luthhero Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Hey everyone. So I am a longtime player that quit about 4-5 years ago and just got back into the game. I was able to obtain a nice sized Militarum force in time for a league. I know so little about them so I wanted to ask for some help in constructing a 1000pt list for the upcoming Escalation League. Here is what I have: Commissar Pask in a Demolisher 2 other LR with changeable Weapons 2 Wyverns (magnetized to be hydras) Hellhound Valkeryie Tempest Platoon 2 Troop Platoons Special Weapons galore! I'm not even looking for an exact list but some pointers or some combinations that would work well. I like how the army can be built in Modules with the platoons which is why I picked them up. I thought about running the Tank commander as the HQ but any thoughts or opinions would be most welcome. Thanks in advance for any ideas or thoughts! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Welcome back! That's a great start but in my opinion Pask isn't at his best in the Demolisher. For me it's either the Punisher or the Executioner. Rerolling Gets Hot Rolls are very nice. Team him up with a Vanquisher. Which gives them Preferred Enemy is a great 1-2 punch. Take the Vendetta over the Hydra for you anti-air and keep your Wyvrens. Do you a Platoon Command Squad for you troopers? Because Pask is named I think you have to take him as your Warlord if not then I'd consider getting a Company Command Squad. For 1000 points you're looking good though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3996863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
luthhero Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 I do have the platoon command squad! I do not have a company command squad though. Which is sad because sitting them in a chimera is what I would like to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3996880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Welcome to the Guard, Trooper! Let some of these guys give your list a whirl and you'll be killing the enemies of mankind in no time! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3996887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Welcome back! It is a hard habit to break. As for your list, what is your local meta like? What kind of shenanigans do you expect to see from your opponents? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3996899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Welcome back to the fold! Looks like you've got a good start here, let me take a stab at it: I'd start with Pask in something other than a Demolisher for your HQ; Punisher is my favorite. Give him sponsons (not heavy flamers). You will need another LR for his squadron; any variant is fine, but an Eradicator (to save points) or a Vanquisher is a great choice. Pask as your Warlord is fine, because the Preferred Enemy he gives his squadron is an amazing rule. For troops, an Infantry Platoon is a good idea if you've got at least four squads to Combined Squads up; I prefer to take flamers and autocannons for mine. Use the basic Commissar (since he's so cheap) in the Combined Squad and you've got a heck of a brick unit to hold objectives. Don't waste a lot of points on the Platoon Command Squad. Do you have any Chimeras? A squad of Tempestus Scions with 2 meltaguns will fit nicely in the Valkyrie, though you could try converting it to a Vendetta (or proxying, if your group is cool) for extra punch. Finally, leave the 2 Wyverns as is (because they're awesome) unless you have significant problems with aircraft. You'll need to fall back on the Valkyrie/Vendetta if that comes up, but it's not a bad plan. Try posting a list in the Astra Militarum Army Lists section! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3996972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
luthhero Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 Awesome thanks so much guys for chiming in! I will have a finalized list up in the army list section in the next few days after I get everything in the mail. I sadly don't have a chimera (though I may pick one up) and I like the Tank Commander HQ a ton. I'll keep everyone post as I get to painting and playing here in the next week. Our Escalation League starts the 18th So its gonna be really interesting seeing how thing go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3996983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Love pask in a vanq. Give him a Vanq wingman and use the split fire rule. You have a decent chance of taking out two pieces of armor a turn. Once they are done with that MC's and just plink at whomever. A litte suicide melta for back up and nearly all your AT is covered (depending on your meta of course). Punisher always eats enough of a squad for me rending isn't needed. Statistically better than Vanq at killing other tanks I know........But for me its the 72" range. I can reach out and touch you anywhere. No need to risk my tank. Just my 2cents Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3996996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Welcome back to the hobby. I would start with Pask in a punisher with heavy bolters and a heavy stubber. give him a vanquisher wingman and let loose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3997002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmo Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 A warm welcome from the Commissariat. Mess tent is to the left, a little further down are the accommodations. Behind us is the Departmento Munitorum to make sure you are fully kitted out and to the right is the Parade ground along with the execution area for the terminally misadjusted... Enjoy your time here with this great bunch of guardsmen who are always keen to offer newbies advice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3997010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Welcome to the B&C and back to the Guard! :D The codex is a bountiful thing so you can do much with it, but generally a hybrid army is a good default. A mix of tanks and troops does well and you can build up a bit of experience necessary to run infantry or tank heavy lists. How much work have you don on your models, do you have a colour scheme for them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3997337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Welcome back! That's a great start but in my opinion Pask isn't at his best in the Demolisher. For me it's either the Punisher or the Executioner. Rerolling Gets Hot Rolls are very nice. Team him up with a Vanquisher. Which gives them Preferred Enemy is a great 1-2 punch. Take the Vendetta over the Hydra for you anti-air and keep your Wyvrens. Do you a Platoon Command Squad for you troopers? Because Pask is named I think you have to take him as your Warlord if not then I'd consider getting a Company Command Squad. For 1000 points you're looking good though. Shenanigans! I guess he's okay in the plasmacutioner, as long as there are terminator squads to kill, but there's a real problem with the punisher. Mathhammer says the punisher is going to be the best anti-tank version of Pask, but the only way to do that is to shove him into the enemy's face, where he's extremely vulnerable with his paltry 3HP...you've left out my version, the Pasquisher. In a vanquisher, he basically auto-penetrates AV14 with AP2...sure, he still gets a crew shaken/stunned result half of the time, but he's also a prime candidate for a hull lascannon in that tank, and there's no reason not to give his wingman a hull lascannon, too...in fact, in my game yesterday against tau, everything was either 2+ or in ruins, so pasquisher's wingman only ever fired his lascannon, helping to ensure that longstike died without getting a shot off and stripping 2HP from a riptide. In 26 games, Pasquisher has died (surrendering the "slay the warlord" VP) only twice...that alone is worth quite a bit, and it's certainly a claim that punisher pask can't make! I'm actually thinking of one or two vanquisher wingmen for Pasquisher...against monstrous creatures, having four extra S8/9 AP2 preferred enemy shots would be nice, and against AV14....look out! Welcome back to the hobby. I would start with Pask in a punisher with heavy bolters and a heavy stubber. give him a vanquisher wingman and let loose. Ugh...worst possible combination!!!! Wastes the range advantage of the vanquisher while giving the vanquisher BS3 and still forcing Pask to endanger himself if he wants to do any good! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3997817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Haha, I smiled at "Pasquisher" I'm glad this is a thing now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3997865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Welcome back to the hobby. I would start with Pask in a punisher with heavy bolters and a heavy stubber. give him a vanquisher wingman and let loose. Ugh...worst possible combination!!!! Wastes the range advantage of the vanquisher while giving the vanquisher BS3 and still forcing Pask to endanger himself if he wants to do any good! I would beg to differ. I have had some success with this combo. The split fire order lets me pop enemy armor while Pask wipes out squad after squad with 32 shots, 20 of which are rending. Plus Pask in a punisher is a nasty surprise for those who want to tango with my tanks. And while BS3 is a pain, it's not as huge a pain as everyone makes it out to be. At least in my experience. Plus with a 14/13/11 AV not much is gonna be able to hurt my punishers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3998148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I would beg to differ. I have had some success with this combo. The split fire order lets me pop enemy armor while Pask wipes out squad after squad with 32 shots, 20 of which are rending. Plus Pask in a punisher is a nasty surprise for those who want to tango with my tanks. And while BS3 is a pain, it's not as huge a pain as everyone makes it out to be. At least in my experience. Plus with a 14/13/11 AV not much is gonna be able to hurt my punishers. You are permitted to differ Anything that can hurt Pask in a vanquisher in the back corner of my deployment zone is going to have an easier time killing him in a punisher out in the middle of the table. If by melee, it's obviously easier to get to him, and if by shooting, it's dramatically easier to get side shots, which is a monumental difference. Of course, my use of Pasquisher is in the context of 2 demolishers and maybe an eradicatior pushing towards the enemy. Funnily enough, Pasquisher has died on me twice in 26 games (in both of those, I was basically tabled...grr!), but those demolishers...they kill a crap-ton of dangerous stuff while forcing the enemy to fight on his half of the table, far away from my warlord...but they die all the time. It's a rare game where both of them survive. That suggests to me that "not much is gonna be able to hurt AV14/13/11" is a bit of a stretch... They're your toys, play with them however you want. I'm just pointing out that when you have short-ranged guns, you have to get close to kill anything, and getting close means giving the enemy ample opportunity to kill you in return. To me, the greatest thing about a tank commander is that he's much harder to kill than a company command squad or a T3 independent character with cardboard body armor. Giving back some of that advantage by voluntarily choosing a tank type that has shorter range than most antitank weapons baffles me. That's also the problem that I have with the vanquisher squadron mate...he's in more danger, yet 0% more effective, at close range. That tank type belongs buried in a corner where it can leverage its 72" range to snipe at big stuff without risking return fire, or at least minimizing it. Dragging it within 24" of the enemy is not something that you'd do voluntarily, you're being forced into it by squadron rules...with a heavy 1 turret. If I'm going in close like that, I want a tank that's killing more than one model a turn with its main gun. Maybe an eradicator to deny cover saves? That would pair well with punisher pask. Or even a demolisher? Sure, mathhammer says Pask will grind off enough hull points to gut a land raider, but relying on statistical averages will get you killed...a S10 ordnance pieplate would seal the deal while giving you effective split fire options no matter what infantry you're facing...but a vanquisher? Really?!? A vanquisher in any squadron with a 24"-range tank is the worst possible combination...it has nothing to do with it being Pask's squadron! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3998257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefzilla Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I've been most successful with Pask in a Punisher with a Vanquisher wingman. Split fire is awesome. I always give Pask a hull mounted lascannon for that extra punch. Hell yesterday my opponent dropped a heinous surprise in Abboddon and 3 Obliterators deep striking next to my armored formation. After taking both a Hellhammer round and a Demolisher round to the face it was Pask in the Punisher that finally wiped the galaxy of the fowl traitor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3998590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Yep...punisher pask with his 29-32 shots has the volume of fire to do about anything he wants...my point is that if you're within 24" of the enemy, the 72" range of the vanquisher cannon is completely wasted, and you're probably wishing you had a turret weapon that wasn't heavy1. Vanquishers are for attack by fire or support by fire, from range. Assault elements like the punisher are completely incompatible...it's like putting a flamer and a lascannon into the same squad...the flamer is useless outside of 8" range, and the lascannon is useless if you move even 1" AND horribly inefficient against flamer targets. I'm not entirely against punisher pask, he's the second best version, what I'm against is mixing single shot long range antitank tanks in a squadron with point-blank anti-troop tanks. If you have to get the squadron across the centerline (and, if the punisher is going to do its job, you do!), then you're almost immeasurably better off replacing that vanquisher with just about anything! You don't benefit from the vanquisher cannon's 72" reach if you're in the enemy's face, and at that close range, you have better options no matter what your target is. BS3 heavy 1 is HORRIBLE for a leman russ variant...the only thing that saves it is being far far far from the enemy, presenting AV14...getting in close and probably presenting AV13 without increasing your offensive potential is...daft. If you're that close, might as well take a better turret! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3998978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I actually use sponson MM on my Pask/Punisher, alongside a Lascannon. Since his special rule only gives Rending to the Punisher Gatling Cannon, I think he gets more mileage out of having full anti-tank on his backup weapons, especially given the feebleness of heavy bolters in a 7th edition environment. But there's not a wrong way to take Pask, from my experience; just those more optimal to certain army builds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3999082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I can see your point. But maybe it's just the way I use him. As odd as it sounds, I use Pask in a punisher to support my Vanqs. While the vanqs are making troops foot slog across the board. Pask is mopping up anyone else in range. Think you'll deep strike and take out my vanqs? Pask says "Denied". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305526-new-player-joining-the-ranks/#findComment-3999124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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