Chefzilla Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Here's my question. The last 2 campaign games I've been facing 2 to 1 odds. For example today was 3000 points to my 1500 so I've been taking a Hellhammer as a Lord of War. I've been demolishing my opponents. Today I killed 1500 points of CSM to a loss of about 225. Should I feel guilty? Tonight, my opponent didn't focus on anyone target and did more to kill my squishies. My Hellhammer took 3 hull points and I told him that he should of concentrated his fire power. He complained that if I didn't have the Hellhammer and had taken more Leman Russes things might have been different. I told him that if he's going to let my Hellhammer demolish him then that's on him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicksilver117 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Should you feel guilty, nah. Not if he had 3k Points. I have always been of the opinion that few things generate despair quite as hard as super units. Is the green tide or 2 units of conscripts capable of utterly destroying the same enemies, probably. But having watched a wraithknight eat 700 points of units in 3 turns, that was worse than the guy with the BA's killing 800 points with assault marines and death company by far. But, those were even matches. with a 1500 point difference I woulda just brought 1500 points of deepstriking melta something or other and made that baneblade a sacrifice to the Emperor(because I am not a fething heretic it would have to have been Scions or Yet more Elysians). Adamantine Lance on the other hand.........feth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 How could he not kill it with 1500 extra points? or wip the rest of your army away in short order if he was going to ignore it? theres some major disparity there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Agreed if he had a 1500 point advantage and still couldn't kill your lord of war or even wipe the rest of your units away, he deserves the spanking he recieved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 He made some really poor decisions that I certainly was going to capitalize on. For starters I'm going to prioritize targets until the biggest threats are dead. Second I'm not going to hold half my army in reserve. My Naval Officer made his life a living hell. He got almost no reinforcement until turn 3. He did almost kill all my squishies but then he split up his Deep Striking Hell Brutes. Sending one into me squishies, one against Thunderchild and the third had a DS mishap and went back in to reserve. When it did come out he attacked my Wyvren. I had him 3 Victory Points to 1 by Turn 5. First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker but killing off 1500 points of his army! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampyrerodent Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 The guy's gonna learn some day. It's like beating up on a little brother. One day the little brother will be bigger and offer a better match. He will have to learn or continue to perish. 2-1 odds in 40k is huge mismatch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 When he is given a 2-to-1 point advantage, he gets to right to complain about anything you take. Tell him to field his own knight house or something if he has problems. Perhaps a half dozen ripetides or wraithknights. Maybe even a centstar or two, with points to spare. Hell, with that point disparity, tell him to just simply win. A mess of tactical squads rushing forwards should still win that game. You can only fire the main gun at one target a turn. Sounds like he can't stand that he lost when he really should have easily won. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Chef, should you feel guilty? The answer is, probably. I mean, you're an enlisted man right? That makes you guilty of something... (At least, that was my experience...) About this glorious triumph? Hell no, hard won victories are sweet like well ripened fruit. He can blame no one but himself. I've had games like that, where I had equal points to my opponent, but a hilariously low model count. It taught me some things about list building. I will admit that I got swept up in the trap of blaming my opponent for being dirty, but I came to realize that the defeat was mine. In a similar vein, I know a guy (a BA player) that complained about a Khorne Daemons list (that had no anti armor ability) being too competitive. The fault was his, as the daemons list was points-static, in that it could not bring more daemons onto the field. The BA player charged headlong into the daemons, and proceeded to get slaughtered. His armor component did nothing but sit there. It sounds like your opponent has no grasp of tactics, and target priority. That same player was overconfident and made all kinds of mistakes against me (and I made mistakes too, a lot, like deploying things badly, and mistaking some weapons strengths, in fairness It was my first time playing the army, and I was learning it). My concentration was shot to hell by his rules lawyering (If you jump into terrain [buildings, ruins, etc...] it's a dangerous terrain test, plain and simple, he tried to argue that that was not the case for buildings). He also played a 1500 point game, that lasted 3-4hrs, and a friend and I played 2k in the time it took for their first turn (his opponent was supremely annoyed). Sorry about the tangent, back to the original thought, he missed opportunities to get my scions into close combat, and that let me kill his marines. He sunk close to 625 points into killing my knight (only worth 375pts), and the knight really didn't do anything of note except distract him. My knight killed around 400 points of the stuff he threw at it (stomped some, and then crushed the rest after it died). His incredibly flawed performance was however sufficient to justify his bravado after he won. I learned some valuable things, like I needed to keep my opponents away from me so I can shoot them, and not to listen to some of the chuckle heads at that shop when they tell me to hold my troops in reserve to come in on Valks... Bottom line, the baneblade served it's purpose and demoralized him to the point that his tactical judgement became compromised, allowing you the strategic opportunity to exploit his tactical malfeasance, and improvise, adapt, and overcome (That is both serious praise and poking fun at officers and their big words... God that hurt to write, I can't remember that last time I heard such moto bull crap...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Ulrik, I love you and I was enlisted at one time but being an NCO means I have to set the example. Translates to just not getting caught as often. I agree if you're going to allow me to rampage then that's on you and I love that my last few victories have been such slam dunks. Battle of 73 Easting anyone. The mission of Armor is to close with and destroy the enemy through the use of maneuver, firepower and shock effect. Though the Baneblade is not the greatest at maneuver is makes up for that in firepower and shock effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FashaTheDog Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt. So yes you are guilty and you should feel guilty. Don't forget he gets +1 to sieze the initiative, unless he brings a Lord of War, and every 3 hull points of damage to the Lord of War are a VP. I don't know if it will help him, but make sure he knows about the other Warlord trait table from Escalation, there are some nifty traits on it. The other thing to do since it seems poor choices cost him victory, is to point things out before and during the game. Not so much playing his army for him, but making a helpful suggestion here and there so his errors are not overwhelming. One of my foe's who is only now finding his stride had similar bad judgments losing him games. I'd drop a suggestion here or a hint there and he has gotten considerably better. Now he is looking to field a Knight army with his new found skills and I think I created a monster. Good thing I can order monster hunters on my units though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3995904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt. So yes you are guilty and you should feel guilty. Don't forget he gets +1 to sieze the initiative, unless he brings a Lord of War, and every 3 hull points of damage to the Lord of War are a VP. I don't know if it will help him, but make sure he knows about the other Warlord trait table from Escalation, there are some nifty traits on it. The other thing to do since it seems poor choices cost him victory, is to point things out before and during the game. Not so much playing his army for him, but making a helpful suggestion here and there so his errors are not overwhelming. One of my foe's who is only now finding his stride had similar bad judgments losing him games. I'd drop a suggestion here or a hint there and he has gotten considerably better. Now he is looking to field a Knight army with his new found skills and I think I created a monster. Good thing I can order monster hunters on my units though. It would greatly depend on how new he is to the game. If he's played enough games to know better, then let him make mistakes. If he's a consistent loser, and makes these mistakes all the time, you might want to take him aside and run him through some fair and balanced games, but don't be nice, run him through the wringer and teach him how to spot his mistakes before he makes them. That's what my meta did for me, and I have a lot more fun now, since now I know how to build a decent list. Ulrik, I love you and I was enlisted at one time but being an NCO means I have to set the example. Translates to just not getting caught as often. I agree if you're going to allow me to rampage then that's on you and I love that my last few victories have been such slam dunks. Battle of 73 Easting anyone. The mission of Armor is to close with and destroy the enemy through the use of maneuver, firepower and shock effect. Though the Baneblade is not the greatest at maneuver is makes up for that in firepower and shock effect. Good to know I'm loved. Gotta say though, Usually my NCO's were just as guilty as me... When there were shenanigans happening, in fact, I remember getting ordered to fight another airman (Post FTX shenanigans), and that makes the NCO guilty...er than me... I was following a lawful order from a superior (I never got past E4, because of reasons). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3996130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 If you win a game because someone who should know what they are doing hands you a win despite having the stronger list or some other advantage then they can only blame themselves. I had one guy complain about a 3k list with three land raiders when he had more than enough melta to kill it, but he deployed most of it too far away despite the fact that I deployed first. The only time you should feel bad about crushing someone is when they don't yet know the game well enough to be able to make the right calls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3996164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So you were outnumbered in points 2:1 and he couldn't win? I think there are other, more important factors here :P Guilt is for the weak, therefore the Guard have no need for it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3996495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 So you were outnumbered in points 2:1 and he couldn't win? I think there are other, more important factors here Guilt is for the weak, therefore the Guard have no need for it! Like I said he made some seriously heinous tactical errors. Over half his army was in reserve and my Naval Officer made he's really crappy reserve rolls worse. His biggest error was not concentrating firepower. He was just all over the map. One Hellbrute to take on Thunderchild. One to take on my infantry. When he finally got his termies in and dropped them right between my Vanquisher and Chimera carrying my Vet squad. He turned them around to take out the Chimera. Then he tied up a Raptor squad and a Dreadnought to take out my 5 man Scion team. I did tell him that he should have concentrated on one target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3996728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 A hellbrute is not a good anti-tank unit, in itself. Like a dreadnought, you have to equip it for the task, and even then, you have to employ it correctly, hit it with a MM, hopefully stripping off a HP or exploding it, and if not, charge it and give it the old power fist to the back side, until it pops. That's how you use a Dread/helbrute to kill a tank, but it can't do it alone, it needs some infantry support so your opponent doesn't tarpit it. You most certainly do not use a dread/hellbrute to take out a transport, that's a waste of high strength weapons. He shouldn't have sent a helbrute against your infantry, what's it going to do, shoot the infantry up, and then go CC? Bad idea, it'll be stuck there for the rest of the game. Now, a dread can do this rather well, seeing as it can take a HF on the CCW, shoot the gun (assault cannon is my weapon of choice, otherwise the TLHF, or TLHB is fine for anti infantry if you want it cheap and cheerful) then fire the CCW secondary, then charge. Hellbrutes are far more restricted than loyalist dreads. He sounds like a duncebucket, and needs coaching, otherwise he's not going to be a fun opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305467-should-i-feel-guilty/#findComment-3996889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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