Soooo .... Assault Marines ?

[eurieus]

Hello brothers ! 

 

So, i got a few old GW kits from a comic book store for free, and between some orks/LotR and chaos stuff, there was a 5 man assault marines box. 

 

I know that the general consensus is that they kinda suck, and of course, you are better off with ravenwing on even Vets in a pod. I play RW, DW and a mix of both and only use my greenwing element when i absolutly need to ( no special character allowed and such ... ) and i dont see assault marines in any of those three list. 

 

But maybe i overlooked some utility they might have ? Is there something about AM that can be a good trick ? Maybe they can fit in an all greenwing army ? But that would be a mobile unit in an overall static gunline. 

 

I also think 5 man sucks but i dont want to buy a box for a useless unit. 

 

So, can the assault marines find a spot in my unforgiven force ? Or should i keep them if one day i want to start some blood angels ? :D 

 

Brother Eurieus

[Lucien Eilam]

5 Marines with jump packs and two flamers isn't a bad unit. They're cheap and useful for thinning out hordes, finishing off units, or tying up a heavy weapon squad for a turn. They don't suck, the issue is using a slot on them when there's so much competition for Fast Attack in the DA list. Easier to find a place for them with Unbound or multiple Detachments.

[Master Avoghai]

I personnaly like my assault marines

 

They suffer from the fact they occupy FA slot and therefoe enter in competition vs RW bikes and RWBK.

 

To me, it's just tactical who can have 2 special weapons and are hghly manoeuvrable. They make a nice retinue for a 2nd HQ with JP such as a chaplain and can fulfill a nice anti hordes roles while you use your vets/bikes against anti heavy.

 

Sure the T4 and the absence of jink make them more vulnerable than bikes but don't foregt they are also a lot cheaper : 17 vs 27. On the other hand, they have more A in CC and can ignore lots of terrain.

 

The reasonning about assault marines crappyness is based ont their use in an ETC-like army. But many people forgot 2 things :

 

1- not everybody plays ETC-like games, most of the games are just semi-competitive

2- DA are not an ETC army anyway...

[Zectz]

Their special weapons are more limited compared to other chapters, but either way an interesting feature that not many people talk about is being able to remove the jump packs and take a rhino or drop pod for free. Doing this makes them more cost effective than tactical marines but loses out on Objective Secured (if that's important to you). If you are a fan of flamers for whatever reason, this also allows you to take a pseudo tactical squad with x2 flamers in a rhino/drop pod when you wouldn't normally be able to.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I would say: 2 flamers and combi flamer for the sgt for maximum alpha strike. Either drop pod them for "suicide" squad dutiesor keep jump packs and use them as attack/counter-attack unit. Not as glamorous as other units in FA department but they are cheap and will get their job done.

[GreyCrow]

Coming from Raven Guard and after forcing myself to play with Assault Marines despite common wisdom saying they suck, they've now become an auto-include in my lists :p

 

The best way to look at Assault Marines is as a cheap utility unit with a very decent staying power. In a predominantly shooty metagame, the ability to neuter a strong shooty units with a fast moving MEQ unit is priceless !

I find that there are two loadouts that work very well with Assault Marines : 10 strong with 2 Flamers and a Power Weapon on the Sergeant and 5 strong with 3 Plasma Pistols. With Raven Guard, I predominantly use the 10 strong loadout (starting to combat squad them a lot more though) because the chapter tactics provide very useful anti-infantry bonuses but the two loadouts are good.

 

One key strengths of Assault Marines is that they have MEQ stats and let's be honest, there are few Troops units that can reliably deal with Marines in melee an their intervention will be priceless. I remember throwing a 5 man squad into a blob of 20 Guardsmen that were ducked in cover in the 2nd turn and silenced this entire unit for the rest of the game. It might not sound much, but it just silenced 40 rapid fire lasgun shots that would have seriously threatened the Tactical squads. Besides if you equip your Tactical squads with Plasmas or higher strength weapons, you don't waste their firepower while they could be shooting at stronger stuff.

When facing against other MEQ armies, they're not going to be as effective as against weaker troops. But in that case, use them like in the second option.

The 3 Plasma Pistols loadout is better for weakening cheap but expensive long range elite units like Broadsides or Devastators or Centurions, then stuck them in melee as well. Grav Centurions in my meta fear my Assault Marines like the black plague. I love to stick a 5 man squad in their face and they can't deal with them unless they dedicate good CC ressources to kill them. So that's a 250 points shooty unit silenced, plus at least another 200 points unit thrown into the melee. So you've effectively caught up 450+ points of the opponent for a turn, with a ~100 points investment.

 

In lower points games, this is priceless. In 2000 points games, this is still 25% of the enemy army that won't get to do anything else against your force. :)

 

Look at them more as a tactical utility tool rather than a killing machine and they really start to shine :)

[Grand Master Raziel]

Well, Assault Marines are cheaper than RW Attack Squadrons per model, not much less mobile, and have the advantage of being able to go over impassable terrain instead of having to go around.  As stated, a squad with 2 flamers can thin out hordes, and the competition for Fast Attack slots isn't quite as severe using Sammael as an HQ choice, making RW Attack Squadrons Troops instead of Fast Attack.  It's Greenwing support that can keep up with the Ravenwing.  I've been playing against Tau and IG a lot lately, and those players have been favoring a mass boots-on-the-ground approach lately, particularly for Tau because their pulse weaponry can mass-glance most vehicles to death.  So, I've started fielding a 5-man Assault Squad with 2 flamers to thin them out.  Cheaper and more expendable than an equivalent Ravenwing Squadron with 2 flamers.

[Gillyfish]

Personally I have always liked them as either a counter-charge unit to protect your own lines, or as a tar-pit unit. They can be particularly deadly if a jump pack equipped chaplain is attached to the unit, they do become more costly if you go down that route, but they will eat most standard units in return and your opponent will then have to shift a fearless unit (this also makes them very effective as a tar-pit).

[twopounder]

DA assault marines don't suck. They're just not good compared to other fast attack choices. 10 assault marines hitting an IG troop army is still going to make their lines crumble. It's just that bikes will do the same while being harder to kill AND put out much more firepower.

 

That said, you can put them behind devastator squads for a quick reaction blocker. Jump them over devastators and assault units that threaten the devs. Use them to hit enemy ranged units or give them flamers and burn out entrenched squads.

 

Ultimately though, they went the way of the dreadnought. Not bad, just not the best value for the slot they take.

[eurieus]

I personnaly like my assault marines

They suffer from the fact they occupy FA slot and therefoe enter in competition vs RW bikes and RWBK.

To me, it's just tactical who can have 2 special weapons and are hghly manoeuvrable. They make a nice retinue for a 2nd HQ with JP such as a chaplain and can fulfill a nice anti hordes roles while you use your vets/bikes against anti heavy.

Sure the T4 and the absence of jink make them more vulnerable than bikes but don't foregt they are also a lot cheaper : 17 vs 27. On the other hand, they have more A in CC and can ignore lots of terrain.

The reasonning about assault marines crappyness is based ont their use in an ETC-like army. But many people forgot 2 things :

1- not everybody plays ETC-like games, most of the games are just semi-competitive

2- DA are not an ETC army anyway...

Of course it mostly comes from the perspective of very competitive players, which i'm not, but i also like to win ... Sometimes ;)

My question was only to have some insight on a unit i know nothing about, and as i have a LOT of DAs left to paint, i was just wondering if it would be worth it to invest time in them.

And all your replies answered my question perfectly, and i'm actually excited to try them out. Guess i will be painting some Assault Marines soon !

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

If you can use special characters, take Azrael, Sammael, or Belial (whatever your pleasure) to make their respective wings troops, which will free up your fast attack slots, to take those assault marines. I'm coming to like my JumpGuard (Jump Pack Wolf Guard) more and more, as I play around with list ideas. Assault marines are a good cheap way of getting marines around the board. Now, Wolf Guard are a special animal, since they're sort of like sternguard and vanguard put together, I can give them Bolters or combi-weapons and just use the pack as a way to get around terrain, or for a beta strike melta drop, or I can kit them for assault. Kitted for assault (the way I usually take them) they either draw fire, while your tacticals get in position, or they punish your opponent for ignoring them. GreyCrow has the right idea on how to use them, since Raven Guard make such extensive use of them.

[aura_enchanted]

If you can't afford 4+ bikes take assault marines that's how I look at the assault marines however they work well in chorus with other assault units they cab provide cheap attacks and wounds to terminators who need to be protected like your firstborn they cost so gd much. I use them in tandem with terminators a lot

[SvenONE]

Grim Resolve is actually a pretty solid rule for them because if you want anything stuck in combat it's the unit throwing out a ton of attacks <<shakes fist at the fact we don't have scouts and LSS>>.  

 

But like others have said, their problem is that they take up an FA slot, which I think is better served with RWAS since they have better utility.  Outflank and scout I think are far better than deepstriking/jump packs.  Additionally I think Company Veterans fulfill the role a lot better.  A 10 man drop pod squad (8x BP/CS and 2x Flamers) vs a 10 Man Assault Marine Squad with 2x Flamers and a power sword sargeant are interesting comparisons.  The drop pod vets cost 30 points more, but will have 10 more attacks, have a better chance of landing close by to use those flamers and the 1 extra leadership. 

 

I think both are viable, I just value my FA slots more than my Elite slots.

[aura_enchanted]

Grim Resolve is actually a pretty solid rule for them because if you want anything stuck in combat it's the unit throwing out a ton of attacks <<shakes fist at the fact we don't have scouts and LSS>>.

 

But like others have said, their problem is that they take up an FA slot, which I think is better served with RWAS since they have better utility. Outflank and scout I think are far better than deepstriking/jump packs. Additionally I think Company Veterans fulfill the role a lot better. A 10 man drop pod squad (8x BP/CS and 2x Flamers) vs a 10 Man Assault Marine Squad with 2x Flamers and a power sword sargeant are interesting comparisons. The drop pod vets cost 30 points more, but will have 10 more attacks, have a better chance of landing close by to use those flamers and the 1 extra leadership.

 

I think both are viable, I just value my FA slots more than my Elite slots.

let's assume in the case of bikes vs assaults however you haven't the points to tart up either squad who's the better bare unit?

[SvenONE]

 

Grim Resolve is actually a pretty solid rule for them because if you want anything stuck in combat it's the unit throwing out a ton of attacks <<shakes fist at the fact we don't have scouts and LSS>>.

 

But like others have said, their problem is that they take up an FA slot, which I think is better served with RWAS since they have better utility. Outflank and scout I think are far better than deepstriking/jump packs. Additionally I think Company Veterans fulfill the role a lot better. A 10 man drop pod squad (8x BP/CS and 2x Flamers) vs a 10 Man Assault Marine Squad with 2x Flamers and a power sword sargeant are interesting comparisons. The drop pod vets cost 30 points more, but will have 10 more attacks, have a better chance of landing close by to use those flamers and the 1 extra leadership.

 

I think both are viable, I just value my FA slots more than my Elite slots.

let's assume in the case of bikes vs assaults however you haven't the points to tart up either squad who's the better bare unit?

 

 

Hmm kind of a tough question, if you're saying that I've only got 85 points to spend and nothing more I think the AMs may get an edge.  But if you're saying I've got 200 points to spend I'd probably take the bikes.  Also depends on the rest of the list.  Namely because I'd probably bring an HQ on a bike before I brought one with a jump pack.

[JeffJedi]

I support the Flamers Assault Squad. I bring a Power Fist or Sword with them because you will usually see close combat.

 

Two flamers on a closely packed enemy then bolt pistols, possible hammer of wrath and charge bonus with two attacks. The you are able to move in buildings if you need to.

[GreyCrow]

Like Sven said, available points matter a lot. You can get a very decent Assault Squad for about 100 points and you'll still get the utility it brings (locking enemy units in combat). For a more generalist attack unit, Ravenwing Bikers are superb if the points allow it. They're good at shooting, they're easier to assault with (you can just go in the open while Assault Marines require careful maneuvering) and they have awesome utility in the form of Scouts and the Teleport Homers.

 

But for situations where you want to silence a Cultist unit, or just prevent Grav Centurions from firing, Assault Marines do the same job for cheaper. Bikers are more a centerpiece while AM are definitely support.

[vampyrerodent]

I have my drop pod assault marines, w/flamers, drop ahead of the Ravenwing. They make for a decent cover and will usually soften things up. Then the opponent has a choice, shoot the bikes or the assault squad. I prefer the Drop Pod variety as they will land safely, and do not have to jump across the board. Fortunately I have a squad of each, it's just that my drop assaulters get more use.

[Master Avoghai]

 

I personnaly like my assault marines

They suffer from the fact they occupy FA slot and therefoe enter in competition vs RW bikes and RWBK.

To me, it's just tactical who can have 2 special weapons and are hghly manoeuvrable. They make a nice retinue for a 2nd HQ with JP such as a chaplain and can fulfill a nice anti hordes roles while you use your vets/bikes against anti heavy.

Sure the T4 and the absence of jink make them more vulnerable than bikes but don't foregt they are also a lot cheaper : 17 vs 27. On the other hand, they have more A in CC and can ignore lots of terrain.

The reasonning about assault marines crappyness is based ont their use in an ETC-like army. But many people forgot 2 things :

1- not everybody plays ETC-like games, most of the games are just semi-competitive

2- DA are not an ETC army anyway...

 

Of course it mostly comes from the perspective of very competitive players, which i'm not, but i also like to win ... Sometimes ;)

 

My question was only to have some insight on a unit i know nothing about, and as i have a LOT of DAs left to paint, i was just wondering if it would be worth it to invest time in them.

 

And all your replies answered my question perfectly, and i'm actually excited to try them out. Guess i will be painting some Assault Marines soon ! ;)

That was actually the meaning of my remark : I've guessed that like lots of us, you want useful squad for nice games and not auto win armies. And for this purpose I think assault squads helps perfectly.

 

I've personnaly used the Vanguard kit to make my sgts and characters with JP and it gives nice results + gives you lots of nice bitz

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Assault Marines, especially led by a Reclusiarch, have been awesome for me. Mobility mixed with just enough hitting power to do some damage but not to wipe a unit. Obviously don't send them against deathstars but put them against troops or others and you will likely win if you get the charge. Full 10 man for  extra wounds and then I add 3 plasma pistols. Way or expensive than they need but those shots have helped me in the past.

[Prot]

I personally think bikes win that spot for me all the time... unless I can't afford them in the list. Thus the Assault Marines only fit in my lists Dirt Cheap.

 

A couple of dudes, two flamers... done.