Deep Strike Land Speeders

[Zectz]

Hey guys, I've been a lurker on these forums for a while and thought it was time to get involved since I'm reviving my old Dark Angels from a long time ago (still got this codex lying around! http://imgur.com/Jazkifc).

 

I wanted to ask about people thoughts on deep striking Land Speeders as its something that I haven't seen talked about much. Has anyone has any expertise with this? It sounds like a good, cheap way deploying alpha strike Melta for your anti tank role. Most marine players regardless of chapter tend to go for the drop pod combi weapons route these days but I don't see why the Land Speeders can't do the same thing, if not more effectively in some aspects. Obviously the Land Speeder can't arrive turn 1 like the drop pods can, but when they do, the Multi Meltas will be more likely to be within half range after the scatter roll thanks to "24 range. They are also not limited to 1 use, should they survive the following shooting phase, which they are more likely to being armour value and being able to jink if needed. They could even zip around the table for objectives while a drop pod unit is left immobile.

 

Obviously there is more potential here with other weapon loadouts, I just wanted to get the topic rolling. So has anyone tried this tactic? Any good experiences with it or are Land Speeders better off starting on the table?

[GreyCrow]

Hey there ! So I've played with Landspeeders a bit as a Raven Guard player, but I think they work the same regardless of the Marines Codex you use

One of the main reasons why people go for footsloggers with Melta on a Pod is for two reasons : 1) You can arrive Turn 1 and you're good for alpha strike ; 2) It will not mishap, so you can be aggressive with your placement, even deep in the heart of the enemy and secure the positioning of close range weapons.

With Landspeeders, Deep Striking is much more unreliable because you can mishap and end up back in reserves or at the other side of the board, especially when taking risks with very close range weapons like flamers or melta. For the Dual Melta/Dual Flamer loadout, this is especially true. Meltas can get around switching targets because S8 AP1 works well enough against other light vehicles, but if you absolutely need something destroyed, you are leaving the results to chance. For flamers, this is especially more dangerous.

One thing that Speeders have going for them on the Deep Strike however is the model size. Because they are a lot larger than infantry models, you can mitigate a bad Deep Strike roll with the 2nd and 3rd models in a more advantageous position roughlly 2-3 inches close to your intended target.

In my opinion, 2 loadouts work better with Deep Strike in mind (assuming you don't have locator beacons or ways to ensure a controlled Deep Strike), and they are the Typhoon and the Heavy Bolter/Assault Cannon Tornado. Simply because having more range allows for safer Deep Striking options without undermining their firepower.

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In terms of playstyle however, I would refrain Deep Striking Landspeeders except in one scenario. In my humble opinion, regardless of pattern, Landspeeders should be played as a dagger in your opponent's side in Turn 2, even in the case of Typhoons (their longer range is nice for firesupport Turn 1, but you miss out on the opportunity of going around cover to your intended target to increase their damage output). And after their run in Turn 2, jink away in Turn 3 if the enemy returns fire, to come back again in Turn 4.

So, if we look at Landspeeders as a Turn 2+ fire support/eraser unit, we can accept to let Turn 1 firepower go. If we let Turn 1 firepower go, we can essentially move 42" between our Turn 1 and Turn 2 movements (12" + 18" Flat Out + 12" turn 2) before they fire. We can even use that to position them behind line of sight blocking terrain and use their skimmer rule to move through it without penalty.

Now, I would personally avoid Deep Striking when I have a unit that can move 42" and be sure to start on the board, don't miss their reserve and don't miss their Deep Strike scatter.

The only scenario where I would Deep Strike the Landspeeders is when the enemy has an abundance of Ignores Cover weapons and/or when there are no line of sight blocking opportunities for my Landspeeders to hide behind. That's because a Jinking Landspeeder is a useless Landspeeder, and from experience high strength Ignores Cover weapons will make short work of any squadron. So against Tau, Eldars with Serpent Shields, any army with a Divination Psyker that rolls on Perfect Timing and Tyranids with an abundance of Hive Guards it would be a good idea to consider Deep Striking

I tend to look at Deep Strike more as a tool to deploy my unit than a go-to strategy, especially in fast units like the Landspeeders. It's better to do in situations, in other situations it's preferable to start them on the board. But because you have the option to Deep Strike, it doesn't mean you should decide to not use it or to base your entire unit on it

[SvenONE]

I don't deep strike with them for the same reason I don't deep strike with terminators, putting them close to enemies that can get to them is risky.  If you're looking for a backfield MM, bring a RWAS/MMAB instead.

 

Back in 6th edition, as a sort of goof game with a close friend I once brought 3 drop pods and a fully loaded RWSS (I had to borrow 3 landspeeders from him because who owns that many!).  The droppods had tactical marines and a fort banner and the full 5 RWSS.  I gave the drop pod the locator beacon and held the RWSS in reserve.  Missed the roll on turn 2 but they came in on turn 3.  I can't remember how I ran them but I think I ran 1 HF/HF, 2 HB/HB and 2 MM/MM. 

 

I think they were really just an expensive fire magnet when I put them that close.  They did ok but Landspeeders are just so frail to be used like that (putting them within range of anything that can shoot them).  With the changes to jink, I think it's too much of a risk to put them in harms way.  You need them to take their shots without being snapshots.

[ValourousHeart]

Back in 6th edition, as a sort of goof game with a close friend I once brought 3 drop pods and a fully loaded RWSS (I had to borrow 3 landspeeders from him because who owns that many!).

What!!! I have 15 speeders in my case and would run 9-10 in every list in 4th edition. I am just now getting back into the game.

 

To the OP I can't advise you on how to best use 1-3 speeders. I never field that few unless we are talking 1k points. And I think I can fit in 4-5 now

 

To quote Brother Captain Vader "Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Angel's land speeders"

 

En mass they are s force of nature.

 

The reason you pod in vets with combi-Meltas is because they can be placed reliably, have a high likelyhood of dealing with that tank, can expect to survive return fire, and want to be in cc.

 

If they come in by rhino they are far less likely to make it there before turn 3-4. And a land raider doubles their cost without getting them there any faster than the rhino.

 

The speeder on the other hand can't make that same claim. What it can do is move twice as fast and shoot twice as far as the vets on foot, and isn't a one hit wonder. Well unless you deep strike it, then if will be a 0-1 hit wonder.

 

Once a speeder hits the center of the board there is no place on a 6 x 4 table that a land raider can hide out of range of the multi-melta. And it only takes one turn to get to the center of the board.

 

So between your bikes, ABs and speeders you can threaten everything on the board on turn one. So deep striking only opens you up to negative consequences with very limited benefit.

 

*edit* spelling and clarity.

[shabbadoo]

In a Duo-wing list, I would Deathwing Assault with multiple Deathwing untis and back them up with a couple Venerable Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods (with a 3rd to arrive soon thereafter); all arriving on Turn 1. Those Drop Pods, which would have Locator Beacons on them, will be the least of the enemy's worries, and the soon to arrive Land Speeders will use them to Deepstrike unerringly.   I would suggest a spaced drop of the first two Drop Pods, with Belial's squad taking position to not only threaten the enemy but to block them from the location where the Landspeeders will show up.  The other Deathwing units should do the same, if possible/practical.  If I had two more Land Speeder Vengeances, I would love to try dropping in 6-8 Landspeeders (I can do at least 6, though I might have two more unbuilt lurking...somehwere), a Darkshroud, and three Landspeeder Vengeances in such a way.  With a Locator Beacon, you can put these models almost exactly where you want to, meaning at the periphery of their range so as to be as far away from enemy units that might be able to assault them (should said enemy untis survive the ALPHA STRIKE that is).  This is one of the few instances where I think the Landspeeder Vengeance would be a worthwhile enough unit for the points.  Of coruse, when you field three of them, it is all the more likley that, even when firing the large blast, you will roll a 1 on the Gets Hot roll and it will not only take a Glancing Hit, but not fire its main weapon as well.  Even still, it is a rather threatening weapon to point at anything relying on armor saves to stay alive- especially if you point three of them at an enemy who likely didn't have a chance to counter them.

 

Other configurations would work as well, and the main point is that Deepstriking Landpseeders, of whatever type, will be much better off if they have other untis running interference for them because they are just too vulnerable to assualt.