkin codex is quite good, I think. Lots of fast units and access to melee-boosting buffs is nice. And you can ally with regular csm to take some shooty squads, like obliterators.

[Scribe]

Wade's post is a perfect example of why I ask 'What do you define as World Eaters' as its what he states, a mad rush to the lines, heavy Daemon support, and everything inbetween.

[stev]

In my head (bearing in mind I havent read a ton of black library stuff and am open to correction), I imagine in 40k the world eaters are all small warbands since Khârn did his thing. All had nails so are fighiting that all the time. I imagine it kinda like a bruce banner/hulk thing. They zerkers fight to remain in control but they can feel the rage building and at some point just loose it completely, which may end up being helpful. Maybe. Or you may come back around in a puddle of all yr friends blood. Like Wade said I imagine them still working like space marines, planning etc. I was planning on using my non berzerkers as squads/warbands that the World Eaters have asked/convinced/threatened to help them achieve their goals since they realise that due to the nails they cant handle firesupport duties etc themselves. At the min my havocs are painted as a squad of fallen dark angels and my raptors are, I actually have no idea, they are their own thing based of the original white dwarf fluff where they were arrogant self serving "we're above everyone else, were fighting this battle but were not fighting with you" kinda vibe.

I imagine the deamons as khornes blessing, not always asked for or wanted but as blood is spilled they manifest. The World Eaters realise they are worshipping Khorne and that Deamons can be a useful tool to help achieve their goals so sometimes summon them.

I dunno how accurate all this is fluffwise but thus is a vague idea of how I imagine my army works.

Just not sure how best to implement that on the table!!

[totgeboren]

WE were probably the legion hit the hardest by the "limitations create charachter!" line of thinking that formed much of the 3.5 codex. Their background said that not all Berzerkers are World Eaters, but all World Eaters are Berzerkers. Note here that I really liked that in some legions. IW being basically unaligned, with some khorneate troops at most. WB being fanatically Unidivided instead of "Black Legion, but red". Limitations can build character, but they can be taken to far too.

 

So, if you keep to that WE fluff today, you have one single incredibly narrow unit available (and perhaps some tanks). No HQ, no elites, no nuth'n. It would make no sense at all, since a warband of only axe-wielders on foot would be defeated by just about anything. A steep slope could be enough even.

 

With that in mind, I much prefer a "PTS scfi-fi Warrior" portrayal of them instead of the "Fantasy evil NPC" whcih they have been stuck with in many publications.

For example, the WE in Talon of Horus are pretty crazy Khornate guys obviously, but they act in a way that isn't instant suicide. The main WE character in one scene is all badass with his heavy bolter as he is fighting a daemon!

 

I would personally go with the CSM codex, VoLW all round, having maybe one or two units of Berzerkers as the 'lost causes', kinda like a WE equivalent to the Death Company of the BA. The res tof the army would be different CSM units with the MoK.

 

However, the problem as always remain when it comes to competitiveness. Any army based on Chaos Marines will be pretty weak, and armies based on cc tend to have a hard time on top of that. So a army based on cc CSM will have a double handicap.

[Sception]

Codex: Space Wolves makes the best 40k world eaters armies. I mean, it's not even close. Leave the psykers at home, thrown in some CtA daemon allies, and you're done.

[Lazarine]

I always used to play my World Eaters as Blood Angels, basing the army around a single tactical squad, three assault squads (two in rhinos) and a large squad of Death Company (representing those lost to the nails), with the rest varying depending on how I felt. Since the new codex came out, I've changed jobs three times and relocated t the other end of the country, so I haven't had a chance to update it to the new codex.

 

This always felt right to me for an army that is of World Eater stock but too proud to bow their knee to Khorne, although they belong to Khorne mind, body and soul. It gave an army with a bit of furious charge, powerful on the charge but a bit weaker if charged themselves.

[stev]

I need to check out the blood angels and wolves. I had heard ppl use wolves to get jugger zerkers...but blood company sound fun too. A blood angel/wolves ally list?

 

I feel like im being a bad traitor even suggesting that

[Cap'm Heckus]

If you're not wanting to use loyalist rules to simulate a chaos army then I say go Crimson Slaughter. All units cause fear, decent artifacts, still have access to everything from CSM book (including Khârn), and alt rules for possessed aren't terrible. Also, their color scheme is unintentionally khornate.

[infyrana]

I like a lot of the comments here, they all have good ideas and solid reasons behind their comments.

 

When you wrote World Eaters, I saw them immediately as a Heresy era (pre/post) Legions list hence my first comment which is how I prefer them, but seeing it in the Codex Chaos Space Marines section, I knew you wanted a WE berserker fluffy list.  My limited view on them in 40k is just as a unit of Berserkers with lots of added daemons and juggers and a bloodthirster, the daemons part of it is the reason I don't like them in 40k, not my thing.

 

Space Wolves codex would certainly allow you to field a full force of space marines as a cohesive warband that has shooting and mech instead of just a single berserker entry.  'Modelling and converting' units like the Juggernaut models to count as Thunderwolf Cavalry, Grey Hunters and Skyclaws can easily be modelled as World Eater marines sane or gone mad, you even have massive scope for conversion in the dreadnought departments with the Venerables (shield/axe, murderfang with dual claws etc).  If rules permit, you could allie in Blood Angels for their Death Company models to use as Wulfen (or in your case, lost causes - berserkers with more nails than sensibility).  If you're group is pretty relaxed and enjoys thematic counts-as armies, then this imho is a good place to investigate further.

 

As I've never competed, I wouldn't know how this would affect your 'standing' within narrative/statistic games etc, since you would be running Space Marines and not Chaos Marines.  If you were full of Codex books and a host of models, you could build your army using both codex lists and choose which one you wanted for any particular game, as long as the models clearly show difference where is needed and the appropriate wargear - they could be berserkers one moment, or death company the next, etc.

 

On the flip side, if you wanted a slightly easier route with far less worries, there are some good suggestions above using the Chaos codex.  All food for thought, but as above most of the people on this board have a lot more knowledge than I to help you :)

[stev]

It looks like ill give daemonkin a miss then (maybe pic it up for the fluff) which is a shame as I was hoping it would solve all my problems. And I really do like the idea behind the bloodtithe table. Its fluffy and sounds like itd be good fun to use

[totgeboren]

It looks like ill give daemonkin a miss then (maybe pic it up for the fluff) which is a shame as I was hoping it would solve all my problems. And I really do like the idea behind the bloodtithe table. Its fluffy and sounds like itd be good fun to use

 

Daemonkin can work well enough too. I just personally associate the old legions with the VoTW upgrade, and as I understood it Daemonkin marines can't get that?

 

It is however a minor rule. I dunno, the bloodtithe table can probably make a khorne marine army function much better, but on the other hand the Daemonkin book seems to rely heavily on Daemons with marines taking more of a supporting role. So then it's not a World Eater army, but a Khorne daemon army with some marine support.

 

I think both can work. It depends on if you want more of an all-out assault army consisting of a mix of daemons and marines, or if you are looking for more of a marine-centric army with marine support units too? Both can be an ok representation of a World Eater(ish) warband in 40k.

[stev]

Well yeah I guess I will have the models to try running both and see the difference. I think at the minute ill stick with CSM for veterans and dirge casters. That codex will cover my "World Eaters" (Khârn, berzerkers and transports) and the support troops (essentially the rest of the codex). Fluff wise these guys will be the raptors, fallen dark angels, members of other warbands which have fallen appart, been destroyed etc. that have thrown their lot in with the World Eaters. They might not be the safest bunch to hang around but its a better option than trying to survive in the Eye of Terror by yourself. If I decide Khorne is pleased I can just ally in some deamons.

[Targetlock]

I used the blood angel codex for a while for my Khornate force, it was fun to use :) wish our berserkers had more options like the death company do.

[stev]

I know...berzerkers with flamers seems fluffy and fun. Or the optiin to give them all juggers. Or assault ramps on rhinos. Alas.

[Uprising]

I personally use space wolves dex because i want Jugger cavalry, also an allied knight or two is extremely helpful. 

[Scribe]

For what its worth, I'll be trying Berzerkers, and Rhino rush to get extra blood tithe. We hate it when rhino's die, but if it helps us? Why not. We dont want to charge too early anyway so we can build up and get buffs.